Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Tim Cook Calls Apple's Tax Avoidance Accusations 'Total Political Crap'

Quu

Quu

macrumors 68040
Apr 2, 2007
3,421
6,797
They're avoiding paying taxes that they don't have to pay. Keep that in mind.

They only need to pay the taxes if they bring the money back to the USA which they are under no obligation to do. There are no laws demanding US based companies keep all their money in the USA.

So everything they're doing is lawful. Money made in the USA stays in the USA. Money made outside of the USA is kept in Ireland. Simple, nothing illegal about it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrxak, abunawas, tooloud10 and 6 others
J

JimmyHook

macrumors 6502a
Apr 7, 2015
952
1,789
The top tax havens:


Ireland, where Apple operates its Euorpean operations, ranks number 47. 47. Saying they are dodging taxes is ridiculous. I know that people read stories and in an effort to sound smart they parrot what they read with fake outrage, but at least do some basic research first. The US ranks 6. Apple pays more here for their operations, where they earn the most profit, than they pay anywhere else. They pay EXACTLY what they owe in Europe. If you have evidence to the contrary, post it:
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrxak, diegogaja, DesignerOnMac and 4 others
M

Mr D

macrumors 6502
Oct 11, 2007
349
179
If anybody here is against Apple -

Would you be doing something differently to pay MORE taxes in his position? If so, you'd be fired your first day on the job.

Not that any of the opposers are qualified - or even close to it. You are probably an employee too.

The idea is to make money - and keep as much as possible within the laws.

Morals? Immoral? You'd better check on your wife - she's probably screwing another man because your beta male qualities.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrsir2009, mrxak, OLDCODGER and 1 other person
flottenheimer

flottenheimer

macrumors 68000
Jan 8, 2008
1,530
651
Up north
yadmonkey said:
Amazing how many feel entitled to the labors of others. I dare any of you to earn a fortune and then hand over 40% to the Fed when there are tax loopholes that will help you avoid it. It's unreasonable and you'd be daft not to exploit those loopholes. Any of you would do the same.
Click to expand...

I own and run a business.
I pay 43% in tax on all income. 43%. On. Every. Single. Dime.

—If every business used the tax-avoidance tactics of multi-national companies, most countries would collapse.

 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bigredhunk, daftpunker909, Caesar15 and 9 others
zachlegomaniac

zachlegomaniac

macrumors 6502a
Sep 20, 2008
806
370
AliMacs said:
I'm going to have to side with Apple, Inc. on this one. Why let America TAX apple for all their revenues? Screw that. All those billions will just fill up those snake politician wallets. America cannot even understand how to budget anything financially. Trillions in debt and it just gets worse. Why let the USA have all that cash money. It's like throwing money in the lake.
Click to expand...

I certainly don't have billions, but shouldn't this philosophy apply to anyone who pays taxes in the U.S., then? A third of my salary every year going into a college fund for my child would be much better than in the lake.

Please understand I am not disagreeing with you, but trying to gain some clarity on your perspective.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: morrisz
W

writingdevil

macrumors 6502
Feb 11, 2010
254
32
AppleInLVX said:
OT, but is it me, or does Tim look like he's gaining weight?
Click to expand...
I assume it's only you. Don't think most people are following a CEO's weight with great scrutiny...unless it was seeing Marissa Mayer adding some pounds before her pregnancy was announced. She is so easy on the eyes.
 
