Tim Cook on iPhone XS: People Want the Most Innovative Phone Possible and 'It's Not Cheap to Do That'

[dilbert99]

Apple sells the most expensive phone on the market with the biggest profits.
I have no respect for his statement. Such a croc.
Just misdirection, of course its not cheap to do the best phone, but neither does it have to cost what they charge with the obscene profits they make.

 

[konicky]

In the quote he references an 'over $1000 phone', which itself is a response to the question about the XS Max being $1100.

So he isn't talking about the XS or Xr. and even the Xr is more than $30 per month ($34 for the base model, XS is $46, XS max $51.50)

It's just a shame that nobody ever takes him to task when he lies like that! A little bit of research by the interviewer would easily show him to be talking BS.

 

[balaplus]

It's just a shame that nobody ever takes him to task when he lies like that! A little bit of research by the interviewer would easily show him to be talking BS.

It's up to the listener to interpret it as follows
- it is for the phone only
- over a period of 3 years (3 * 365 * 1$ )
- excluding other costs such as data plan, insurance etc.

 

[wbeasley]

So this new phone would want to replace multiple devices. At the prices they expect you to pay it also replace your laptop cos it costs about the same!

I was considering an Xr until checked the screen specs: 828 pixels!!! Why change when my 6s+ is 1080? New tech worse than 3 year old tech with 1080. Huh?

Since I installed iOS 12 and put an Xr wallpaper on it feels like I’ve got a new phone.

 

[Ethosik]

Exactly. A bean counter such as yourself would be much better suited with say a One Plus phone. You could save yourself 40% and justify the expense. Not to mention have a comparable phone. Don't tell me your justification is Apple and their OS or eco system. You would be giving yourself away.
[doublepost=1537332436][/doublepost]

If you are making six figures and need to finance a $1000 purchase you are doing something wrong. Like I said, leveraged. Six figures means nothing if your expenses are too high. It's all relative. You mentioned you don't want to post your bank statements but what is your debt to income ratio if you don't mind me asking?

Just trying to understand where you are going from. You seem to be going out of your way to educate us on your wealth, but your rationalizations for purchasing a phone seem to elude me.

How is me choosing the iPhone BECAUSE of the OS and Apple ecosystem a bad reason for choosing the iPhone? I like the X's screen better than the 8 when I ordered it. I liked the lower physical footprint of the X compared to the 8 when I ordered it. I like my iMessages on my Mac and sending/receiving calls on my Mac. I like I Apple Watch. How is the OS and Ecosystem NOT a valid reason to choose the iPhone?

I don't have any debt. That is why I can have several months saved for 0 amount of income. That is why I can drop $4,500 on an iMac. Like I have said from the beginning, choosing the monthly option does not mean you need to finance it due to financial issues.

 

[brofkand]

So this new phone would want to replace multiple devices. At the prices they expect you to pay it also replace your laptop cos it costs about the same!

I was considering an Xr until checked the screen specs: 828 pixels!!! Why change when my 6s+ is 1080? New tech worse than 3 year old tech with 1080. Huh?

Since I installed iOS 12 and put an Xr wallpaper on it feels like I’ve got a new phone.

Well for many people, a smartphone does replace a laptop. Several members of my family have smartphones, a few have a tablet too, and that's it.

 

[SoN1NjA]

It’s not reasonable with free Android OS, it should be half the price of what it is. Samsung should only charge for hardware since software is free. If the Samsung hardware has to be this expensive, then the phone is overpriced compared to iPhones.

Samsung might not have as big of a task as Apple, but they do have to create software for these devices

 

[travelsheep]

You need to understand that Apple RAM is much more expensive than all other RAM on this planet.

 

[JungleNYC]

I fear Apple has gotten themselves into a premium trap: the sheen has been slowly coming off ALL their products (not totally their fault, just consumers getting used to high end stuff), but they've kept the "apple tax" in full effect, and actually increasing it over the last few years. Sales will eventually soften, but then they'll be stuck trying to rely on elevated price points to make up that difference. If they're not careful it will create a situation they can't easily get themselves out of.

The smart thing for Apple to do (soon) is to quietly start to soften their prices a bit, over the next few years. That way they won't get smacked with the full extent of the eventual pricing backlash.

 

[brofkand]

I fear Apple has gotten themselves into a premium trap: the sheen has been slowly coming off ALL their products (not totally their fault, just consumers getting used to high end stuff), but they've kept the "apple tax" in full effect, and actually increasing it over the last few years. Sales will eventually soften, but then they'll be stuck trying to rely on elevated price points to make up that difference. If they're not careful it will create a situation they can't easily get themselves out of.

The smart thing for Apple to do (soon) is to quietly start to soften their prices a bit, over the next few years. That way they won't get smacked with the full extent of the eventual pricing backlash.

Sales have already softened. iPhone sales are down quite a bit from the peak during the iPhone 6 cycle.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

I'd like an innovative waterproof headphone jack and fingerprint reader, and none of the FaceID BS please. It's not even a price issue, it's that Apple doesn't make a product that I want anymore; they make a product I don't want, and change an exorbitant premium for it.
[doublepost=1537366964][/doublepost]

There's an old saying about 'firing' the bad clients and only keeping your good customers. I believe Apple's good customers and the ones they want are the ones that aren't limited by money. Otherwise there would be a phone that's $600 that wasn't made 3 years ago but is the new SE type phone.

Apple could make an iPhone with the Xs specs, price point, but smaller, with a headphone jack and fingerprint reader instead of FaceID. I'd buy it. I'm not concerned about price. The day it was announced, I bought a maxed out SE with AppleCare. I'd do it all over again if they offered anything like it.

