Tim Cook 'Deeply Offended' by BBC Documentary on Apple Factory Conditions

[Thunderhawks]

Dear Tim

A large portion of the world was deeply offended when you threw your sexual deviance out into the spotlight.

Dear Nick,

Is the "large portion" bigger than all of those who don't care about that?

My iPhone and other Apple stuff just works!

 

[Poisonivy326]

So it's ok as long as a company doesn't pretend to be otherwise?

I'd love to see someone independent audit this BBC story rather than just assuming its fact and assuming Apple is lying.

It's like this. I know someone who smokes three packs a day. That's okay if she wants to ruin her own lungs. But she also lectures us on how we don't drink coconut water and follow her organic vegan gluten free diet. And its like ****, drop the marlboros and then maybe you can lecture me about eating a cookie.

 

[ucantgetridofme]

Who cares if Cook is deeply offended. That's an insult to the poor people wasting away in factories making Apple products so he can live like a king. This tool bag is so out of touch with reality it's sickening.

 

[Thunderhawks]

I think they are more evil in the sense that they have $165bn in cash. I'm not sure that any other tech companies have anything like that.

Apple charge an awful lot for their products and they're clearly screwing the manufacturers for everything they can, causing those manufacturers (Foxconn) to make the cost of manufacture ever cheaper, at the cost of working conditions. The result is massive profits and massive cash reserves.

Perhaps that whole sapphire glass company thing is an example of how Apple really don't care about their suppliers or how the goods are supplied. They just care about maximising their profit at the expense of others.

You must not be part of any business and know how business works and for sure you have no information about the price negotiations between Apple and their suppliers.

If you do , please post the info.

If you had a factory and Apple gave you the chance to make money, would you tell them they are screwing you by asking for too low a price?

Or, would you pass and let another company have that business?

I doubt that Foxconn feels screwed. At the end of the day making millions of devices will leave a handsome profit behind.
Hence opening additional factories.

What is typical for Foxconn and many businesses is that they are having a hard time to share profits with employees.

As for the sapphire situation please check the facts.

Anyway, please read a few books about supply chains and how business works and then report back to us.

 

[Rogifan]

It's like this. I know someone who smokes three packs a day. That's okay if she wants to ruin her own lungs. But she also lectures us on how we don't drink coconut water and follow her organic vegan gluten free diet. And its like ****, drop the marlboros and then maybe you can lecture me about eating a cookie.

Apple's never lectured me on anything. And I buy their products because I like them and they work for me, not for any sort of altruistic reason.

 

[NY Guitarist]

Dear Tim

A large portion of the world was deeply offended when you threw your sexual deviance out into the spotlight.

Does this non-sequitur affect the supply chain? 😕

 

[mrxak]

I would say that the reason Apple is, in this case, being "called out" so to speak is bc they tend to be the ones that are always saying "look at us, look at what we're doing," every time they do anything that may paint them in a positive light. Here we end up with someone who is looking at what they are doing, when they didn't ask or want so somehow that is a problem. It's no secret the conditions that exist there. The nature of the beast though is to go after the one who puts themselves out there the most.

When Apple goes after other companies these same people that cry foul here, like YOU since you decided to point out another poster in that same light, decide to sweep it under the rug. Take off the Tin Foil hat and realize this is the world we live in and that Apple is not equivalent to the mom and pop shop it used to be.

Apple has only ever spoken about what they're doing to improve things because they keep getting these hatchet job stories about them in the media and have to defend themselves. Other companies don't talk about their efforts because they're making no efforts, and the media never talks about them anyway.

Apple didn't put themselves out there for scrutiny, they were unfairly scrutinized first and continue to be scrutinized after Apple tried to defend themselves, while companies like Samsung, LG, Microsoft with worse supplier factory conditions keep getting a free pass.

 

[gugy]

IMO this is a widespread issue that follows any large corporation in the world that requires a huge amount of suppliers.
Apple is not alone here. While I believe some of the transgressions are true on the BBC report at least I can see good faith on Apple's part to solve the issues.
Meanwhile before anybody accuses Apple, keep in mind I would think 99% of the goods you buy everyday, some transgressions come from manufacturing it.

