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I totally agree, and when someone goes through all that trouble to obtain all that data from all those sources year after year, I'm sure they were just collecting it for the hell of it and had no means of decryption..

Anything can be brute forced eventually. Collect everything now - go back and decrypt it if you later think it's worthwhile to do so.

Plus over time you'll get faster computers. So today's computer will take 16 years to decrypt it, for example, but in 8 years they'll have a computer that only takes 1 year to decrypt it. So hold onto the data now so you can have it decrypted in 9 years.

Or, you never know, any day we might reach the point where quantum computers can decrypt anything quickly.
 
You are not correct.
Apple has a deal with Facebook that lets Facebook read through your iPhone Contacts, and the only way to prevent this is to not install the Facebook app.

If you pick ten strangers at random out of a phone book from North Dakota or Birmingham, England, and add them to your iPhone Contacts, the Facebook app will eventually ask if you want to friend one of those people, assuming one of them is on Facebook. There is no Opt Out for that.

It sounds as if Facebook is worst the the old AOL mailed disks! Heck if I really think about it Facebook IS the new AOL! :D
 
Microsoft openly admit their system scans data in the cloud users place there, looking for illegal items.
I presume keywords/phrases and images (children?) as they openly say, they do not wish to become a secure storage location for illegal activities. Perhaps say terrorists, extremists of other countries, and perhaps child abuse things and images, and of course, they would not wish to be known as a safe place to store these things.

What is Apple's standpoint on this?
Do Apple admit to scanning data and images for such sick/illegal documents or images, or is Apple's standpoint that they never check what's there, and no one else can see what's their either as it's always secure?

To be honest, Tim Cook just looks smug, and put over a nice guy image.
And yet, for some reason, I simply don't trust him.
I think he is too nice, to the point that is looks false, like an act he must be putting on.
I'd rather see an honest guy less than perfect, telling you less than perfect things, that listen to him and thinking it's an act for the media, just saying what he knows we want to hear.

Sorry.
 
Microsoft openly admit their system scans data in the cloud users place there, looking for illegal items.
...
What is Apple's standpoint on this?

Do Apple admit to scanning data and images for such sick/illegal documents or images, or is Apple's standpoint that they never check what's there, and no one else can see what's their either as it's always secure?

Yes, Apple scans content placed in iCloud. It was first figured out when emails with certain phrases couldn't get through. Apple said it's for anti-spam purposes, which is a major reason why most companies automatically scan emails.

As MacWorld pointed out at the time, the TOS for iCloud includes this paragraph:

You acknowledge that Apple is not responsible or liable in any way for any Content provided by others and has no duty to pre-screen such Content. However, Apple reserves the right at all times to determine whether Content is appropriate and in compliance with this Agreement, and may pre-screen, move, refuse, modify and/or remove Content at any time, without prior notice and in its sole discretion, if such Content is found to be in violation of this Agreement or is otherwise objectionable.

- Apple iCloud Terms and Conditions

Are there any cloud services that don't have such legal terms these days, though?
 
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That small side project generates an estimated $500 million a year. So yeah, relative to Apple's profit, it's pretty insignificant. The topic isn't financial relevancy. It's privacy. Apple collects and uses the same types of customer information that Google uses. Like Google, they use that information to, among other things, sell advertising. I know this to be a fact because Apple tells you that in their privacy policy. They don't sell your info. Neither does Google. To do so would be incredibly stupid. The other argument I see is "Google collects more info". Most likely they do. Partly due to their scope, partly due to their collection mechanisms. That doesn't diminish the massive amount of data Apple collects and uses. Both companies have similar privacy policies. Apple, smartly, figured out a way to use it as a marketing advantage.

Bothe Apple and Google sell advertising but the characteristics are very, very different. Google correlates everything they know about you from the sites you visit, what's in your email, and so on. Apple does not. It doesn't read your email (scanning for viruses and spam doesn't count here) or track your web browsing history from Safari etc. I believe, although I'm not 100% sure, that iAd uses an anonymized identifier and does not link any ads to your AppleID or other personal information.

Apple certainly does collect massive amounts of information. But a lot of it is not personally-linked, and is used to improve products etc. As an example, I read recently of Apple's practice with regard to route data in Maps. Obviously, Apple knows where your trip starts and ends, and the route selected. But it does not keep all this. Instead, it breaks the trip into two, separate halves. And then it lops off the start and end points (unsure how much of the trip they throw away) so it no longer knows the exact trip. And this is the data that Apple saves for improving Maps.
 
