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Tim Cook IS doing something about it - he's speaking out.

Since Tim Cook is going there... As a black man, I find it interesting when I go into an Apple Store that I don't see much black people employed by Apple.

There's this one article stating one manager saying "black employees don't reach management." Now I agree that majority of white people shop in Apple Stores. And, I'm not attacking Apple of being a racist company... But I'd rather it be discussed openly to address the situation.
 
Didn't Apple just "discriminate" by firing a lobbyst who had a different position on gay marriage?
 
A Theocracy would be the federal government dictating one single religion and making it mandatory by law to worship said religion regardless of the respective state laws.

A state passing a law is not even close to a Theocracy.

this law is proof they are certainly working towards such a goal. Indiana isn't the only state pulling this stunt. If you need further evidenceI recommend you look into Rand Paul's recent statements at a prayer breakfast (aka fundraiser)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/03/28/rand-paul-gay-marriage-debate-a-moral-crisis/?tid=hpModule_f8335a3c-868c-11e2-9d71-f0feafdd1394&hpid=z10

"The First Amendment says keep government out of religion. It doesn't say keep religion out of government," Paul said.

scary stuff indeed.
 
Thx!

...and--wow--it's hard to believe that's written in English. Talk about legalese. :p

A lot of people are getting upset over an ambiguous law that they haven't taken the time to read. For if they had, they would see that a lot of the claims being made to the contrary aren't actually in the law.

In my opinion, the law won't stand, as it will be challenged at the state level and struck down, because it is too vague.
 
Is gay marriage (or any marriage for that matter) an "inalienable" right?

Yes. The Supreme Court has already held marriage to me a constitutional right. And next month, when gay marriage goes to the supreme court, they will most likely declare that to be a constitutional right as well. Get used to it.
 
I 100% agree. I live in Indiana and I don't think the law goes far enough. The law should strike down all service reared discrimination laws. You want to give blacks to sit at the back the bar? Fine go ahead. You will be out of business in a week because people won't stand for it. You don't think women like bowling? Fine, you will be out of business in a week.
The fact is, the laws affect only a small number of people and only a smaller number of businesses will actually use them at all. And the majority will boycott the businesses and they will go out of business, it really won't matter in the long run.

I think that you don't understand the degree of separation in this country now.

A bar that refuses to admit blacks would probably succeed and be able to stay in business. The resulting feelings of vindication and state support for their bigotry would, however, inflame the already boiling racial issues in many cities, and we would likely see a return to the days before the Civil Rights Act's passage. (Look at Fox News for example. They win a Florida case that allows them to lie in their reporting, and they are popular as any network has ever been, and are driving huge walls through our society in the process)

These laws appear to be an attempt to protect businesses like the bakeries that have been successfully sued for dumping on gays for their weddings. The one story about the bakery owner that strung along the couple until the day of their service was heinous, and I was very glad someone sued her judgmental tookis. What she did was cruel, and mean spirited, and her bleatings about 'religious freedom' made me wonder what 'god' she worshiped.

The minute any group, or subgroup of our society tries to set themselves above others, there is going to be trouble. Some people will read this as carte blanch to openly discriminate and the people that wrote this, and the other, bills know that.

Mark my words, this isn't going to stop with Indiana, and it's not going to end well for our states, and our society.
 
Good for Tim Cook. This is clearly not a business decision and it might cost Apple financially but as a shareholder I am ok with that. On big issues like that it's more important to do what's right than worrying about the bottom line.
 
As a black man, I find it interesting when I go into an Apple Store that I don't see much black people employed by Apple.

So? That, in of itself, means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

Blacks make up only 13% of the United States population, so 1 out of every 8 Apple employees being black would be on par with the population. How many Apple employees are at a store at one time? 8-16? So, 1 or 2 black employees would be what I'd expect with all things being equal.

And in my Apple Store, there are always 1-3. On the days there are 3 of 15, I think I should complain that Apple is hiring TOO MANY blacks, right? That whites are being discriminated against?

The main thing is - who is APPLYING for a job? Are 1 of 8 qualified APPLICANTS black, and Apple is not hiring the about the same percentage? We don't know.
 
Around the world, we strive to treat every customer the same — regardless of where they come from, how they worship or who they love. -- Tim Cook

That may be true, but it's also Apple's prerogative to act in that manner. Certainly there are counties around the world Apple happily does business and is also silent to government condoned or mandated "discriminatory" laws. There are governments Apple happily does business with where just being gay is a capital offense.