 

[inkswamp]

Indeed it does.

Tim would've earned a lot of respect from me if he had instead said, "You know what, you're right. We're appalled by this too and we're going to get serious about this issue." He would've even earned a little respect if he had said, "You know what? It's not our problem, and we won't be so in-your-face about saying how ethical we are over the rest of the industry." Instead, he took the predictable path of corporate denial.

Fail.

Pay attention. Tim Cook has said exactly that many times in the past and has openly stated that Apple is working toward addressing the problem.

I suspect he's not offended by the open discussion of this issue (he's done it himself) but rather the tone of the reporting. Big difference.

 

[TheHateMachine]

What horsepucky.

Profit is like a salary. You earn it for providing value. A voluntary transaction between supplier and customer sets that value.

The game is to make as much money as possible within the system and cashing in on people's lack of knowledge, laziness and/or desperation. If you aren't doing that then you are a bad capitalist.

 

[A MacBook lover]

No Apple is "claiming" they are doing something about it. Very different there. Apple is making those claims and what this proves is Apple claims are false and incorrect.

Or...they did exactly what they said they would do and Foxconn isn't complying when Apple isn't looking.

Not saying either is true/false, but since we are divulging into speculation...

 

[mrxak]

I'm surprised there aren't more people who are "deeply offended" that their "premium" iphone made from the most "premium" materials (as opposed to cheap plasticky Android phones) costs a whopping $5 to make.

That's $5 to assemble, not $5 to source the materials, turn those materials into parts, and then assemble those parts. All it is is $5 to assemble all those "premium" parts together. Apple's profit margin isn't 10000%.

 

[KiwiAdventure]

Who cares theirs a lot more bigger problems in the world than a few over worked Chinese. 😎

 

[TimelessOne]

Well Apple doesn't agree that the BBC proved anything. So how come with Apple it's "claiming" in quotes but with the BBC it's the truth? Has anyone audited this BBC report?

who is surprised that Apple does not agree.

This is not the first time nor will it be the last time Apple has been caught with its pants down telling less than the truth.

Worse case Apple is lying and its claims are complete BS.
Best case apple claims are completely incorrect and still wrong.

The truth is somewhere in-between. It is fairly safe Apple knew this stuff was going on and they were doing at most wrist slaps. Apple got caught.


Now things like this do bring out the apple apologist in droves

 

[bbeagle]

You are part of a problem as well. A different problem, but a problem nontheless.

Also, do you think people are more critical of Apple because of their ego, the chest-beating, the talking about how much better they are than anyone else? If I see an athlete playing football, and he never tells me how great he is but rather just plays the game, I have no expectation of his performance so I'm not surprised if he sucks. But the player next to him charges me extra to watch him play, telling me what a superstar he is, I'm going to be fairly upset if he's anything but amazing. And you can believe I'll be more critical of him. Not because of my actions, but because of his own ego and actions.

Make sense?

Yes, what you said makes sense in a way. Like, Johnny Manziel, QB of the Cleveland Browns. He's a rookie, has never won a game in the NFL, but goes around flashing the money symbol, and tells everyone how great he is all the time. I get that where people would be first to criticize HIM,

but Apple isn't the only player touting how great they are. Samsung touts it's 'Next Big Thing', Microsoft's Surface 3 is better than Apple, etc. etc.

 

[Gasu E.]

Profit can only be made at the expense of others.

Apparently you have no idea of the importance of capital, either financial or intellectual.

 

[Lucky736]

Apple has only ever spoken about what they're doing to improve things because they keep getting these hatchet job stories about them in the media and have to defend themselves. Other companies don't talk about their efforts because they're making no efforts, and the media never talks about them anyway.

Apple didn't put themselves out there for scrutiny, they were unfairly scrutinized first and continue to be scrutinized after Apple tried to defend themselves, while companies like Samsung, LG, Microsoft with worse supplier factory conditions keep getting a free pass.

