Tim Cook Calls Apple's Tax Avoidance Accusations 'Total Political Crap'

[Dmunjal]

Once again, spot on! We're stuck and will implode. Some see this, others will never see it until it actually happens. Can't wait to see the look in their faces.

Just like the housing bubble, most in the government had no clue it was happening. They testified that everything was fine and laughed at anyone that said otherwise.

Some people will never learn, their minds are long since closed.

The problem is the debt. And only the debt. We have an exclusive position in US being the reserve currency of the world. The world has to buy our debt to trade oil, commodities, and other products. We have abused this privilege. The only thing that supports this is our ability to project our military power. This is why we meddle in countries in the Middle East to support the petrodollar standard. If the dollar ever stopped being the reserve currency, our debt would immediately become unpayable.

I always get a kick out of teasing antiwar liberals by telling them that our entitlement policies which cause the most debt (because they are mostly unfunded) are forcing us to go the war to protect the dollar as the reserve currency. They usually don't make the connection.

 

[aaronvan]

I always get a kick out of teasing antiwar liberals...

You can still find them? I haven't seen or heard an antiwar liberal since January 20, 2009.

 

[Dmunjal]

You can still find them? I haven't seen or heard an antiwar liberal since January 20, 2009.

Yeah, whatever happened to Code Pink since Obama got elected? Silence in honor of our Nobel Peace prize winner? The one who is now waging more wars than GWB?

 

[samiwas]

It's called AI. Years ago the same thing was said about Deep Blue / Watson. Then it won in chess and Jeopardy. AI is better at finding medical solution for things than humans are.

As for the show, watch a sitcom, they all end up running the same stories, only the faces change.

Most of life is a rerun.

Japan almost has this nailed, it'll be hard to tell human from robot soon enough.

In the meantime, we'll hire ONE human and copy all the results for the next 10,000 shows.

Do you keep a towel with you for all the times you think about mass job loss and humans fighting for survival in a world with nothing left? Because I can only imagine the orgasmic fluids flowing forth.

 

[samiwas]

You can still find them? I haven't seen or heard an antiwar liberal since January 20, 2009.

*raises hand* Don't like wars, and would like to see the department of defense gutted to the core.

 

[zin]

Wrong. A person can be in debt to the point where the payoff time is considered too long. At the current rate that we're paying off the debt, in 100 trillion, billion years, it would still NOT be paid off.

What amount can't ever be paid back? Is there any number that can't be paid back, ever?

It isn't wrong. Debt is being repaid every single day. You don't think things like treasury securities are not repaid to the holders when they expire, do you? Of course they are. If things like treasury securities were never repaid at their agreed interest then nobody would buy them.

Anybody can buy things like treasury securities and you will be paid back with interest when they mature. For instance, you could buy 3 month bonds (just as an example, I don't think they sell these anymore) directly from the Treasury and you will be paid back when they mature. The U.S. Government has never in its history missed a repayment of this type. And as a technicality it can never do so because it controls and owns the currency in which it is denominated.

The dollar value of the debt doesn't matter. It never has done. What matters is the size of your owed debt in relation to your national income.

 

[Dmunjal]

*raises hand* Don't like wars, and would like to see the department of defense gutted to the core.

I'm also antiwar and peace loving. I was absolutely against the invasion of Iraq by GWB as I'm against Obama and HRC and their strategy with Syria and Libya. No matter what the party, the dollar must be protected.

So, how do you feel about our military strategy that only serves to maintain US dollar hegemony? If we didn't have the debt to sell, we wouldn't need to do it.

 

[Dmunjal]

It isn't wrong. Debt is being repaid every single day. You don't think things like treasury securities are not repaid to the holders when they expire, do you? Of course they are. If things like treasury securities were never repaid at their agreed interest then nobody would buy them.

Anybody can buy things like treasury securities and you will be paid back with interest when they mature. For instance, you could buy 3 month bonds (just as an example, I don't think they sell these anymore) directly from the Treasury and you will be paid back when they mature. The U.S. Government has never in its history missed a repayment of this type. And as a technicality it can never do so because it controls and owns the currency in which it is denominated.

The dollar value of the debt doesn't matter. It never has done. What matters is the size of your owed debt in relation to your national income.

Of course it's being repaid. Today. With interest rates at basically zero. My question is what happens when rates return to their historical norm of 5%? We won't be able to pay it then.

This is what caused the housing crisis. Most buyers started out with a low teaser rate which eventually reset and became unpayable.

This won't happen to the US unless we lose our reserve status. But it will happen eventually on our current course.

 

[zin]

Default is bankruptcy. That will not happen. We will make our interest payments unlike Greece because we can print the difference.

But we're talking $1T in interest annually not including the principal. The government spends $4T and takes in less than that in revenue. Where will that come from? The Fed will have to print it. This is what Japan is doing. They are stuck because they can NEVER allow interest rates to go up because their Treasury can't afford the interest. Suppressing interest rates indefinitely makes for a weak economy that eventually implodes on itself. This will be our future, unfortunately.

The U.S. will not default. It cannot default unless it chooses to do so. I really did not expect this simple technicality to be blown so far out of proportion.

The situation you are talking about is being able to issue new debt, not the repayment of existing debt. The Fed just recently raised the federal funds rate to 0.5%. It's not something that will never happen.

 

[samiwas]

So, how do you feel about our military strategy that only serves to maintain US dollar hegemony? If we didn't have the debt to sell, we wouldn't need to do it.

Not familiar enough to comment. I'm more against bombing countries full of people we just don't like in order to keep the war machine going. Maintaining the US dollar, through whatever means that takes (Iraq, Syria, etc etc don't seem to fall into that category) would be part of the core. But that shouldn't cost nearly $1T per year.

