Tim Cook Goes to Washington to Fight App Store Age Verification Legislation

[jarman92]

A lot of parents don’t know how to use parental controls

So everyone in the country should be forced to hand over their personal info because a few parents are too dumb to function in modern society? (I also question whether "a lot" of parents don't know how to use parental controls...the parents of minors today are overwhelmingly Millennials, who should absolutely know how to use technology.)

 

[jarman92]

What is your reasoning?

I am on board with verification for a lot of things.

1) Voting
2) Picking up Rx at the pharmacy.
3) Anything tied to a bank account/card (including Apple's app store).
4) Applying for a credit card.
5) Paying with a credit card at the store/online.
6) Establishing an account that requires sensitive information.

It shouldn't be a big deal to confirm who you are, as long as the information isn't retained after verification.

When was the last time you got IDed for trying to use a credit card? 🤨

 

[Dark_Omen]

When was the last time you got IDed for trying to use a credit card? 🤨

I'm saying I wish it would happen. Credit card fraud is a real thing.

 

[jarman92]

I'm not against this in principle, but all these laws use the same meaningless "commercially available method or process" language. What does being "commercially available" have to do with anything? It's incredibly vague and unhelpful.

 

[machpost]

I'm sure that his good friend (we'll call him "Donald") is against keeping young children away from inappropriate corners of the internet.

 

[HDJulie]

Is there a list of apps that have to be age verified? Does that include Facebook, Instagram, TikTok?

 

[Skyscraperfan]

Age verification is a privacy nightmare. Another thing that is only possible in the walled garden.

 

[ifxf]

You would think that Apple would get special concessions given all the money Tim has donated to various Trump projects.

 

[ifxf]

Is there a list of apps that have to be age verified? Does that include Facebook, Instagram, TikTok?

Kids are moving on to AI apps that the current administration want to free from regulation.

 

[macfacts]

time for apple to pull out of the USA

 

[dumastudetto]

The only thing governments will sacrifice profit for is control.
Otherwise, corporate interests and profits come first.
Protecting people as a pretence is only used as a weapon to achieve one or both objectives.
The general public will always be pawns in a bigger game.

 

[Doomtomb]

Steve Jobs never testified before Congress or lobbied in Washington D.C.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Age verification is a privacy nightmare. Another thing that is only possible in the walled garden.

The garden quickly becomes a panopticon.

 

[DaveOP]

Steve Jobs never testified before Congress or lobbied in Washington D.C.

His company was never anywhere close to this large and successful financially when he was in charge.

 

[mw360]

So everyone in the country should be forced to hand over their personal info because a few parents are too dumb to function in modern society? (I also question whether "a lot" of parents don't know how to use parental controls...the parents of minors today are overwhelmingly Millennials, who should absolutely know how to use technology.)

I have a computer science degree, I've owned a technology company for 20 years, I still write code, I have to learn and evaluate new pro apps all the time, I worked as a game dev for a decade before that. I don't know how to work all the parental controls. I've looked at them, I tinker with them, some of them are fine, some of them are pretty opaque, definitely I can't get them to do what I actually want because they are often too binary.

And that's just on the phone. There's all the game service controls too. And then Windows controls, and Mac controls. Then all the specific social media controls. There's the router controls and the ISP controls, and Google controls and all the other search engines too. It's completely unreasonable to get the average parent to have to labour over all of these. It's unworkable, it's absurd that these things are used as an excuse for pretending everything's fine.

We're going to have to go through a period of floundering, of a mess of clunky bans and censorship and whatnot before the industry realises people are actually serious, and gets its act together to develop standards of online safety and responsibility. Like the movie industries. This is for kids, this is for teens, this for adults. They could do it if they wanted to, they're just making too much money right now to want to.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Apple has been fighting the App Store Accountability Act because of its privacy concerns, and because it does not want to be legally responsible for verifying user age, obtaining parental consent, or ensuring that developers follow the rules, nor does it want to collect the required documentation.

Apple doesn't want to ensure Developers are following the rules?

They are delighted to ensure Developers follow the rules when it comes to Apple getting their cut of revenue.

I'm so tired of this company talking out of both sides of its mouth.

They want all the revenue & control from the walled garden, but apparently none of the responsibilities or hard work.

 

[HouseLannister]

Steve Jobs never testified before Congress or lobbied in Washington D.C.

Only because of timing--he was out right before the DoJ case with the ebook price fixing became a thing (2012). Then in 2013 McCain got mad at Apple about taxes in Ireland. Cook had to learn politics quick.

 

[Seoras]

As an outsider I see a country where kids kill other kids at schools with guns and these guys are focusing on legislating age restrictions on apps?

 

[surferfb]

I don't think this is a good law, and I don't think people should have to upload a driver's license or otherwise verify their age to download apps.

That said, if anyone has to verify users' ages, it should be Apple, not individual developers.

 

[Starfia]

Cowards. They were once happy to scan everyone’s photos for CSAM, but they won’t check ID to help protect young people? Merely proves how much virtue signalling this company is will to throw around.

Wasn't the verdict that they ultimately weren't happy to do that? (Didn't they double back before implementing it?)

 

[HouseLannister]

Wasn't the verdict that they ultimately weren't happy to do that? (Didn't they double back before implementing it?)

CSAM scanning was going to be part of iOS 15. Apple announced it, critics pushed back hard on the privacy issues, so Apple stopped developing it. It was all their idea though. And it was never implemented. (Announced August 2021 and canceled September 2021)

 

[I7guy]

Apple doesn't want to ensure Developers are following the rules?

They are delighted to ensure Developers follow the rules when it comes to Apple getting their cut of revenue.

I'm so tired of this company talking out of both sides of its mouth.

They want all the revenue & control from the walled garden, but apparently none of the responsibilities or hard work.

Nonsense. Apple does not want to enforce others’ rules. Of course they will enforce their rules. This dichotomy is not new in society. In many states weed is legal at the state level . But not at the federal level.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

Wasn't the verdict that they ultimately weren't happy to do that? (Didn't they double back before implementing it?)

Yes, which is why I said they were once happy. And they backed down because of the immense pressure from the public and industry members who knew it was a double-standard.

 

[mannyvel]

The government has been trying to fight internet anonymity since the beginning.

That said, which ID do you use. A birth certificate has no picture. A school ID probably has a picture but doesn't have a birthday. But in any case how would you verify the school ID or birth certificate was real? Most kids don't show up in any of the databases, since it's kind of illegal to track kids in many states.

I suppose they could say "if you're old you have to prove it." It still becomes a problem of verification.

And would Apple be liable if, say, someone presented a fake ID? If there's no way to actually verify an ID (and there actually isn't an "official" way besides a stare-and-compare) then what?

 

[vantelimus]

That’s like saying beer companies should be responsible for verifying age versus the store selling it. Not buying it.

Although I am with Apple on this, that is a compelling argument that must be properly addressed. I believe there is a qualitative difference between the one time consumption of a product when there is no extended relationship with the user (i.e., beer) and an app which establishes a recurring business relationship with its user. There is also a qualitative difference between a human-mediated purchase (i.e., beer at a liquor store) and a remote purchase where an electronic medium acts as a clearance house to facilitate the payment and delivery of the product. Given that there are these differences, it seems that reasonable people can disagree on the initial question.