Tim Cook and Japanese PM Kishida Discussed User Privacy, Digital 'My Number' IDs, and More

[3304614]

It mandatory now in JAPAN, especially if you are a foreigner living there. They are working toward having it like a social security number like in the U.S.

It is not mandatory (not mandatory for foreigners and not mandatory for citizens). It is optional. The fact that it is not mandatory is why you see so many incentive programs to encourage people to get the My Number Card. You wouldn’t need to incentivize people with ¥20,000 (plus an additional ¥5,000 and (I think) ¥3,000 for secondary incentive programs) if it was already mandatory. The Japanese government definitely wants everybody to get the My Number Card, but the government hasn’t made it mandatory.

 

[japanime]

It mandatory now in JAPAN, especially if you are a foreigner living there. They are working toward having it like a social security number like in the U.S.

Not mandatory. Not yet, anyway.

 

[loby]

This would have nothing to disuade what's already been started with the EU and now Japan considering - forcing Apple to comply with what they want:

Implement 'our' choices for wallet
use a connection standard (which works for current times and may soon change in less than 10yrs)
^ recall USB-A 1.0, then 2.0 is the oldest PC standard. And remember MicroUSB is still used across a few headsets, portable speakers etc. Many laptops STILL use USB-A as a standard. Then we have the fun of USB3.1/3.2/3.2 SuperSpeed and now USB-C. Of which the majority of Android phones use USB-C connection but the speeds, data connectivity differ VERY widely amongst Android phone competitors. Not to mention charging speeds.

This is NOT what a standard is (that EU is pushing). This is offered for food of thought to the conversation herein this article.

Again setting up a manufacturing hub in Japan will not disuade the Japanese government to force Apple to use Japan's My Number identification cards in their Wallet OR force Apple to use a nationwide App to implement their standard regardless of Apple's own concerns over security.

So unless Cook can fluently Read/Write/Speak Japanese and anyone in their Security team can to fully go over their documents and compare over global IT security standards and effectively communicate their concerns directly in a conversation and show as a test in real time without a translator ... few visits and conversations over Zoom may not change Japans course of action. Remember Japan has 49% implementation rate currently amongst their citizen's.

No average Japanese person is using floppy disk technology from the 1970s. Most everybody here (I’m in Japan) is using USB flash drives, SSDs, SD cards and cloud storage just like people in ’Merica are. That article is about government organizations still using old technology systems. Which is an issue of America and any other country as well (it is not unique to Japan).

Fax machines are technically still in use, but it is not because of individual people wanting to use a fax machine or not knowing how to use more modern tech. It is more because some government and businesses still require the use of fax machines for sending documents and such (though less so every year). I worked for a Japanese company from 2011-2015 that required workers to submit certain documents monthly by fax. When I asked if I could just scan it and email it to the company, I was told their procedures weren’t setup to receive those documents by email. There was no technical reason why we couldn’t use email or another means. It was just company procedure to use fax. I would need to go down to the convenience store at least once a month to use their fax machine there. But I haven’t needed to send a fax in years now. I am sure there are a few holdout companies, but sending faxes isn’t a daily occurrence for the average person in Japan.

As for older people and new technology, there isn’t really any difficult tech associated with the My Number Card (from the user prospective). The My Numbers Card allows for people to use the card with more technology, but it isn’t a requirement.

And getting the My Number Card is just a quick trip to City/Town/Village Hall. It is possible to be in and out with the card in your hand in 10 minutes (depending on how busy they are, of course). It about as difficult as getting any other form of government ID here. Actually… getting a My Number Card was significantly less difficult (in my experience) than getting my Japanese drivers license renewed.

Renewing a Japanese drivers license… now that is an absolute pain to do, lol. It is comically-incomprehensible to get a Japanese drivers license renewed (but not because of any tech reasons… just normal bureaucracy reasons common to any country).

You have not received your mandatory letter yet. Just wait, you will.

 

[3304614]

You have not received your mandatory letter yet. Just wait, you will.

I think you quoted the wrong reply there. If you meant to quote my reply about the My Number Card card not being mandatory… that’s simply the truth. It is not mandatory. The Japanese government very specifically made it not mandatory. It isn’t accidentally optional. It is not mandatory on purpose.

As for me personally, I definitely won’t be getting any “mandatory letter” now or in the future. And that’s simply because I got my My Number Card years ago. It is not a big deal for me. I know it is a bigger deal for some people… but that’s fine and part of the reason why it isn’t mandatory.

 

[japanime]

You have not received your mandatory letter yet. Just wait, you will.

Yes, we probably will receive our mandatory letters. When the card itself is mandatory. Which it isn't yet.

