Tim Cook Calls Apple's Tax Avoidance Accusations 'Total Political Crap'

[MH01]

That is complete and utter nonsense. Tax avoidance is by definition legal. It's the definition of "avoidance" vs. "evasion": If it's legal it's tax avoidance and if it is illegal it is tax evasion. You seem to be talking about incorrectly reporting your income, which is a totally different matter, and not only the tax office but also the SEC would be after Apple if that happened.

Your talking nonsense. You don't understand how complex tax avoidance can be.

Tax avoidance ranges from simple legal deductions, to intricate schemes . If the tax office disagrees with your tax return they can take you to court over your tax avoidance, if you loose , and happens , your pay interest and penalties. Schemes are challenged in court all the time.

Tax evasion , you purposely do not declare income. = illegal , worst case possible legal conviction

Tax avoidance , you declare all your income, but setup schemes to take advantage of loopholes in the tax system you believing are right, and within the law to minimize the taxes you pay. Tax office reviews your return, they disagree with you and send you a notice saying your scheme is not valid , with a debt. You challenge thier accertions, as you are legal allowed to, stating you case. You both go to court, win or loose, it's legal, but you either owe them more money, or your avoidance was successful. Worst case you pay extra tax.

 

[tgara]

And while I don't pay more taxes than I owe, I do the ethical and consistent thing: I advocate for higher taxes on the rich (including me) and corporations. If the policies I espouse are passed, I will pay the higher rates. I don't go around saying that tax breaks for the rich and corporations are good things, and I certainly don't go around saying that any discussion of the ethics of taxation and tax avoidance is inherently politicized and off limits. I am quite consistent in my behavior. Our bridges and schools are crumbling, the poverty rate is increasing, and middle-class incomes have stagnated for a generation. The only way to fix this is with more taxes (we've tried the cut-and-grow approach for 30 years, and that's what got us here). Only an idiot thinks the "government" keeps the money -- every cent is spent. The people who think the government should spend less generally have no idea what the government spends money on.

This is bizarre. You say in one breath that you won't pay more than you owe, but advocate for higher taxes so the govt has more money to spend. If you're so concerned about this and want the govt to have more money, why not simply hand over more than you owe? Put your money where your mouth is, pal.

Also, the notion that simply giving the federal government more money is going to fix any of the problems you mentioned is simply idiotic. The issue is that once you give the money to the govt, there is no guarantee that they will spend it on things that need fixing, like roads and bridges. In all likelihood, its going to get wasted on stupid projects like bee mating habits, studies on internet dating, or the impact of cow farts on the ozone layer. The fraud, waste and abuse in the government spending generally is rampant and costs taxpayers about 25% of the total budget. Just this year, the government took in record amounts of cash, but our infrastructure is still in dire straits. Why aren't our SJW members here screaming about that? I say not one dime more to them until they get smarter about spending the money we already give them.

 

[jimbobb24]

Today's reasonable and thought out exceptions are tomorrows "loopholes". Our corporate tax rates are too high. Clearly hurting our competitiveness and forcing jobs and money overseas. Sad.

 

[diazj3]

... and Apple's tax avoidance schemes, and Cook's comments, are total corporate crap.

 

[paulsdenton]

Someone may have already cited this opinion by Judge Learned Hand, but it applies perfectly to this situation:

• Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes.
  • Helvering v. Gregory, 69 F.2d 809, 810-11 (2d Cir. 1934).

This opinion has pretty much been the established legal precedent in these types of situations.

If you do a search on the case citation, among the results is an excellent background and commentary by MA Chirelstein; contained in the digital commons archive of the Yale Law School.

 

[usarioclave]

If you feel that Apple should pay more in taxes than they should, then you should pay more in taxes as well.

Just fill out the box on the form.

Learned Hand FTW!

 

[sransari]

Is Apple tax haven legal? Yes. Is it immoral? Yes.

You got it backwards. It is not immoral to keep money that you've earned, but it is immoral to take someone else's money that they earned and you didn't

 

[thewitt]

Today's reasonable and thought out exceptions are tomorrows "loopholes". Our corporate tax rates are too high. Clearly hurting our competitiveness and forcing jobs and money overseas. Sad.

The US has confiscatory tax policies.

Anyone working overseas is double-taxed.

Corporations who earn overseas are penalized if they try to spend that money at home.

The basis of this appears to be in the class envy and corporate hate culture continually reinforced by those politicians who benefit most from divisive politics.

Hatred and envy of success never built anything. It's time the people wake up to this and support success.

 

[blahblah100]

They should have to pay 30% of all REVENUE (not profits)... just like the App Store.

The fanboys always say to critics of Apple - "if you don't want to play by Apple's rules, then go somewhere else."

Apple - if you don't want to pay the US tax rate - then go somewhere else! I hear India (or Syria maybe?) is great this time of year...

 

[JimmyHook]

They should have to pay 30% of all REVENUE (not profits)... just like the App Store.

The fanboys always say to critics of Apple - "if you don't want to play by Apple's rules, then go somewhere else."

Apple - if you don't want to pay the US tax rate - then go somewhere else! I hear India (or Syria maybe?) is great this time of year...

They do follow every tax law. Please explain in detail, and cite the relevant statutes, where you believe they don't.

 

[JimmyHook]

All the haters should pay more than what the law requires they owe.

 

[blahblah100]

They do follow every tax law. Please explain in detail, and cite the relevant statutes, where you believe they don't.

Please explain in detail and cite the relevant text in my post where I said they are not following every tax law.