That small side project generates an estimated $500 million a year. So yeah, relative to Apple's profit, it's pretty insignificant. The topic isn't financial relevancy. It's privacy. Apple collects and uses the same types of customer information that Google uses. Like Google, they use that information to, among other things, sell advertising. I know this to be a fact because Apple tells you that in their privacy policy. They don't sell your info. Neither does Google.

There are two very important differences here and you have managed to not notice either of then.

First: I agree that neither Apple nor Google directly sells your information. But Google does sell indirect access to everything it has collected about you by targeting ads to you based upon that knowledge. And, through the magic of cookies, that info may well leak to the advertiser even though there is no direct disclosure.

Apple does not base its advertising (as far as I can tell) on any personally-identifiable information such as your search history or email. Please correct me, with links if possible, if this is not correct but I believe that it is.

Second: selling ads is not Apple's primary business. It seems to me that the main purpose of iAds is to support developers - who get 70% of the revenue (I believe that Apple gets the standard 30% as with iTunes and App Store, for running the service). Apple does not need to sell ads in order to stay in business, Google does. So Google needs to keep collecting info about you to justify itself to advertisers. Apple doesn't, so doesn't collect the info and/or does not correlate it with you as an individual. Big difference. Very big difference.
 
Yes, Apple scans content placed in iCloud. It was first figured out when emails with certain phrases couldn't get through. Apple said it's for anti-spam purposes, which is a major reason why most companies automatically scan emails.

As MacWorld pointed out at the time, the TOS for iCloud includes this paragraph:



Are there any cloud services that don't have such legal terms these days, though?


"Apple reserves the right at all times to determine whether Content is appropriate and in compliance with this Agreement, and may pre-screen, move, refuse, modify and/or remove Content at any time, without prior notice and in its sole discretion, if such Content is found to be in violation of this Agreement or is otherwise objectionable. "

Thank you so much for pointing this out for me.
I personally accept any companies need to do this.
However, cutting thru Tim Cooks statements on TV.
This clearly shows that what NORMAL People think Apple does, based upon what Tim "Carefully" says, and The reality of what Apple does, based upon their official statement.
Are indeed two VERY different things.

Like me saying. LOUD on TV, I collect your parcels, and I keep them private and have no means to look inside them even if I wanted to.
Whilst, behind the scenes, my own company policy is.... If I decide (based on nothing) that I think there may be something interesting inside any of your parcels, I reserve the right to open any of them up and take a look.

Basically, the PUBLIC Statement it a well and carefully crafted lie, to make normal people think their data is 100% secure when it's not as the company is saying, in small print it can and will take a look at any time it pleased.

I wish Tim Cook would say this publicly, rather than, doing, what he knows he's doing, which is carefully using words to try and distort the meaning to your average consumer.

Honesty is far better.
 
This clearly shows that what NORMAL People think Apple does, based upon what Tim "Carefully" says, and The reality of what Apple does, based upon their official statement.
Are indeed two VERY different things.

It almost always is two different things. One of the pieces of corporate "DNA" that Jobs instilled in Apple (and Cook) is a constant use of misdirection and word crafting, to make people think they claimed something that they really did not. And it works astonishingly well.

First: I agree that neither Apple nor Google directly sells your information.

Correct.

But Google does sell indirect access to everything it has collected about you by targeting ads to you based upon that knowledge. And, through the magic of cookies, that info may well leak to the advertiser even though there is no direct disclosure.

Apple does not base its advertising (as far as I can tell) on any personally-identifiable information such as your search history or email. Please correct me, with links if possible, if this is not correct but I believe that it is.

Apple bases its advertising on our location, demographics, media interests, and media/app purchase history. Anything that's in common can be used to come up a personal match.

Of course, advertisers used to use our personal Apple advertising identifier to easily match us up, so Apple added that semi-bogus "Disable Ad Tracking" button. However, it simply sets a flag to tell the app developer that he shouldn't use that identifier to track us. It does not create a hard stop, though, as the identifier is still quite visible. Most people don't know this.

Not that it matters anyway. When the id was disabled, advertisers starting building a iOS MAC address id table a few years ago. If you use the same device with multiple apps, you're nailed.