And truthfully, it won't bother me when it is mandatory. I already have the number itself. I just haven't bothered to get the physical card because, frankly, it's kind of a pain to do so.

 

[loby]

It is not mandatory (not mandatory for foreigners and not mandatory for citizens). It is optional. The fact that it is not mandatory is why you see so many incentive programs to encourage people to get the My Number Card. You wouldn’t need to incentivize people with ¥20,000 (plus an additional ¥5,000 and (I think) ¥3,000 for secondary incentive programs) if it was already mandatory. The Japanese government definitely wants everybody to get the My Number Card, but the government hasn’t made it mandatory.

Just wait mattoruu...you will get you letter sometime.

 

[3304614]

Just wait mattoruu...you will get you letter sometime.

I already replied to your other post, but I’ll copy and paste my reply again here if you happened to have missed it above:

If you meant to quote my reply about the My Number Card card not being mandatory… that’s simply the truth. It is not mandatory. The Japanese government very specifically made it not mandatory. It isn’t accidentally optional. It is not mandatory on purpose.

As for me personally, I definitely won’t be getting any “mandatory letter” now or in the future. And that’s simply because I got my My Number Card years ago. It is not a big deal for me. I know it is a bigger deal for some people… but that’s fine and part of the reason why it isn’t mandatory.

 

[loby]

Yes, we probably will receive our mandatory letters. When the card itself is mandatory. Which it isn't yet.

And truthfully, it won't bother me when it is mandatory. I already have the number itself. I just haven't bothered to get the physical card because, frankly, it's kind of a pain to do so.

Since you already have it, you will not know it is now mandatory. 🙂

It is not "verbally" mandated (yet), but they are working it into procedures and certain functions (like financial) within the country where if you don't have it, then you cannot get something done, or it is delayed or you have to go through a 'lot of hoops' and hazels just to get it accomplished. A convenient way to get people to just "give-in" and get the ID. without declaring it mandatory. They know how to do it. 🙂

In a demanding increasing world where data is at the center of existence, it makes logical sense to have a standard (though I am not a fan).

Japan sees this as a way to do it. Again, not a fan of it, but that is where the world (in every country) is going. It is the progression of a now tech world. We just have to live with it.

 

[ArmCortexA8]

Too expensive. Many Japanese companies have actually moved production offshore for this very reason.

What a load of b.s. - Im sick to death of hearing this same excuse for over 30 years despite the cost of production reducing constantly. This is the default response to try to shut people down. Remember most electronics are produced by automatic machines as they are not made by hand and therefore the labour cost is minimal. How can an automated robot have a labour cost? Anyone who repeats this same response has no idea on economics or the corrupt financial system and bear in mind most components for the iPhone are not from one manufacturer. Apple could easily get these assembled in Japan with the same components via Foxconn / HonHai.

 

[ArmCortexA8]

Sounds like a Japanese version of the Chinese social credit score - just a different version.

 

[ArmCortexA8]

I'd love to see that.

But I wonder if Apple customers would be willing to pay a noticeably higher price for phones and computers for them being assembled/tested/fullfilled/supply-chain-managed in Japan.

I know that many here would get major case of the shakes from the price increase.

Again more b.s. Most electronics are assembled via robotics which has no labour cost and no doubt Apple would use Foxconn / HonHai as an assembler as they have for years - it would just be another facility based in Japan but operated / build by they same company and these big companies get tax incentives / discounts to build and operate in most countries. Again stop repeating the “too expensive” misinformation as this is false and is used as an excuse not challenge where products are made, but to simply accept without question.

 

[citysnaps]

Again more b.s. Most electronics are assembled via robotics which has no labour cost and no doubt Apple would use Foxconn / HonHai as an assembler as they have for years - it would just be another facility based in Japan but operated / build by they same company and these big companies get tax incentives / discounts to build and operate in most countries. Again stop repeating the “too expensive” misinformation as this is false and is used as an excuse not challenge where products are made, but to simply accept without question.

Thank you. It sounds like you have a ton of direct experience and knowledge regarding high volume (600,0000+ phones per day) consumer device manufacturing, supply chain management, fulfillment, etc.

Please write Tim Cook a letter letting him know about the myriad options available to more economically manufacture Apple's products. No doubt Apple and its managers have never analyzed other options and can benefit from your expertise to drive down manufacturing costs in different parts of the world.

 

[ArmCortexA8]

Thank you. It sounds like you have a ton of direct experience and knowledge regarding high volume (600,0000+ phones per day) consumer device manufacturing, supply chain management, fulfillment, etc.

Please write Tim Cook a letter letting him know about the myriad options available to more economically manufacture Apple's products. No doubt Apple and its managers have never analyzed other options and can benefit from your expertise to drive down manufacturing costs in different parts of the world.

