Tim Cook Meets EU Antitrust Chief Ahead of iPhone App Sideloading Deadline

[SpaceJello]

For a long time defenders of Apple have been stating that sideloading apps has the potential to be extremely problematic because apps would be hosted by a 3rd party who may not do their own checks to see if what they are hosting is legitimate or a virus/malicious app. The thing is, that could well be the case BUT the point that keeps on getting missed is when it comes to consumerism, the EU is all about customer choice, let the customer decide what is best for them, not the manufacturer. The problem the EU see's with Apple is that Apple is the one that gets to decide what is and is not good for the customer, the customer not being able to make their own choice(s).

I for one would like the EU to force Tesla to let me run Game Boy Advance OS as their self-driving car’s OS. Why are they deciding what OS or AI my own car self-drives on? I want choice.

Then I want the EU to force all piano manufacturers the option for consumers to remove or add any keys of their choice. I just hate G#. They all gotta go.

Last but not least, I demand EU to force publishers to allow me to pick how a book is written and published. I don’t like punctuations. I have right to the choice to remove that in all books I buy.

Thank you 😌

 

[1129846]

No. Ever since the App Store opened, people have come to expect Apple has had their back that apps have been thoroughly vetted for privacy and security attacks. With many thousands of submitted apps being rejected for those reasons yearly since 2008.

And to be blunt most of those people are stupid if they think Apple really has their back as relaying on the Apple app store to keep you safe is a BAD idea as it is very easy to get around most of Apples restrictions in the review process. Remember you provide them with an account to log in and sign in with if they need on. You can easily turn off features during the review time or time delay it. Again never caught by apple.

Reviewers mostly all they do is poke around on the app. Hell some rejections are as simple as just resubmit and get a new reviewer who will not notice it.

 

[timber]

And to be blunt most of those people are stupid if they think Apple really has their back as relaying on the Apple app store to keep you safe is a BAD idea as it is very easy to get around most of Apples restrictions in the review process. Remember you provide them with an account to log in and sign in with if they need on. You can easily turn off features during the review time or time delay it. Again never caught by apple.

Reviewers mostly all they do is poke around on the app. Hell some rejections are as simple as just resubmit and get a new reviewer who will not notice it.

One could argue that the in app purchase system has evolved to almost a scam in itself and it is developed, deployed and promoted by Apple.

But that is kind of a side issue. One thing is how the Appstore works and other is if there should be the possibility of user installable software.

 

[citysnaps]

And to be blunt most of those people are stupid if they think Apple really has their back as relaying on the Apple app store to keep you safe is a BAD idea as it is very easy to get around most of Apples restrictions in the review process. Remember you provide them with an account to log in and sign in with if they need on. You can easily turn off features during the review time or time delay it. Again never caught by apple.

Reviewers mostly all they do is poke around on the app. Hell some rejections are as simple as just resubmit and get a new reviewer who will not notice it.

Got it. You apparently have inside information and believe everyone else is stupid believing Apple's app review process is a sham after rejecting many thousands of apps every year for privacy/security issues.

 

[anthogag]

Is it wise for Europe's most suspicious woman to meet Cook at Apple Park, a ring building. One walk around the ring is long enough for Apple to clone Margrethe and send someone back to Europe more Apple-friendly 😂

 

[Timo_Existencia]

The App Store is full of junk, scam apps, apps pretending to be other apps, etc.

The App Store is a wasteland....They haven't done a good job at all.

So, you'd prefer Apple used a heavier hand?

 

[WarmWinterHat]

So, you'd prefer Apple used a heavier hand?

With their app store, yes. Here's a start, don't allow keywords (SEO) in the descriptions, or don't allow competitors names in the description.

 

[wilhoitm]

Hope the EU breaks up one day.

I agree that the EU should be broken up! Absolute Power, Corrupts Absolutely! They are drunk with power and overstepping their bounds with misguided virtue signaling that will ultimately unintentionally cause more harm than good!

 

[WarmWinterHat]

I agree that the EU should be broken up! Absolute Power, Corrupts Absolutely! They are drunk with power and overstepping their bounds with misguided virtue signaling that will ultimately unintentionally cause more harm than good!

Naa, they will end up like the US; a collection of small governments.

I'm quite happy that the EU is dropping the hammer on silicon valley companies, since the US doesn't have the guts to do anything, and our congress are too in the pockets of wealthy companies.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Currently there are no jailbreaks for iPhones with an A12 and up for iOS 16 and up. It’s usually only older models and/or older iOS versions, and Apple may eventually manage to make the system completely airtight. An additional problem is that banking apps and the like detect when they are running on a jailbroken device and then refuse operation. It’s just not practical.

Sure, but that's not Apple's fault, nor Apple's responsibility. You want to jailbreak your phone? As I said before, Apple shouldn't be required to do this for you. If there's not enough interest in the jailbreaking community to do it well, or for certain devices, then so be it. But it's not on Apple to develop alternate OSs to use their phone.

 

[AndiG]

I'm unlikely to use side loading on my iPhone but the feature should be there. Call it 'installing' or something new aged like that. The place I *really* want this though is on the iPad.

Take a look at the whole picture. It is really not about sideloading, it is more about „breaking the ice“ or in Apples case, breaking the wallet garden.

So at the moment certain things (e.g. using the Apple Watch as a heart rate monitor for bicycle computers) are not possible, just because Apple doesn‘t like you to do so.
With sideloading, such things will be possible and in turn it makes no sense for Apple to ban such things from the AppStore.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

that isn’t how it works in real life. you are already unprotected

facts seem foreign to many people as well

There are no "facts" in this debate. Only preferences.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

And to be blunt most of those people are stupid if they think Apple really has their back as relaying on the Apple app store to keep you safe is a BAD idea as it is very easy to get around most of Apples restrictions in the review process. Remember you provide them with an account to log in and sign in with if they need on. You can easily turn off features during the review time or time delay it. Again never caught by apple.

Reviewers mostly all they do is poke around on the app. Hell some rejections are as simple as just resubmit and get a new reviewer who will not notice it.

So, you want Apple to have more control over the App store and Apps?

 

[Timo_Existencia]

With their app store, yes. Here's a start, don't allow keywords (SEO) in the descriptions, or don't allow competitors names in the description.

Why? What's the point of your desire here?

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Naa, they will end up like the US; a collection of small governments.

I'm quite happy that the EU is dropping the hammer on silicon valley companies, since the US doesn't have the guts to do anything, and our congress are too in the pockets of wealthy companies.

Do you think, like others here, that this is about "consumer choice?"

If so, why does Spotify escape scrutiny?

 

[WarmWinterHat]

Why? What's the point of your desire here?

Example, I just searched for an app (not going to name it here, but it's been around for over a decade), specifically by it's exact, and unique, name. It was in 14th place behind a load of copy-cats, apps with extremely similar names and icons, with company names that sounded similar. All of them have in-app subscriptions while the app I was looking for is a one-time purchase.

 

[wilhoitm]

Naa, they will end up like the US; a collection of small governments.

I'm quite happy that the EU is dropping the hammer on silicon valley companies, since the US doesn't have the guts to do anything, and our congress are too in the pockets of wealthy companies.

Just wait a while and you will be changing your tune! It will not end well! It is ultimately Marxist Communism!

 

[1129846]

Got it. You apparently have inside information and believe everyone else is stupid believing Apple's app review process is a sham after rejecting many thousands of apps every year for privacy/security issues.

Yes I have inside information of I have been doing iOS development for over 10 years with multiple apps at multiple companies and have dealt with my share of rejections. I understand remote configurations and account setups turning off things that gets flagged in review.

Does the app store review make it a little harder yes but not that much harder. The bigger threats easily can get around the app store review process as all the rejection are doing is stopping mostly minor issues that require a little work. Mostly catching honest people making honest mistakes. The real threats can get around it.