Of course they are even WORSE since they aren't Apple, again take off the Tin Foil hat. 🙄

You do realize that many factories that make products for the other companies you mentioned are not only the SAME company that makes them for Apple but often times located less than a few hundred feet, if that, in the SAME industrial complexed owned and operated by the SAME manufacturing company. 🙄

The standards, or lack thereof if that is what people are arguing, are industry wide.

Again, the reason Apple was chosen for this is that they portray themselves to have a "golden boy" like image that is squeaky clean and trying to be a "champion" for all things when in reality, they aren't that different from the others. They just go out of their way to try to put the lipstick on the pig where others don't so that is why others are, at times, seemingly critical when in reality they are just stating the facts, obvious ones at that.

If you, or anyone else, are so concerned and caring about it, don't use these companies' products. If enough people felt like you then things would change. Unfortunately I don't see that happening.

 

[mrxak]

This documentary wasn't all that shocking to me. Unions have been making the same conclusions for years - that companies who farm out work to foreign countries do so in order to get from the high costs of production brought about by many factors - high taxes, and most importantly, a unionized workforce. They understand that foreign countries don't suffer the "problem" of unions - which is how they can keep production costs so low.

Foreign, underpaid workers slaving away in cramped conditions equals profit. It's always been that way - Apple is just one in a long line of companies making profits this way. They happen to be the only company giving the appearance of actually caring and doing something about it.

People complain about unions and call them irrevelant. Nothing could be further from the truth. This documentary proves it - if companies can achieve a profit at the personal expense and health of its employees, they will do so.

Why? Because they can.

Apple can set up all the inspections it likes - but as we can see from the video, the feeder companies will just find innovative ways to cook the books and give the appearance of compliance. "Hey - the worker checked off the box indicating he's okay with standing on his feet for 12 hours a day. So what's the problem?"

The answer is to bring the work back to the western world, bite the bullet and allow unionization. Which of course means it'll never happen.

Unions got political change which ensured workers rights they enjoy today. The problem with China isn't a lack of unionized workers, it's a lack of workers rights in the political arena. That can be solved with unions, or solved through a change in the general public.

The unions were important once, but like any organization that gathers a little bit of power to solve a problem, they never went away after the problem was solved and now exist only to try to maintain or increase the power of whoever is running it. Are union workers really better off having their jobs go overseas as a result of their union leadership policies? I don't think so, but the union leaderships are doing better than ever!

 

[LordVic]

Y
but Apple isn't the only player touting how great they are. Samsung touts it's 'Next Big Thing', Microsoft's Surface 3 is better than Apple, etc. etc.

Th ats not the question though. we're not talkign about chest bumping for technological advancements in this thread, We're talking about chest bumping for the on topic discussion of labour relations and standards.

In this case, it's exactly the reason yu two have mentioned. Apple has been very loud and vocal, especially since Tim Cook took over that they are advancing the quality of living, safety standards, employment standards at their vendor factories and partners.

This article pokes holes in that by showing that, while somethings maybe a little better, its not quite up to what Apple is claiming and that there is still a lot more that can be done.

 

[baryon]

I'm sure Apple is doing more than other companies to improve the conditions - but that doesn't mean the conditions aren't horrid as they are.

I don't know what Apple could change and how much more it could do. But if we look at the large picture, as long as we keep buying new phones, tablets, and computers on a couple yearly basis at affordable prices, there will be people out there who will build them.

Gone are the days when German craftsmen hand-polish your Leica camera that you pay a fortune for. Then you had a camera that lasted a lifetime or longer, you respected it, it worked perfectly, and the people who built it didn't have to hurry, they had time to sleep and they did something that required high skill and they were respected for that. You can pay a fortune for something you know you need, and you know you'll only have to buy it once in your life. If you buy an iPhone, you won't want to pay a fortune for it because no matter how cool it is now, it will be useless in 3 years.

The way to improve working conditions would be to be okay to pay far more for these products, and to stop upgrading them every two years by simply throwing them out and buying new ones just because the latest software update made the old one slow as hell.