As for email, AI recently reported that... to help boost iAd sales... Apple has offered "a new (iAds) initiative that will enable third-party ad providers to help advertisers target specific consumers "by matching phone number, emails and other data," ... The system is similar to Facebook's ad targeting practices, which matches data from ad providers with anonymized user information and other helpful metrics."

Second: selling ads is not Apple's primary business. ...

Doesn't matter. It shows a willingness to use their customer's information to sell ad space, just as Google does.

Apple likes to claim that their customers are not their product, but that's demonstrably false, because they advertise iAds as being a gateway to their customers. Heck, Apple originally wanted a minimum of a million dollars ad purchase, based solely on the supposed quality of their target audience. You can't get a better example of a customer being a product.

Or maybe you can, as iAds is just the tip of the Apple information iceberg. Apple also hides behind indirect info sales to make money off their customers:

For years, Apple accepted over a billion dollars a year from Google just to let it be a default iOS search engine. Google collected data while Apple profited from it. Apple points at Google as being evil, while getting a kickback. That's customer pimping at its finest.

Apple Pay is the most recent example. They get a fee in large part to keep purchase data flowing freely to the banks. (Plus, the Apple Pay contract requires the banks to kick info back to Apple, such as where most purchases are made.) Thus Apple can publicly claim that they get no info DIRECTLY from the purchase, but they carefully avoid mentioning that Apple Pay is being used to collect more money and data for both the banks and Apple.
 
Much more importantly, what's with the suit? :D
Every Apple exec has a good series of suits. Steve Jobs had an extensive collection of designer suits he wore when needed. One story goes Steve hired Giorgio Armani to personally measure and make a suit for him in the 80's.
 
Every Apple exec has a good series of suits. Steve Jobs had an extensive collection of designer suits he wore when needed. One story goes Steve hired Giorgio Armani to personally measure and make a suit for him in the 80's.

Jobs also used to wear a $2,000 Porsche watch in the early days.

According to a VP at the time, Jobs kept a box of them in his office. If a visitor admired the watch, Jobs would casually take it off his wrist and give it to them. Then he'd replace it later that day from his stash.

Ah. Nothing like being a young, single, millionaire :)
 
There are two very important differences here and you have managed to not notice either of them.
Either that or the differences aren't really there.

First: I agree that neither Apple nor Google directly sells your information. But Google does sell indirect access to everything it has collected about you by targeting ads to you based upon that knowledge. And, through the magic of cookies, that info may well leak to the advertiser even though there is no direct disclosure.
It's great to find common ground. You know who else has common ground? Apple and Google. They both use targeted ads and cookies. You should really read the privacy policy. What you think Apple does and what they really do aren't really the same thing. May I again suggest you read this: http://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/

Apple does not base its advertising (as far as I can tell) on any personally-identifiable information such as your search history or email. Please correct me, with links if possible, if this is not correct but I believe that it is.
How about this: "You may be asked to provide your personal information anytime you are in contact with Apple or an Apple affiliated company. Apple and its affiliates may share this personal information with each other and use it consistent with this Privacy Policy. They may also combine it with other information to provide and improve our products, services, content, and advertising." So that we're clear, "they" is Apple and affiliates, "it" is your personal information, and "advertising" is advertising. Just in case you think that's a little vague, further down in the privacy policy there's this: "We also use personal information to help us create, develop, operate, deliver, and improve our products, services, content and advertising, and for loss prevention and anti-fraud purposes." There's that word again - advertising.

Second: selling ads is not Apple's primary business. It seems to me that the main purpose of iAds is to support developers - who get 70% of the revenue (I believe that Apple gets the standard 30% as with iTunes and App Store, for running the service). Apple does not need to sell ads in order to stay in business, Google does. So Google needs to keep collecting info about you to justify itself to advertisers. Apple doesn't, so doesn't collect the info and/or does not correlate it with you as an individual. Big difference. Very big difference.

Your second point lacks relevancy. The topic is privacy and advertising. Whether one company needs advertising and the other doesn't is irrelevant. They are both using the same types of information to do the exact same thing.
 
Jobs also used to wear a $2,000 Porsche watch in the early days.

According to a VP at the time, Jobs kept a box of them in his office. If a visitor admired the watch, Jobs would casually take it off his wrist and give it to them. Then he'd replace it later that day from his stash.

Ah. Nothing like being a young, single, millionaire :)
Know a local semiconductor sales guy who has one of those Porche watches tonthisbday.
 
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