I do believe TC is personally offended by the Indiana law but unless he is going to evenly condemn discrimination in every location Apple does business he shouldn't speak as Apple CEO and bring Apple into the mix. If he wants to speak out as an American citizen, fine. That's his right.
 
Yes. The Supreme Court has already held marriage to me a constitutional right. And next month, when gay marriage goes to the supreme court, they will most likely declare that to be a constitutional right as well. Get used to it.

But this court could strike it down.

We are living in 'interesting times'...
 
So Tim Cook says I can't tell him who he can or cannot 'love,' but HE can tell ME what I can or cannot believe?

You misunderstand this. Cook says: "This is what I and Apple stand for". He is not telling you what to believe at all. But by taking a clear stance he is making it very clear what kind of company this is. This is important for the employees as well as the consumer.
 
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this law is proof they are certainly working towards such a goal. Indiana isn't the only state pulling this stunt. If you need further evidenceI recommend you look into Rand Paul's recent statements at a prayer breakfast (aka fundraiser)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/03/28/rand-paul-gay-marriage-debate-a-moral-crisis/?tid=hpModule_f8335a3c-868c-11e2-9d71-f0feafdd1394&hpid=z10

"The First Amendment says keep government out of religion. It doesn't say keep religion out of government," Paul said.

scary stuff indeed.

Rand Paul's comment isn't calling for a Theocracy nor does he wish to move towards such.

In my opinion, it would behoove you to study our founding history, especially as it pertains to the First Amendment and religious expression.

I recognize that there is a very small segment in our society that wants to move towards such. However, the law in question, as well as Paul's stance, is not close to a Theocracy nor are they moving towards such.
 
I'm sick of this idiot bringing his liberal politics into everything, and now he's doing even worse by jumping into unsubstantiated controversy.
 



The Washington Post article largely mirrors the argument advanced by Indiana Governor Mike Pence. Appearing on ABC’s This Week, Pence claimed “Then state-Sen. Barack Obama voted for [the Religious Freedom Restoration Act]. The very same language.”

The same argument is parroted on Fox News and elsewhere.
It’s not true.

The Indiana law differs substantially from the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act, signed by President Clinton in 1993, and all other state RFRAs.

There are several important differences in the Indiana bill but the most striking is Section 9. Under that section, a “person” (which under the law includes not only an individual but also any organization, partnership, LLC, corporation, company, firm, church, religious society, or other entity) whose “exercise of religion has been substantially burdened, or is likely to be substantially burdened” can use the law as “a claim or defense… regardless of whether the state or any other governmental entity is a party to the proceeding.”

Every other Religious Freedom Restoration Act applies to disputes between a person or entity and a government. Indiana’s is the only law that explicitly applies to disputes between private citizens. This means it could be used as a cudgel by corporations to justify discrimination against individuals that might otherwise be protected under law. Indiana trial lawyer Matt Anderson, discussing this difference, writes that the Indiana law is “more broadly written than its federal and state predecessors” and opens up “the path of least resistance among its species to have a court adjudicate it in a manner that could ultimately be used to discriminate…”

This is not a trivial distinction. Arizona enacted an RFRA that applied to actions involving the government in 2012. When the state legislature tried to expand it to purely private disputes in 2014, nationwide protests erupted and Jan Brewer, Arizona’s Republican governor, vetoed the measure.

Thirty law professors who are experts in religious freedom wrote in February that the Indiana law does not “mirror the language of the federal RFRA” and “will… create confusion, conflict, and a wave of litigation that will threaten the clarity of religious liberty rights in Indiana while undermining the state’s ability to enforce other compelling interests. This confusion and conflict will increasingly take the form of private actors, such as employers, landlords, small business owners, or corporations, taking the law into their own hands and acting in ways that violate generally applicable laws on the grounds that they have a religious justification for doing so. Members of the public will then be asked to bear the cost of their employer’s, their landlord’s, their local shopkeeper’s, or a police officer’s private religious beliefs.”

Various federal courts have differing interpretations of the scope of the federal RFRA. The Indiana law explicitly resolves all those disputes in one direction — and then goes even further.

This is evident in Section 5 of the Indiana law which provides protections to religious practices “whether or not compelled by, or central to, a system of religious belief.” So entities can seek to justify discriminatory practices based on religious practices that are fringe to their belief system.

Beyond the differences between the Indiana law and other states, many of the other states that have a RFRA also have a law that prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation. Indiana does not have one.


http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/...dia-tells-indianas-new-religious-freedom-law/
 
The media has skewed nothing.