Unami

Unami

macrumors 65816
Jul 27, 2010
1,358
1,564
Austria
JimmyHook said:
Explain to me why you believe that profits earned overseas, that are taxed overseas, should be taxed here as well???
Click to expand...

i don't believe that. i don't think, they should be taxed in the u.s., they should be taxed according to the country where the revenue is generated, not in a tax haven like ireland. it's not apple's fault, that ireland created those tax exemptions to attract big international companies to help it's failing economy 20 years ago, and that this is still legally possible here in the e.u. (although our politicians are supposedly working on stopping that) and you can't blame apple too much for using every oportunity they can to save money.

but you can accuse them of gaming the system, greed, going where they can keep the most money to themselves and giving the least to everybody else. ironically, that's just the same as accusing someone of gaming the social system and getting something at the cost of others.

btw. saying, it's o.k., because it's legal, doesn't make much sense - just look at any abandoned law from the past that has been legal that is now considered unethical. (e.g. laws in former dictatorships, slavery, nazi-germany,... - that was all perfectly legal back then)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Caesar15, koigirl, vmistery and 3 others
K

Kar98

macrumors 65816
Feb 20, 2007
1,258
884
yadmonkey said:
Amazing how many feel entitled to the labors of others. I dare any of you to earn a fortune and then hand over 40% to the Fed
Click to expand...

Am I not handing over more than 40% of what I earn in taxes every year? Only reason I can't is the US would run me out of the country if I refused. Why am I not doing the same? Oh that's right, I'm not rich enough to have laws written and passed as I want them.

I'm down to two Apple devices, a 3rd gen AppleTV and a 2011 Mac mini. I'm not going to replace them with anything made by Apple.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bigredhunk, Caesar15, dk001 and 2 others
M

Mr D

macrumors 6502
Oct 11, 2007
349
179
flottenheimer said:
Dear Tim,

To use your own tone of voice: That is total crap. Apple pays almost zero tax in most european countries, yet Apple earns a lot of money in every single one of them.
I am fully aware that most other multi-national companies are using the exact same tax-loopholes as Apple. But that doesn't make it right.
Click to expand...

And how exactly does that make it WRONG?
 
  • Like
Reactions: gatortpk
JamesPDX

JamesPDX

Suspended
Aug 26, 2014
1,056
495
USA
AliMacs said:
I'm going to have to side with Apple, Inc. on this one. Why let America TAX apple for all their revenues? Screw that. All those billions will just fill up those snake politician wallets. America cannot even understand how to budget anything financially. Trillions in debt and it just gets worse. Why let the USA have all that cash money. It's like throwing money in the lake.
Click to expand...

Because you used the words "cash" and "money" next to each other, you get a "like" from this forum user. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: T Coma
M

Mr D

macrumors 6502
Oct 11, 2007
349
179
Kar98 said:
Am I not handing over more than 40% of what I earn in taxes every year? Only reason I can't is the US would run me out of the country if I refused. Why am I not doing the same? Oh that's right, I'm not rich enough to have laws written and passed as I want them.
Click to expand...

You should probably reevaluate your understanding of this situation and how your situation relates.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrxak, gatortpk and Wondercow
J

JimmyHook

macrumors 6502a
Apr 7, 2015
952
1,789
Unami said:
i don't believe that. i don't think, they should be taxed in the u.s., they should be taxed according to the country where the revenue is generated, not in a tax haven like ireland. it's not apple's fault, that ireland created those tax exemptions to help it's failing economy 20 years ago, and that this is still legally possible here in the e.u. and you can't blame apple too much for using every oportunity they can to save money.

but you can accuse them of gaming the system, greed, going where they can keep the most money to themselves and giving the least to everybody else. ironically, that's just the same as accusing someone of gaming the social system and getting something at the cost of others.

btw. saying, it's o.k., because it's legal, doesn't make much sense - just look at any abandoned law from the past that has been legal that is now considered unethical. (e.g. laws in former dictatorships, slavery, nazi-germany,... - that was all perfectly legal back then)
Click to expand...
They oversee their entire European operations from Ireland. It's their base of operations, since the 80s. And you really compared paying their European taxes in Ireland, where they operate, to Nazis???????? You have issues.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrxak, diegogaja, CB1234 and 2 others
entropys

entropys

macrumors 65816
Jan 5, 2007
1,234
2,382
Brisbane, Australia
Tax avoidance = illegal
Tax minimisation = legal

Get your tax terminology right people!

