Tile Claims Apple's Anticompetitive Behavior Has 'Gotten Worse, Not Better'

[omihek]

"Tile should make a better device"

Exactly how are they gonna do this when the ability to locate devices is entirely dependent on a user mesh network that Apple no longer allows to exist? I guarantee you, when Apple's bluetooth tag comes out, it's going to work, 100%, the same way Tile's does, in that users' iOS devices anonymously update the location info for the Apple tag the way the Tile app did in prior years.

Maybe Apple will actually resolve this issue. They could have an update in iOS 14 that allows apps to share non-user location data, by requiring a user data disconnect at the API level and also. User-paired bluetooth devices cannot be synced to their servers, but non-user-paired bluetooth devices with their own Vendor ID can. I really doubt Apple will go through the trouble, though.

But at the end of the day, the App Store walled garden problem will still be there. I'm 100% okay with people deciding that Apple's App Store is where 100% of their software purchases should go; I just wish that was a choice they were making and not one Apple was making for them.

That's the risk companies like Tile take when they build a business model that 100% relies on someone else's business. What if iPhone case-makers tried to legally stop Apple ever releasing a new phone design, saying that it would kill the case-makers current business? I hope we can all agree that would be pretty ridiculous, yet that's essentially what Tile and others keep trying to do.

And as for Apple's "walled garden," if it's a problem for software is it also a problem for hardware? Should we start demanding that Apple build a physical port on the phone so we can plug an Xbox or Playstation controller in the way we want instead of being "forced" to use Apple's choice of bluetooth? Maybe we should demand a physical ethernet port while we're at it, since some people probably don't like Wifi?... Here's the thing, Apple gets to decide how they build their own stuff, hardware AND software. Anyone who doesn't like it... doesn't have to buy Apple's stuff. It's pretty simple yet people keep whining about it for some reason.

 

[Karllake]

That's the risk companies like Tile take when they build a business model that 100% relies on someone else's business. What if iPhone case-makers tried to legally stop Apple ever releasing a new phone design, saying that it would kill the case-makers current business? I hope we can all agree that would be pretty ridiculous, yet that's essentially what Tile and others keep trying to do.

And as for Apple's "walled garden," if it's a problem for software is it also a problem for hardware? Should we start demanding that Apple build a physical port on the phone so we can plug an Xbox or Playstation controller in the way we want instead of being "forced" to use Apple's choice of bluetooth? Maybe we should demand a physical ethernet port while we're at it, since some people probably don't like Wifi?... Here's the thing, Apple gets to decide how they build their own stuff, hardware AND software. Anyone who doesn't like it... doesn't have to buy Apple's stuff. It's pretty simple yet people keep whining about it for some reason.

I see the point you’re trying to make but I feel this is different. The anticompetitive element is the use of the u1 chip and api, which I don’t think Apple intendeds to share at this point, as a consumer I own the u1 chip once I buy the phone and should be able to use it, it’s like the iPhone having 8gb of ram but only Apple apps can use all 8, all other developers can only use 4. This would be front page news.

regarding tile, I hope they and all data mining businesses go out of business ASAP, tile isn’t worried about user experience with Bluetooth ‘always on’. If they were they’d clearly stated that ‘always on’ data would never be sold. Then people might use the feature. Good riddance! Apple need a new approval ‘always on, no data mining’ this way the user get the best experience without being watched.

 

[BvizioN]

Give it a rest. There are a hundred other weather apps and APIs on the planet. 99.9% of the planet never heard of Dark Sky until Apple bought it.

Exactly!!
I never heard of this app and I would probably never heard off it if it wasn't purchased by Apple. So much drama about a weather app.

 

[kstotlani]

Acquisitions have been happening for decades in tech. Look at Word Lens. This is an opportunity for Tile to double down and make something innovative, different or better than what they already do.

They did make something innovative which Apple is now copying

 

[Donnacha]

Tile was by far my worst tech purchase. I love the idea but it never worked as it was supposed to. Complete waste of time and money.

Apple's most "anti-competitive" behavior is that they will probably do it right and produce a product that works.

 

[gnasher729]

Give it a rest. There are a hundred other weather apps and APIs on the planet. 99.9% of the planet never heard of Dark Sky until Apple bought it.

I never heard of Dark Sky until it was reported on MacRumors.
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and that's the definition of anti-competive and anti-consumer.

Make it so hard for 3rd party that their customers flock to you.

Well, absolutely not. Providing a better product, providing a cheaper product, putting out more advertisements, are all _competitive_ and not anti-competitive.

I can compete with Mike Tyson in the boxing ring. It will be a very painful experience, but I can compete. That's competitive. Unless someone keeps me out of the ring, that's anti-competitive.

Tile can absolutely compete with Apple. They may not be successful, that is competing and losing, which is part of competition. It's not anti-competitive to beat your competitor.
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They did make something innovative which Apple is now copying

Which is exactly what competition is all about. You make something, a competitor makes a better version.
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Doesn't matter if Tile sucks or not. Is Apple doing what Tile is accusing them of? When Apple releases their own version of Tile, will it have location services alway on?

To be precise: Is Apple doing what Tile is accusing them of, and is that something that is against the law?

 

[KidAKidB]

I get the feeling this won’t end well for Tile.

Why not? Apple is once again showing how it gives itself a leg up over competition.
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Alternate headline: Company complains that competition and a free market will lead to them losing business

No? They're complaining that Apple competes against them with a huge leg up and doesn't allow for open competition.

 

[Puppuccino]

I’m not surprised, Tile would complain as they want more money.

🙄

 

[Exorthium]

I have a Tile and I cannot wait to make the switch to 'AirTags'. I don't want Tile to have 24/7 access to my location so I have that turned off, including background app refresh. Every time I open the Tile app I get 3-4 pop-ups asking me to turn those features on. Including notifications from the app itself. Honestly makes you think how desperate they are for you to turn those settings on.

I only use it to track my keys when I misplace them in my house. I do not want constant notifications about turning on location services for their app.

 

[Romeo_Nightfall]

Alternate headline: Company complains that competition and a free market will lead to them losing business

it’s not a free market - it’s a duopoly and tech has very strict supply chains which make it even harder to compete against the big companies.

Same with software Facebook and YouTube just steal any innovation which comes and use it on their platform.

Same for Microsoft with teams against slack, has already overtaken just by pure platform power!

 

[YoungsteR001]

I really happy with the fact apple wanted to enter this industry as I been using Tile for the longest time and been disappointing that they had to take away important feature and needing us to subscript in order to get it back. Such as notification when you leave your item behind. Since that, my tile like useless. I keep forgetting my wallet and my key and lost just like that. If Apple in this industry. It means better features are await for us!

 

[MauiPa]

Tile should learn how to use "settings", not that hard really.
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it’s not a free market - it’s a duopoly and tech has very strict supply chains which make it even harder to compete against the big companies.

Same with software Facebook and YouTube just steal any innovation which comes and use it on their platform.

Same for Microsoft with teams against slack, has already overtaken just by pure platform power!

it is not an innovation if someone just comes up with a logical extension of use. If it is so, innovative, they can patent it. Hell just contact a troll, they patent anything. Like using light to read. Now that is a broken system needing fixing. But if Tile can't patent their idea, then pretty much it is not innovation, just incremental development

 

[Kabeyun]

I disagree, at least as far as competing with Tile. I'm a (was) a Tile user and it absolutely sucks.

Enthusiatically agree. And it drains batteries faster than high beams on a parked car.

But Apple do not compete with Tile.

Yet. It’s coming.

How is NOT COMPETING in the android market anti-competitive? I’m pretty sure all the competing android weather apps would strongly disagree with your logic.

App-wise, true. But I think the beef is that platform-wise it’s anticompetitive by making Android less appealing. Which of course is horse hockey. As if Dark Sky were to only app in existence not to be on both platforms.

Tile still complaining about a product that hasn't even been released I see.

Continue throwing a temper tantrum instead of improving your product guys.

Precisely. And we don’t even know how Apple will implement their locating gadget. Maybe “Always allow” will return when it debuts. Or maybe there will be some other answer I’m sure Tile will have access to. If they fail, it’ll be because they’re inferior, not because they’re asymmetrically locked out. And we should absolutely expect them to be whining about it as they go down.

and that's the definition of anti-competive and anti-consumer.

Make it so hard for 3rd party that their customers flock to you.

You’re incorrect and have no idea if this is true. Once 1. Apple’s “Air tags” come out, and 2. Apple selectively cripples Tile, then we can all wring our hands about anticompetitive behavior. Until then, disabling “Always Allow” is a privacy-focused setting I approve of, and I for one won’t lose a microsecond of sleep if it inconveniences Tile, Inc.

 

[PlayUltimate]

it’s not a free market - it’s a duopoly and tech has very strict supply chains which make it even harder to compete against the big companies.

Same with software Facebook and YouTube just steal any innovation which comes and use it on their platform.

Same for Microsoft with teams against slack, has already overtaken just by pure platform power!

None of those companies you mentioned started in a vacuum where competition did not exist. Each of them had to start from scratch and "win" in the business world. Facebook was not the first social platform (MySpace?!?). Google was not even close to the first search engine. Apple was late to the game as a cellphone manufacturer. Same thing could be said for Microsoft (TI/Commodore/IBM/Apple). Granted one could argue that today is different. But did anyone really think that Apple would be this successful in the phone business, when it was first announced, when it was competing against Nokia and Blackberry?

 

[MacBH928]

not sure what Anti-competitive means, but, my OS my rules. The real truth is that we need a 3rd and 4th and even 5th platform when it comes to smartphones and even personal computers.

 

[sugargliderdude]

Tile is going to go bust once Tag comes out.

 

[ersan191]

"Tile should make a better device"

Exactly how are they gonna do this when the ability to locate devices is entirely dependent on a user mesh network that Apple no longer allows to exist? I guarantee you, when Apple's bluetooth tag comes out, it's going to work, 100%, the same way Tile's does, in that users' iOS devices anonymously update the location info for the Apple tag the way the Tile app did in prior years.