Also, why do we need more tin for these products? Surely the amount of tin being used at any one time is constant, except we aren't recycling the products correctly.

You can't blame Apple for this. The entire Western world is responsible for creating and maintaining consumerism. We are the ones that generate the need for such products. There are more and more people in the world, more of them want to own more products. Now people have at least one computer, and many cell phones, as well as tablets and other gadgets. Someone has to build these. If Apple didn't comply to these needs, some other company would. The point is, we want stuff, they build stuff. We want it cheap, they work cheap.

 

[Gasu E.]

It's like this. I know someone who smokes three packs a day. That's okay if she wants to ruin her own lungs. But she also lectures us on how we don't drink coconut water and follow her organic vegan gluten free diet. And its like ****, drop the marlboros and then maybe you can lecture me about eating a cookie.

I assume you are talking about all the people on this thread criticizing Apple. Undoubtedly most of them have some little vice that invalidates their moral superiority. What's yours?

 

[kironin]

Indeed it does.

Tim would've earned a lot of respect from me if he had instead said, "You know what, you're right. We're appalled by this too and we're going to get serious about this issue." He would've even earned a little respect if he had said, "You know what? It's not our problem, and we won't be so in-your-face about saying how ethical we are over the rest of the industry." Instead, he took the predictable path of corporate denial.

Fail.

You OBVIOUSLY did not read the letter Tim Cook wrote to UK Staff or you suffer from serious lack of reading comprehension skills. 🙄

Fail. you.

 

[mrxak]

Everyone who blasts BBC needs to understand that Apple isn't being targeted because BBC has it out for them or even necessarily because BBC genuinely believes Apple is worse than other companies. It's because Apple claim to be so much better than every other company and build a significant portion of their customer relations on this claim.
Furthermore, even if Apple is much better than every other company doesn't necessarily mean they take enough responsibility, it only means that every other company is even worse.

Okay, so Apple claims they are better than other companies. Did the BBC investigate this claim? No. They did not report on any other companies and do a comparison. They simply investigated Apple and tried to put the company in the worst possible light irrespective of context.

----------

Now that he's CEO he also wants to be a human rights champion, while also paying $5 per $1000 USD iphone.

You've been seriously mislead if you think the entire cost of manufacture for the iPhone is $5. I'm sure that's what the BBC was hoping you'd end up thinking, but it's not in any way close to the truth. One small aspect of the entire manufacturing chain costs $5.

I also have no idea what that has to do with human rights.

 

[EnderTW]

This is nothing but a hatchet job by the BBC. Very disappointing.

Anyone who follows the industry knows how seriously Apple take their responsibility for supply chain workers. I hope that Tim Cook responds directly to this and puts the record straight because, unfortunately, there are too many people who will just take all this nonsense as fact and assume the worst.

This is specifically why they are targeting Apple, if you're going to boast about how well you source your items and how well you treat the supply-workers, expect to be looked at.

The point of the BBC piece was to show what Apple boasts as "Doing an awesome job" isn't close to what is awesome.

I'm glad the BBC did this, hopefully this makes Apple better.

 

[SakuraSuki]

You must not be part of any business and know how business works and for sure you have no information about the price negotiations between Apple and their suppliers.

If you do , please post the info.

If you had a factory and Apple gave you the chance to make money, would you tell them they are screwing you by asking for too low a price?

Or, would you pass and let another company have that business?

I doubt that Foxconn feels screwed. At the end of the day making millions of devices will leave a handsome profit behind.
Hence opening additional factories.

What is typical for Foxconn and many businesses is that they are having a hard time to share profits with employees.

As for the sapphire situation please check the facts.

Anyway, please read a few books about supply chains and how business works and then report back to us.

Seriously, how much money did Foxcoon profit from Apple's business? For 700 dollar devices, what is the portion goes to Foxcoon? They likely makes less the 1% of each iPhone sold. Do you think Foxcoon can afford to make better environment to their workers? How about more generous to your supplier? If Apple were to open a assembly line, it is likely not much better than Foxcon, given Apple's greddy.