What Apple and every other sane company or individual for that matter is doing is tax minimisation.
As a great man once said at a Senate hearing: "of course I minimise my taxes. You people don't spend it well enough for me to give you extra for free".
Also, capital goes where it is loved. Ireland loves Apple's capital more than the USA.

If the USA wanted its companies to bring back foreign earnings they have already paid tax on in the countries earned, including Ireland, it just needs to not tax it a second time. Foreign earnings should be able to go back to your country without being taxed again. Think how the country would benefit from the investments arising from that money. I guess from a politician's perspective that would be no good as they wouldn't be able to divert it to some earmarked boondoggle for some activist votes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrxak, gatortpk, 5105973 and 5 others
K

Kar98

macrumors 65816
Feb 20, 2007
1,258
884
Mr D said:
You should probably reevaluate your understanding of this situation and how your situation relates.
Click to expand...

Oh but it does relate! If I rent a mail box in Ireland and claim I'm not bound to pay taxes in the US, while earning money in the US, you can bet the US would either deport me or throw me into jail. Probably both.
 
N

nebo1ss

macrumors 68030
Jun 2, 2010
2,903
1,695
JimmyHook said:
The top tax havens:


Ireland, where Apple operates its Euorpean operations, ranks number 47. 47. Saying they are dodging taxes is ridiculous. I know that people read stories and in an effort to sound smart they parrot what they read with fake outrage, but at least do some basic research first. The US ranks 6. Apple pays more here for their operations, where they earn the most profit, than they pay anywhere else. They pay EXACTLY what they owe in Europe. If you have evidence to the contrary, post it:
Click to expand...
You need to do some research on this issue if you feel the need to comment on it. Ireland negotiated a sweetheart deal with Apple to bring jobs to the country. They already have one of the lowest corporate tax rates in Europe but the way the deal is structured Apple is even able to avoid this. When an Apple product is sold in UK, Germany, France and many other European countries the income is booked in Ireland and not in the country in which the product is sold. The end result of this is that a loss is generated in almost every country in Europe and a profit is generated only in ireland.

The fact that Apple is not paying any tax in these countries means they are using public services and not paying for them. This practice is not unique to Apple you can include Google, Starbucks and many other US companies.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: jaded-mandarin, Caesar15, dollystereo and 9 others
J

JimmyHook

macrumors 6502a
Apr 7, 2015
952
1,789
nebo1ss said:
You need to do some research on this issue if you feel the need to comment on it. Ireland negotiated a sweetheart deal with Apple to bring jobs to the country. They already have one of the lowest corporate tax rates in Europe but the way the deal is structured Apple is even able to avoid this. When an Apple product is sold in UK, Germany, France and many other European countries the income is booked in Ireland and not in the country in which the product is sold. The end result of this is that a loss is generated in almost every country in Europe and a profit is generated only in ireland.

The fact that Apple is not paying any tax in these countries means they are using public services and not paying for them.
Click to expand...
They do pay taxes in their host countries as well. Every Apple Store across Europe generates revenue and sales subject to taxes in the jurisdiction. Tell me, how is any of this illegal? The government of Ireland granted them the status. Therefore, by definition, it is legal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrxak and gatortpk
G

gnipgnop

macrumors 68020
Feb 18, 2009
2,207
2,970
Quu said:
Money made in the USA stays in the USA. Money made outside of the USA is kept in Ireland. Simple, nothing illegal about it.
Click to expand...

The money is not actually kept overseas. It sits in banks in NYC. Nothing illegal about that, but it's a myth that the money is "outside" the United States. That said, Apple could very easily take into account the 40% tax when planning their operations. It's not like that would prevent them from doing business. They just choose to do it this way because they figure Congress will eventually either hand out another tax repatriation holiday or rewrite the tax laws.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ohio.emt
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom