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That's an animation with some stock footage, not this great pacific plastic patch. Exactly what I was talking about. Again it's weird there are no real pics or even videos of it. Weird that you think this is evidence and not an infomercial. I'm not going to get outraged over cartoons unless its another Samurai Jack delay.

There are few parts of the world where it's too dangerous to pick up liter, but there are lots of areas where people don't care and spend any energy to pick it up. I believe the debate still rages over whether these are social, cultural or economic issues. I just think you're an ******* if you litter, kinda like people who put their used gum under tables. People who can't be bothered to pick it up, seem to be the type of people who can't be bothered to do a lot of things. But I think its immoral to invent hysteria and claim the planet is dying over liter. Pick up your trash seems to be a fine and direct message without all the hype.
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Nobody really knows what the hell global temperatures mean, we are an infant species on a tiny rock we barely understand slowly being pulled into a fiery object so large in comparison we can barely conceive its immense size.

We don't even know why we are here. So before you get all high and mighty, war and oil might be THE solution to everything.

Dial your hype back to "we'd like it to be this way", ditch the doom and gloom, then we negotiate like adults from there. But that's not how eco-zealots want it, they want a proclamation of doom, admission of guilt, taxes to pay for oversights and sponsor dubious science programs decided by politicians.

You want energy efficient? Grand-dad had nuclear power, and it's still the most efficient vs amount of waste, but it scares hippies and they block and fear-monger any attempt to build up, change or refine the infrastructure. You should start there, nuclear power plants would be the best bang for you buck, but they will lack the signaling glamour of cutesier, inefficient projects.
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In scientific terms: We might be in the early stages of proving something = we got no testable and repeatable hypothesis yet, please keep funding us and maybe we will.

Reality: 99.9999999% of scientific theories are incorrect.

Your choice: Al Gore or the odds.
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Read some government legistlation sometime. The problem is clearly government legislation. It takes too long just saying government legislation, that alone eats into productive time, never mind the full text.

Government is fixed by less, more concise legislation. When its convoluted and over-complex, all time is spent arguing over minutia rather than getting anything done. It's easier to change direction than overcome inertia, but that an 'inconvenient truth' to petty partisans.

This is what keeps Rs and Ds in business, playing the world's most gentile game of tug of war ever, while pretending its the most intense gladiatorial combat. This next election battle will decide who gets the slightly cushier gig with slightly heavier workload, while the loser gets a slightly less cushy gig and slightly lighter workload.

Puny humans...
I pointed you to that page to see the explanation for why there's the lack of the kind of pictures you are asking for.

I'll repeat: The plastics are in the water and not some exciting floating continent that can be photographed from a satellite. The worst effects any plastics can have anywhere on land or sea is when they break down small and get into the bodies of living creatures. There are loads of articles on that.

But just look around. I have walked extensively over the years. I can't run thanks to bad knees but I love to walk. I see so much. We have drainage pipes that lead to our local bay. They are always clogged with plastic debris. Even the ones in a field next to my house...out in the middle of nothing. I can't imagine where the bottles and bags and plastic cups are even coming from. But it's there and I pick it up as best I can when I see it. I've lost count of how many twisted ankles and bruises I've suffered trying to get at it all.

Since our conversation here I made sure to pay attention on the drive to school and there was so much plastic litter along the side of the road and on the edges of farmers fields it was just too depressing to look at. It can be easy to overlook. Just lift your eyes and look at the trees and cattle. It's horrible but you can almost train yourself to not see it anymore. I think too many people do.

Now getting back to bodies of water, I don't see it too badly along the shores in most parts of the Carolinas I've been to. But where you see it the most is at the bays and marinas and I have seen it a bit in California at this one inlet. I'm going by what I see in person. What I have seen with my own eyes is bad enough, that I will trust the word of people who have made a scientific study of it.

I do know the term "climate change" is a buzzword that is very heavily politicized. It's frankly exploited by many different groups with different competing agendas that have negative effects on the environment and on economies and jobs. I could give examples but that would be likely to start arguments with both Republicans and Democrats on this board. I don't wish to do that. I've got other things I would rather be doing. I have been a member of both parties and can see where both of them go unreasonable and illogical on certain points.

I think maybe the best thing is to just drop the highly charged all encompassing and vague term "climate change" and go back to fighting specific problems like erosion--which is a natural process but it has terrible economic repercussions for coastal towns and resources and even naval defense. We need to stop arguing about what's causing it and just do something to help the people dealing with it.