Maybe Apple will actually resolve this issue. They could have an update in iOS 14 that allows apps to share non-user location data, by requiring a user data disconnect at the API level and also. User-paired bluetooth devices cannot be synced to their servers, but non-user-paired bluetooth devices with their own Vendor ID can. I really doubt Apple will go through the trouble, though.

But at the end of the day, the App Store walled garden problem will still be there. I'm 100% okay with people deciding that Apple's App Store is where 100% of their software purchases should go; I just wish that was a choice they were making and not one Apple was making for them.

You do understand that mesh location is like maybe 10% of the actual use case of Tile. The other 90% is locating your keys in your own house or when you are out, which Tile has always been underwhelming at - because it is a mediocre product.

And since they finally stopped making their devices disposable they decided to paywall essential features behind a subscription. I have no sympathy for them and they deserve what is coming.

Apple could give Tile access to the entire UWB stack and to their whole iOS mesh network and their product would still fail - because it won’t be anywhere near as good.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Whine, whine, whine. Make a better product and people will use you. Quit whining that Apple does your products better than you.

 

[Abazigal]

Regardless of whether Apple is treading into risky anti-competitive behaviour, I am still in favour of Apple releasing their own tile-tracker variant.

For one, Tile's hardware / software experience is simply not great. The last time I used them, I had a lot of issues. Frequent disconnects, significant battery drain, interference with other bluetooth devices, and the install base was just too low for the geolocation to be of any benefit. Apple is in a better position to released a more polished product due to their control over hardware, software and services, and the end user ultimately benefits from a superior user experience.

It would be ironic if the numerous support tickets raised amongst tile users was what brought this to Apple's attention in the first place and made them realise that there was money to be made in this market.

Second, Apple has a really compelling privacy/encryption story for the Find My functionality. Basically, they use a key that is unique and changing for every device so even if you can see all the pings in the real world, even Apple can’t tie that back to a user. I expect nothing less from Apple. In fact, it was so compelling and so well thought out that when I saw this article, it basically hinted at airtags.

https://www.wired.com/story/apple-find-my-cryptography-bluetooth/

Tile is still using old-fashioned bluetooth.

Third, Tile is simply at a huge ecosystem disadvantage compared to Apple, who can afford to do many of the things a tile tracker does, but for free. No matter how many tiles are sold, it's still a drop in the bucket compared to every iOS device running iOS 13 and every Mac running Catalina.

I also suspect that airtags will make more sense with Apple's continued push into AR.

Either way, I can't wait for it to be released.

 

[Tech198]

You know what Apple should do? The important settings and privacy based ones should be available to add to control center.. I guess there is a valid reason why they are not..

Don't wanna make it too easy for otters when they steal your phone do we.

 

[gnasher729]

not sure what Anti-competitive means, but, my OS my rules. The real truth is that we need a 3rd and 4th and even 5th platform when it comes to smartphones and even personal computers.

"My OS my rules" does not work. If Apple used this to prevent competition, that would indeed be anti-competitive and illegal. If Apple uses the fact that they have some really good iOS developers, that's competing. If Apple uses the fact that they have some pretty good hardware developers, that's competing. If Apple uses the fact that they have a good idea what people want and what sells, that's competing.

"Anti-competitive" is something that stops people from competing. Competing yourself and beating competitors is not anti-competitive, quite the opposite.

 

[Marli]

If Tile wants to make a better product no one is stopping them. But they have spent years with zero innovation, coasting on their disposable “toner cartridge” business model.

You obviously havent seen a tile device in few years..

 

[trainwrecka]

I would like to use Tile, but it rarely works. I'm one of those that does NOT have my location set to always. I don't need Tile draining my battery and knowing where I am constantly. Some people might, but not me. I have my Tiles attached to items in my house or things I really only lose in my house (remote, wallet, keys). I used to be able to open Tile, ping the device, and BAM! Found the missing item. Why was my wallet in the coffee table drawer? No one knows. Now when I open Tile - even with my wallet right next to my Phone - it says it cannot find the item. At sometime in December-ish, they wouldn't let you find things unless you had "Always Track Me" set.

In other words, this has become a useless product for me. I think I've owned 5-8 Tiles over the years. I cannot wait for AirTags.
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If Tile wants to make a better product no one is stopping them. But they have spent years with zero innovation, coasting on their disposable “toner cartridge” business model.

You obviously havent seen a tile device in few years..

Correct - the Tile devices have gotten better and better in terms of life and looks.

 

[hortod1]

Tile if you truly feel this way then produce better products. Remember competition drives innovation.

Agree. I like the idea of Tile but the UI is horrible. Would certainly let Apple have a crack at helping me find my keys

 

[kimmen]

"anticompetitive behavior"??? I call it competitive behavior!

You don't see Coca Cola making room in their trucks for Pepsi, do you Tile?