Thinking the app store is keeping you safe is huge mistake and a false sense of security.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

With sideloading, such things will be possible and in turn it makes no sense for Apple to ban such things from the AppStore.

Makes no sense to you. It makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

Just wait a while and you will be changing your tune! It will not end well! It is ultimately Marxist Communism!

Yawn....The communism argument is old, tired, and incorrect. Time to brush up on your economic theory....Maybe read "The Communist Manifesto", while you're at it, before spouting Marxism..

I also recommend "The Principles of Political Economy and Taxation" by David Ricardo. Both were required reading when I was getting my undergrad degree in Econ.

 

[gnipgnop]

The Mac (and Windows) work mainly (and for a lot of people almost exclusively) on "side loading". And the Mac has no problem providing a private and safe platform. I find amazing that so many swallow this ridiculous justification.

Apple has already provided the stats on macOS vs iOS when it comes to security. iOS is unquestionably more private/secure by the numbers. That's why the EU deliberately omitted privacy/security level as a form of competition when it came to Apple's products.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Example, I just searched for an app (not going to name it here, but it's been around for over a decade), specifically by it's exact, and unique, name. It was in 14th place behind a load of copy-cats, apps with extremely similar names and icons, with company names that sounded similar. All of them have in-app subscriptions while the app I was looking for is a one-time purchase.

Right. So, you want the app store to be controlled with a tighter fist.

I'd like that too.

In fact, I want to whole OS to be controlled with a tighter fist. In the era of privacy and data, I want to be able to buy a device that is as closed as possible, while still providing a great choice of software applications.

I don't think the EU has my best interest at heart.

 

[one more]

Whilst I agree with this to a large extent, the problem here is that the EU isn't then merely "on the side of the consumer": it is the victim of billions of euros' worth of lobbying from Google, Microsoft and many others, to help bring down Apple a peg or two.

What we are seeing is not some pro-consumer EU but an EU at the bidding of corporations that want to "open up" Apple devices: open them up to third-party services such that Messages would be forced to integrate with Facebook's WhatsApp platform and Google's RCP Android services. You'll notice this would be to the prime benefit of Facebook and Google rather than to some one-man band with a little messaging service.

Even if Messages is not singled out in this way (I'm hearing conflicting information on whether Apple is a "gatekeeper" for this purpose), then it's still important to see how this is not merely a consumer protection but a boon to other billion-dollar corporations who seek to bring down Apple, its specific culture and its secure, walled garden (a garden I suspect 95% of Apple consumers rather like).

Since both app side-loading and 3rd party app stores are optional, I do not see any issues there. Essentially, iPhones and iPads will become more like Macs. The existing tools, like iMessage, should continue to function as they do now. What is there not to like?

 

[WarmWinterHat]

Right. So, you want the app store to be controlled with a tighter fist.

I'd like that too.

In fact, I want to whole OS to be controlled with a tighter fist. In the era of privacy and data, I want to be able to buy a device that is as closed as possible, while still providing a great choice of software applications.

I don't think the EU has my best interest at heart.

Apple has shown that 30% of sales is more important to them than cleaning up their act, so I'm asking them to get out of the way and let me do it myself.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Since both app side-loading and 3rd party app stores are optional, I do not see any issues there. Essentially, iPhones and iPads will become more like Macs. The existing tools, like iMessage, should continue to function as they do now. What is there not to like?

I think Apple is slowly, but surely, moving away from the Mac model.

The question is who decides. Most who support the EU here keep saying "it's about consumer choice."

And yet, if a music artist wants to use a 3rd party payment system, or direct listeners to their own store, the EU doesn't force Spotify to open up their platform.

I mostly say this is a matter of preference, and agree that the EU can set whatever rules they want. But I become suspicious when the rules are selectively applied. I start to doubt that the motivation is "consumer choice."