Step 1. Build / construct the same type of Foxconn / Hon Hai assembly plant as in other countries in Japan.
Step 2. Produce / assemble iPhone’s the same as done in other factories owned by the same company.

It’s not rocket science. Apple would simply use the same process in Japan itself which would also save on shipping costs from locations further away. Remember these companies get tax credits and other financial discounts to operate these massive facilities as with every other country they operate in. In addition a facility in Japan would also work in tandem with other facilities around the world. This new facility would be associated with the already existing supply chain measures - it would simply be another piece added to the puzzle. Robots don’t have a labour rate / hourly rate so this cannot be used as an excuse and the “too expensive” response is unacceptable and used as a method to shut people down.

 

[citysnaps]

Step 1. Build / construct the same type of Foxconn / Hon Hai assembly plant as in other countries in Japan.
Step 2. Produce / assemble iPhone’s the same as done in other factories owned by the same company.

It’s not rocket science. Apple would simply use the same process in Japan itself which would also save on shipping costs from locations further away. Remember these companies get tax credits and other financial discounts to operate these massive facilities as with every other country they operate in. In addition a facility in Japan would also work in tandem with other facilities around the world. This new facility would be associated with the already existing supply chain measures - it would simply be another piece added to the puzzle. Robots don’t have a labour rate / hourly rate so this cannot be used as an excuse and the “too expensive” response is unacceptable and used as a method to shut people down.

Sounds like a plan. Will you present it to Tim Cook and help get Apple on the right track with respect to high-volume manufacturing?

 

[loby]

I think you quoted the wrong reply there. If you meant to quote my reply about the My Number Card card not being mandatory… that’s simply the truth. It is not mandatory. The Japanese government very specifically made it not mandatory. It isn’t accidentally optional. It is not mandatory on purpose.

As for me personally, I definitely won’t be getting any “mandatory letter” now or in the future. And that’s simply because I got my My Number Card years ago. It is not a big deal for me. I know it is a bigger deal for some people… but that’s fine and part of the reason why it isn’t mandatory.

Sorry, a tech issue with the browser reloading. 🙂.

Yes, it is not technically mandated on purpose (as is it wise not too), but instead..it is becoming more difficult NOT to have the ID (for various reasons); so it makes practical sense to just get the ID and call it a day. The Japanese Government has more concerns right now than worrying about getting their citizen's personal information or "Big Brother watching activity" etc., so this ID is more of a practical necessity than imposing control etc.

But on the topic, there is a difference between "not mandated" and "it is suggested" meaning it is implied that you do. It depending on what side of the globe and culture you are in and its interpretations. "Mandated" is a word that gives no options as most (especially in the U.S.) don't like. But when it comes to interactions or transactions that cannot be done without having it..it really becomes an "unspoken" mandate. No need to make a law etc.

Again, it is really not a big deal, but it still is what it is..

 

[svish]

Apple should continue to invest in supply chains outside China

 

[CarAnalogy]

In case this is news, just about every country has a national ID card, SS number, passport or identity paper. You can't have a functional advanced economy without it.

As far as Apple is concerned I don’t see much difference between this and driver’s licenses in Wallet. I don’t know much about the Japanese system but it sounds similar to a driver’s license, not technically required but practically required. I would trust Apple at least as much as a government system as far as security.

The whole issue of government identity papers is really separate. It already exists, why not let Apple implement a good version of it?

With a nick like ponzicoinbro I’m surprised you haven’t sarcastically suggested blockchain as a solution 🙂

 

[WWPD]

Designed by Apple in California. Assembled in Japan. I would love to see that.

That or Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand. Time to move away from China.

 

[3304614]

Sounds like a Japanese version of the Chinese social credit score - just a different version.

It’s absolutely not. Not even close. It’s just an ID card that is not even required by the government (if you don‘t want it, you don’t have to get it). You have to actively seek it out if you want it. If you don’t want it, it doesn’t prevent you from doing anything. The My Number Card is an added convenience for those who have it. But if you are happy with how things were before the My Number Card, you can just continue on as normal.

 

[3304614]

Sorry, a tech issue with the browser reloading. 🙂.

Yes, it is not technically mandated on purpose (as is it wise not too), but instead..it is becoming more difficult NOT to have the ID (for various reasons); so it makes practical sense to just get the ID and call it a day. The Japanese Government has more concerns right now than worrying about getting their citizen's personal information or "Big Brother watching activity" etc., so this ID is more of a practical necessity than imposing control etc.