 

[1458279]

It's interesting that the things we're talking about is likely the cause of our next war. People keep taking from others with no end in sight. There's no limit to how much a liberal is willing to take from someone else.

Only two things will ever stop a liberal, massive war or running out of other people's money to spend.

 

[Dmunjal]

The U.S. will not default. It cannot default unless it chooses to do so. I really did not expect this simple technicality to be blown so far out of proportion.

The situation you are talking about is being able to issue new debt, not the repayment of existing debt. The Fed just recently raised the federal funds rate to 0.5%. It's not something that will never happen.

It will never default. Agreed.

But answer my question. What happens when interest rates return to historical norms of 5% let alone the double digits we saw in the late 70s? The interest payments will be $1T a year. Where will that come from on a $4T budget. This is simple math.

 

[Eraserhead]

It will never default. Agreed.

But answer my question. What happens when interest rates return to historical norms of 5% let alone the double digits we saw in the late 70s? The interest payments will be $1T a year. Where will that come from on a $4T budget. This is simple math.

Probably corporation tax would rise to cover it.

 

[Dmunjal]

Not familiar enough to comment. I'm more against bombing countries full of people we just don't like in order to keep the war machine going. Maintaining the US dollar, through whatever means that takes (Iraq, Syria, etc etc don't seem to fall into that category) would be part of the core. But that shouldn't cost nearly $1T per year.

Why do we bomb THOSE countries and not the countries in Africa where there is greater genocide?

Because of oil. Oil protects our dollar. It is also why we protect and partner with a country like Saudi Arabia. Even with its reprehensible human rights policies.

Read up. Especially the part about Nixon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar

 

[Eraserhead]

Except that it is, most everyone knows the process. Have a kid, get cash, have more kids, get more cash.

Come to America, get welfare. Get credit, spend it all, file bankruptcy. Lie to the people, get elected, pay off those that gave you money with taxpayers money.

Keeps going because nobody stands up to stop it.

I don't think anyone is stupid enough to lend money to someone with 15 kids.

And the idea that someone would choose to have 15 kids as a sensible life choice is crazy. Having 1-2 kids on benefits might push you up the queue to a subsidised house, but I can't see any reason to continue after that point.

 

[1458279]

I'm also antiwar and peace loving. I was absolutely against the invasion of Iraq by GWB as I'm against Obama and HRC and their strategy with Syria and Libya. No matter what the party, the dollar must be protected.

So, how do you feel about our military strategy that only serves to maintain US dollar hegemony? If we didn't have the debt to sell, we wouldn't need to do it.

I really don't know if we could have done worse if we tried. From about 2000, we've screwed up just about everything. Middle east, economy, and the people are just standing around arguing about who's at fault.

GW passed the Medicare D with no price negotiation. It's just a big mess.
Libya, what a joke that turned out to be. ISIS is now using it as a backup. Hillary dogged that question in the debate... "we had a plan" It's still a FAILURE! The whole thing is a failure.

 

[zin]

It will never default. Agreed.

But answer my question. What happens when interest rates return to historical norms of 5% let alone the double digits we saw in the late 70s? The interest payments will be $1T a year. Where will that come from on a $4T budget. This is simple math.

They won't rise to 5% any time soon so the question isn't valid. On current forecasts with current levels of interest rates, however, the answer is more borrowing. The figure for 2024 from the CBO is a little less than $1 T on current interest rate forecasts for the costs of servicing the debt. On current forecasts, and you may view me as delusional, but I am confident Washington will have passed proper budgets by this point to prevent net debt outlays from rising to those levels at current interest rate forecasts.

 

[Eraserhead]

Why do we bomb THOSE countries and not the countries in Africa where there is greater genocide?

Because of oil. Oil protects our dollar. It is also why we protect and partner with a country like Saudi Arabia. Even with its reprehensible human rights policies.

Read up. Especially the part about Nixon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar

Because the Middle East gets more media coverage.

 

[Eraserhead]

Same could be said with computers driving big rigs or super computers small enough to put in your pocket. Yet here we are... Smart phones by the 100's of millions all over the world.

I don't think anyone really predicted the iPhone.

And it's not clear self driving cars are really a thing, or if they even will be.

 

[Dmunjal]

Probably corporation tax would rise to cover it.

Corporate tax revenue is about $300B. We would have to quadruple it to get $900B more. Effective rates today are about 18%. We would need a 60% effective rate to do what you suggest. Never going to happen.

 

[1458279]

I don't think anyone is stupid enough to lend money to someone with 15 kids.

And the idea that someone would choose to have 15 kids as a sensible life choice is crazy. Having 1-2 kids on benefits might push you up the queue to a subsidised house, but I can't see any reason to continue after that point.

It's not a loan, it's a gift. They know how to work the system for the most cash they can get.

 

[Eraserhead]

Corporate tax revenue is about $300B. We would have to quadruple it to get $900B more. Effective rates today are about 18%. We would need a 60% effective rate to do what you suggest. Never going to happen.

60% isn't so high. Incomes were taxed at 95% at one point.

 

[Dmunjal]

Because the Middle East gets more media coverage.

What an ignorant comment. Did you even bother to read the link? Do you not realize how important oil is to the US economy and our military strategy?

 

[Eraserhead]

It's not a loan, it's a gift. They know how to work the system for the most cash they can get.

Source.

 

[Eraserhead]

What an ignorant comment. Did you even bother to read the link? Do you not realize how important oil is to the US economy and our military strategy?

Why do the Europeans also pay more attention to the Middle East then?