If Apple taxes App Store developers 30% of REVENUE for using their "infrastructure" (by force), then they have zero grounds to complain about fair and unfair when it comes to taxes.

 

[furi0usbee]

Do you know how many people that company employs in Ireland???? You know nothing if you claim those folks do nothing, and you are insulting those hard workers.

LOL. OK Tim. I know Apple only employs people there as a "front" because it's a tax haven. Nothing they do in ole' Ireland can't be done in the janitor's closet in Cupertino. Ireland... that's funny. Apple really has the luck of the Irish though by saving bank in taxes.

Yeah, HUGE stuff they got going on there...

http://fortune.com/2013/11/01/on-site-at-apples-famous-irish-headquarters/

 

[lordofthereef]

No one else does.

Not really sure what you man by this. Are you referring to no other countries Persuing this? Because I was merely stating a fact, not justifying it. The US is looking for ways to fight the outsourcing fight. Taxes are one of those possible ways. Whether I agree with it or not doesn't change that.

 

[MH01]

All the haters should pay more than what the law requires they owe.

Why? Is this debate too difficult for you to follow? No one is asking anyone to pay more..... Keep the toys in the pram.

 

[JimmyHook]

Please explain in detail and cite the relevant text in my post where I said they are not following every tax law.

If Apple taxes App Store developers 30% of REVENUE for using their "infrastructure" (by force), then they have zero grounds to complain about fair and unfair when it comes to taxes.

They don't force anyone to do that. Only devs who voluntarily publish in the App Store. Don't like it? Don't develop for iOS

 

[JimmyHook]

Why? Is this debate too difficult for you to follow? No one is asking anyone to pay more..... Keep the toys in the pram.

Several are suggesting that Apple should pay more, even though the law doesn't require it. Why voluntarily give more money??? That's ridiculous

 

[nebo1ss]

The US has confiscatory tax policies.

Anyone working overseas is double-taxed.

Corporations who earn overseas are penalized if they try to spend that money at home.

The basis of this appears to be in the class envy and corporate hate culture continually reinforced by those politicians who benefit most from divisive politics.

Hatred and envy of success never built anything. It's time the people wake up to this and support success.

Actually you are wrong about people being double taxes by working overseas. The way it actually works is you pay tax in the country in which you are working and you also file a US tax return and claim credit for the tax you pay in the overseas location. Net effect is that you are paying US taxes.

 

[MH01]

Several are suggesting that Apple should pay more, even though the law doesn't require it. Why voluntarily give more money??? That's ridiculous

This whole argument of tax AVOIDANCE is lost on you.

Not A Single Person is saying Apple should pay MORE than EXPECTED of them. Apple is choosing to pay LESS.

And Yes its within the LAW....but that is the whole idea/concept of a Tax Haven and tax avoidance.

To turn around and say that people questioning Apple should pay more than what is expected is plain childish and missing the point of the discussion.

Heck, you can also legally discriminate in the workforce (male/female director positions), does not stop all the hardcore fans from praising Cook when he pretends to care about those social issues, though come tax time, he considers it ridiculous... people are just calling out his BS. Usually ones moral compass is not selective based on profits.

 

[MH01]

The US has confiscatory tax policies.

Anyone working overseas is double-taxed.

Corporations who earn overseas are penalized if they try to spend that money at home.

The basis of this appears to be in the class envy and corporate hate culture continually reinforced by those politicians who benefit most from divisive politics.

Hatred and envy of success never built anything. It's time the people wake up to this and support success.

Incorrect, no US citizen is double taxed. Its a Double taxation treaty, not double tax.

Have a read.

http://www.uk-yankee.com/articles/us-tax-guide-americans-living-uk

 

[Rogifan]

This whole argument of tax AVOIDANCE is lost on you.

Not A Single Person is saying Apple should pay MORE than EXPECTED of them. Apple is choosing to pay LESS.

And Yes its within the LAW....but that is the whole idea/concept of a Tax Haven and tax avoidance.

To turn around and say that people questioning Apple should pay more than what is expected is plain childish and missing the point of the discussion.

Heck, you can also legally discriminate in the workforce (male/female director positions), does not stop all the hardcore fans from praising Cook when he pretends to care about those social issues, though come tax time, he considers it ridiculous... people are just calling out his BS. Usually ones moral compass is not selective based on profits.

How do you define or determine what is expected? Expected means what? It seems to me you think what Apple is doing should be illegal. If that's the case your beef should be with politicians not Apple. Apple's responsibility is to its shareholders not public governments.

 

[Ironduke]

Dirty Filthy Apple!

Pay your Taxes!

Maybe we should call him Tim Crook

 

[Eraserhead]

Not really sure what you man by this. Are you referring to no other countries Persuing this? Because I was merely stating a fact, not justifying it. The US is looking for ways to fight the outsourcing fight. Taxes are one of those possible ways. Whether I agree with it or not doesn't change that.

I mean most other countries have double-taxation agreements so you don't pay taxes twice.

 

[Eraserhead]

Incorrect, no US citizen is double taxed. Its a Double taxation treaty, not double tax.

I think @thewitt lives in Malaysia or something so he certainly knows the situation there.

But even in the UK it sounds like you have to file your taxes by mid-June even with an extension and interest from April, even though you can't realistically fill in your self-assessment for tax in the UK until around the end of June.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Dirty Filthy Apple!

Pay your Taxes!

They do pay their taxes. A lot of taxes, actually.

And with headlines like "Apple Just Had The Most Profitable Quarter Of Any Company Ever" you can be sure that they've got plenty of eyes watching them like a hawk.