But on the topic, there is a difference between "not mandated" and "it is suggested" meaning it is implied that you do. It depending on what side of the globe and culture you are in and its interpretations. "Mandated" is a word that gives no options as most (especially in the U.S.) don't like. But when it comes to interactions or transactions that cannot be done without having it..it really becomes an "unspoken" mandate. No need to make a law etc.

Again, it is really not a big deal, but it still is what it is..

What have you tried to do that requires the My Number Card? I can’t think of anything that would require the My Number Card (while not allow for a different form of ID to be used instead).

You don’t need it for opening a bank account (at least not any bank account that I’m aware of). I opened a new account few months ago and there wasn’t even an option for me to use my My Number Card as my ID for opening the account. I had my My Number Card, but they didn’t want that as my ID to open the account. They instead wanted front and back copies of my residents card, as well as a second form of identification such as a utility bill in my name, or a residence certificate from city hall or whathaveyou — I suppose to confirmed that I lived at the address where I said I lived. My drivers license functioned as my second form of ID.

That only thing (that I can think of — if there is something else, please let me know) that you absolutely need the My Number Card for is the bonus money you get through the various My Number Card sign-up incentive programs. Which, of course, makes perfect sense. You need to sign-up to get the sign-up bonus. And if you don’t sign-up, you don’t get the sign-up bonus. Lol

 

[midtown]

I wonder if Apple could develop a manufacturing base in Japan. Japan is an ally of The West and has manufacturing talent from Toyota and other brands.

Japan is also in proximity to other manufacturing hubs in Southeast Asia, and would likely be a great place to continue to lessen the reliance on Chinese manufacturing.

Developing a manufacturing base is one thing and running it is another. I think anyone who has idea of labor (and other associated costs - electricity, water, availability of raw materials/components/equipments, logistics, real-estate etc.) cost in this place vs any other nearby countries, would very easily know that it won't make much sense. Lessening of reliance on Chinese manufacturing can't be handled at the skyrocketing cost of its products which will again reduce its sales. Probably, better idea could be prepare a similar cost zone competitor in future.

 

[midtown]

Linking the My Number cards to less personal info could encourage more people to use them too.

There will always be people who don't want their govt to so easily collect data on and track them.

This My Number card seems like a bad idea to me and I don't think I'd want one either.

I will tell you except banking and health insur info, all other info are already available and visible by our eyes on those ID cards, in majority of advanced countries. name- ofcourse there, photo - ofcourse there , date of birth - there, address - there, if foreigner - nationality, visa type and validity period there. So what else is the risk in bringing this into secured wallet app? Moreover, info in wallet app is not secured, really? I trust all my credit cards and etc. which are way more sensitive to put in there, but not these info?

Only 2 additional info i see here are:
1. health insurance - personal opinion - good to have it -- just visit any clinic/hospital and you don't need to bring any other certificate/card - also, already this info clinic staff easily pull up from centralized databse, just by showing ur ID card to immediately make ur fee ZERO or DISCOUNTED based on your insurance policy- so how is this risk - instead i see it is convenient - you don't need to file a claim separately to insurance co. when you return back from clinic to home and remember you are already not feeling well (thats why you went to clinic) too - isn't it convenient to get all of fee settled right there at the reception desk within 60sec before leaving clinic.
2. bank info - to this point i disagree, it should not be included as this info can vary based on person's age (child - no risk, mid or old age - more risk based on whether person is common person or millionaire)

 

[Mr. Dee]

Persons worrying about governments collecting data about you is very redundant. It’s the ‘government’, they already know everything about you.

Millions of people willingly migrate to the US every year and they willingly volunteer information to either get a visitors visa or join family.

How do you expect a functional society to work if there is no idea who is in it? That means anyone can move in and take your job and use your social services.

Identity is important. The problem is when it’s misused. But how often is that done with your passport or social security number? You can bet when those stimulus checks were up for grabs how many of you privacy conscious individuals quickly filled out that form with all the details the government needed.

 

[japanime]

Since you already have it, you will not know it is now mandatory. 🙂

1) I never said I have the My Number card.

2) The card is not "now mandatory."

 

[HMFIC03]

This shows an ignorance of not only citizen databases which every advanced country has, but also of Japan's culture.

It should be well known by now that Japan has a very aged population and many of the old generation aren't bothered to use new technology. They are still using floppy disks and fax machines.

Japan’s Digital Minister is going to war against floppy disks and fax machines

Taro Kono wants to end the government’s stubborn reliance on outdated tech.

www.engadget.com

Have lived in Japan for last two years and it is 50/50 on places that take credit cards vs Yen only still. Can’t tell you how many times I’m told they don’t take Apple Pay when they do have NFC terminals that allow it..constantly blowing people’s minds when I use my Watch to pay.