There is a provision in the Indiana law that enables private litigation participants to claim "religious freedom" defence for refusal of service. This extends to discriminating against classes of individuals, including gay people (which is not a protected class in Indiana).

Religious freedom is about preventing the Government from imposing restrictions on your beliefs, not letting you use it as a defence in a lawsuit between a bakery and a customer, for instance.

In theory, correct. In practice, almost certainly not. The law does not say "Religious defense always wins." It applies a balancing test. There are two parts to the test. First, in order for the business to claim the religious freedom defense, it must demonstrate that the law being applied presents a substantial burden on the practice of religion. This won't apply to most businesses, because most businesses (especially large one's) cannot realistically claim a religious identity. They would have to be closely held (like Hobby Lobby), or have some explicitly stated religious mission. Even if the business could be said to have a religious identity, it would have to be demonstrated that the law substantially burdens their practice of religion. I can think of no religion in which it violates a religious principle to serve a gay couple in a restaurant or to sell some commodity or good to someone who is gay.

But we're not done yet. Even if the law places a substantial burden on religion, the state can still demonstrate that the law is the least restrictive means of accomplishing a compelling governmental interest. This is known as strict scrutiny. Some commentators note that this level of scrutiny is "strict in theory; fatal in fact," but the worst of the parade of horribles brought out by critics would not get past this step in the analysis. Critics have warned that doctors or EMTs could refuse to treat gay patients. That's preposterous because such a law requiring doctors to treat patients would certainly pass this test.

Now, when it comes to photographers, bakers, florists, etc., at gay weddings, the law may protect them. But do we really want to be forcing people to support something they find wrong? If I go into a gay person's T-shirt shop and ask for 2,000 T-shirts saying "Homosexuality Is a Sin," do we want to force the shop owner to make those T-shirts? If I went to a photographer who refused to photograph my wedding because (in her eyes) my wedding would be a cult ritual, I would prefer to know that rather than have her forced to photograph a wedding she objects to, and therefore do a worse job because of it.
 
Can someone point me to a tweet, comment or editorial from Tim Cook chastising China for it's appauling human rights record? Seems to me going after this Indiana law is a pretty safe thing to do.

So your issue is that Tim isn't getting involved in more issues or are you still anti-gay? Hard to keep up with your posts.
 
I'm sick of this idiot bringing his liberal politics into everything, and now he's doing even worse by jumping into unsubstantiated controversy.

Cook is too busy loving chinese cheap labor to talk about human rights there, such as the various issues with mandatory abortions etc.
 
But this court could strike it down.

We are living in 'interesting times'...

Strike what down? Gay marriage? If you've been paying attention to the coverage of court cases that finally brought it to the supreme court, you would understand why it's unlikely the court will rule against gay marriage. They're the ones who allowed it to expand to 37 states so far.
 
A big long thing nobody will read.

Yes, to counter that, you better go "find" some news that leans completely in the other direction and call it "fair and balanced reporting".

The dream of the Internet is everyone has access to complete human knowledge. The reality is that everyone has found their own echo chambers and just hear what they want to hear.

And then we all argue on message boards about bringing our own "facts".

With the understanding that this will change zero minds here are my thoughts:

1. Good for Tim. And good for Apple. (And if you think Tim did this without the knowledge and support of the board of directors and his executive team you don't understand how companies of this size work.)

2. I see people arguing that Tim is a hypocrite for not condemning China's abysmal human rights record. Be wary of those who say you can't try and fix one thing if you aren't going to fix everything.

3. I've seen a lot of focus on the Indiana law. It's a broader problem. The Texas law being drafted is horrific wether you support equal rights or not. It says that even in the (extremely likely) event that the Supreme Court rules in favor of Gay Marriage any clerk who issues a license is breaking the law.

Think about that, Texas is writing a law that says if you follow the orders of the highest court in our nation you will be severely punished. That doesn't even pretend to be about religious freedom.

4. There is not one single argument against Gay Marriage that has not been trotted out every other time this nation has attempted to expand human rights.

We can't get rid of the slavery because it's in the bible!

Women voting infringes on my rights as a man!!!

We need laws to protect the religious freedoms of people or lest they be FORCED to participate in a INTERRACIAL marriage!!!!!

This is what the last gasp of bigots has always looked like.

5. Lastly, it's been 3 plus years since my state allowed same-sex marriage. My straight marriage remains unchanged. I'll keep you posted.
 
I'm sick of this idiot bringing his liberal politics into everything, and now he's doing even worse by jumping into unsubstantiated controversy.


I'd say you should go buy Samsung products than but I'm sure their CEO will be copying Tim any time now.
 
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