And pollution--we can probably all agree we don't want or need litter strangling and defacing our environment and toxins poisoning our water and air, whether or not it's causing "climate change" or "global warming".

There are economic repercussions, however, on industry and business in fighting pollution, so we need to work out common sense compromises that we all can live with. People hate the concept of compromise these days, but it is better than the endless fighting between extreme viewpoints that end up locking us into doing nothing or doing too much one way or the other.

If we fight pollution, any pollution that does contribute to climate change should be mitigated without us even having to argue about that aspect of it.

By the same token, those who act as if all climate change is caused by man made issues within our control will also have to acknowledge the evidence in geological and archaeological records, and in what's going on in our solar system and realize not all of the problems we are dealing with are things we caused or control. We will have to figure out exactly what those things are and figure out how to work around them.
 
Is there a source for that?
Give it up. I am. The time I waste arguing with that kind of logic could be spent picking up trash. Which is what I'm doing later today when I walk the dog and the winds die down a bit. I really sincerely encourage everyone to open their eyes and pick up at least a few scraps here and there. I keep a small biodegradable bag with me and gloves in my pocket. It might not seem like much to do that, but every little bit helps. My maternal grandma raised me to do my part. She was an amazing woman who was given awards by the mayor for sweeping her little island street clean daily even into her 80's despite early stage Alzheimer's.
 
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So you're not really prepared to do any research on existing data and findings and just expect the information to be put in front of you in the form of a pop up book. You should run for president.
Cool! Another dilettante AGW alarmist wannabe who talks big. Alright, riddle me this:

If the atmospheric concentration of CO2 were to double over what it was at the start of the Industrial Revolution, how much would temperatures increase from JUST the doubling of CO2 (i.e., no feedbacks)?

Go ahead and research the answer. I'll wait here....
 
Cool! Another dilettante AGW alarmist wannabe who talks big. Alright, riddle me this:

If the atmospheric concentration of CO2 were to double over what it was at the start of the Industrial Revolution, how much would temperatures increase from JUST the doubling of CO2 (i.e., no feedbacks)?

Go ahead and research the answer. I'll wait here....
No feedbacks? So you want us to ignore the reality of the situation for your own ******** thought experiment?

Tell me how long car exhaust would take to kill you, but don't factor in the size of the room, can you do it?

:rolleyes:
 
Well, if placed more in the context of "we are optimistic about our future if we do what we can to deal with it and stick to it" then it seems like it can be a fairly decent take on it.
But the fact is we don't do enough. Things are getting worse, not better.
 
Which is why the example I gave could be more of a positive motivator to do more and stick to doing more.
Your example sounds fake and artifical like a demagogy:

Hey guys, we are going to crash, but I'm optimistic the train will stop if we do something to stop the train.

When things start changing for the better then you could truly feel the optimism:

Train is slowing down, yay, now I am optimistic about our future!

But for now claiming optimism is illogical and misleading at the very least, sounds more like a calming down, relax, everything is under control, when in fact it's not under control. It will do more harm than good.
 
Your example sounds fake and artifical like a demagogy:

Hey guys, we are going to crash, but I'm optimistic the train will stop if we do something to stop the train.

When things start changing for the better then you could truly feel the optimism:

Train is slowing down, yay, now I am optimistic about our future!

But for now claiming optimism is illogical and misleading at the very least, sounds more like a calming down, relax, everything is under control, when in fact it's not under control. It will do more harm than good.
Sounds like we are simply back to what was said at https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...alley-film-debut.2035252/page-5#post-24374659
 
to 2. You assume
to 3. Clearly you aren't and it shows.

Your first and last mistake is calling me a Climate Change denier, we KNOW IT'S CHANGING, just as it has for BILLIONS of YEARS, this is something we call a FACT.

The rest of your assumptions about what happens is just that...assumptions.

When you actually have something of substance instead of assumptions this conversation might actually go somewhere, as it is, your assuming stuff and I'm not going to play that game.

You're shoveling sand, to be polite, against the tide of painstaking scientific investigation and re-investigation that has gone on for decades and that does not support your views. You might not like what science has turned up about the effect of humans on our climate, but that doesn't mean the world can afford to turn its back on the findings. Nearly 200 countries have signed up to try to ameliorate the downside of our collectively too big footprint on this planet, hoping that we will have done so before it's too late for our next generations to deal with our having gone past the point of being able to maintain an inhabitable Earth.
 
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