 

[TheNorthWaves]

As someone who buys phones in cash and uses a prepaid AT&T account (because it's super cheap and they have great coverage in my area), Tim's approach to the subscription-model-makes-the-insane-price-ok thing does not go over well with me. If they don't replace the iPhone SE with another sub-$600 small-ish new iPhone by the time my 128GB SE dies, I'll be considering an Android phone (after ten years with an iPhone).

 

[Sackofnickels]

How is me choosing the iPhone BECAUSE of the OS and Apple ecosystem a bad reason for choosing the iPhone? I like the X's screen better than the 8 when I ordered it. I liked the lower physical footprint of the X compared to the 8 when I ordered it. I like my iMessages on my Mac and sending/receiving calls on my Mac. I like I Apple Watch. How is the OS and Ecosystem NOT a valid reason to choose the iPhone?

I don't have any debt. That is why I can have several months saved for 0 amount of income. That is why I can drop $4,500 on an iMac. Like I have said from the beginning, choosing the monthly option does not mean you need to finance it due to financial issues.

Everything you said is reasonable. I didn't say anything about choosing the iPhone is a poor choice. The part I am contesting is your laundry list of claims about your wealth and finances. I really don't see the point. It's insulting to those of us who really have been careful with our money, worked hard, and have something to show for it.

As far as debt is concerned, a homeless person living on the street could be debt free, yet a college student straight out of med school could have $150,000 in student loan debt. Who is better off financially at this point? I don't hear very many homeless people bragging about their lack of debt, but have heard several people brag about their status as a physician, although they have yet to land a job or pay off their student loans. Modesty is a virtue.

 

[code-m]

The Note 9 was very innovative (though it has its flaws) and the price is maxed out at $1250 — expensive? Totally, but it’s more reasonable

While I do not concur with Tim Cooks marketing spin relating to price or defending Apple, there are a number of things happening here and it started with the X if not earlier.

In the keynote Apple highlighted that it is designing phones to be used for many, many years to decrease its environmental footprint/impact. These phones are meant to be used for 3-5 years, considering the silicone is powerful enough that most of its capabilities have not been used in many many apps. The price increase does not related to direct material cost alone, as many people will be keeping their phones for many many years Apple has to account for those non-upgrades to offset the cost to be profitable and productive for R&D purposes.

There were many advances in prior iPhone generations that people upgraded annually or every two-three years. However as smartphones have reached its peak and will either continue on this plateau or head on a downward path, there is very little refinement and upgrade that can be added to a rounded rectangular device.

If Apple kept the price low, their intent would be for the end user to upgrade frequently and new technology trickling in. There is conflicting messages as to what technology to withhold until later and what to include presently. That is another debate for another thread.

While I do not agree with Apples pricing, I understand the purpose. Many users here are accustomed to upgrade frequently and will have to change their habits moving forward. Don’t want to change, then don’t complain.

I suspect the “R” in Xr may stand for “Rainbow” due to the colour options.

 

[Sackofnickels]

Hyperbole much. The iPhone Xs is the exact same price as a year ago, $999 and $1149. The Xs Max is only $100 more for the equivalent storage size. The 512GB tier is a premium tier and priced accordingly. Don’t want it or need it, don’t buy it...but don’t be disingenuous to try and make a point.

As for cars, go price out a Ford F-250 at all the various levels that are offered and want the price escalate into the stratosphere. YoY increases in vehicles are growing larger each model year, but end up hidden in a new trim level (Touring is a favorite now), or in the options packages.

Trucks are Ford's biggest money maker by far, they are in high demand, and are priced in the stratosphere because of it. Just like iPhones are Apple's biggest money maker, they are in demand, and are priced accordingly.

To me that does not mean premium or luxury. It means strategic pricing based on what the market will bear.

I think the luxury or premium moniker affixed to iPhones is a way to justify the cost.

But on the other hand, after making my analogy, I inadvertently taught myself a lesson. I would really like to purchase a Ford Raptor. Beautiful truck. Really like the look of it, and always notice them on the road. But at $70,000 to $80,000 US, it seems like a lot of money for a truck. You get a lot of features but the price is still pretty high. Especially. since you can buy a nicely equipped truck for $30,000 to $40,000. I am trying the rationalize the price of the Raptor to get what I want, kind of like what a lot of people are doing here to justify buying the latest iPhone.

I stand corrected.

 

[Ethosik]

Everything you said is reasonable. I didn't say anything about choosing the iPhone is a poor choice. The part I am contesting is your laundry list of claims about your wealth and finances. I really don't see the point. It's insulting to those of us who really have been careful with our money, worked hard, and have something to show for it.

As far as debt is concerned, a homeless person living on the street could be debt free, yet a college student straight out of med school could have $150,000 in student loan debt. Who is better off financially at this point? I don't hear very many homeless people bragging about their lack of debt, but have heard several people brag about their status as a physician, although they have yet to land a job or pay off their student loans. Modesty is a virtue.

I don’t mean to be insulting so sorry if that’s what happened to you and others. But how is what I said insulting to hard workers and have something to show? I am a senior software developer, I am a hard worker, and I think my savings account is something to show. If you have a better career, great! I hope I continue to grow to be manager/director/CIO.

My entire point from my first post was replying to someone saying you shouldn’t pay monthly if you cannot afford the full price upfront. I explained my views on it and why I chose monthly. And even stated my new iMac which is more expensive than my iPhone and is not a monthly payment. So I obviously can get my device in full but choose not to.

I mean I literally have no debt. I have a credit card but I treat it like a debit card. Usually paying off purchases daily, weekly, or paying the full balance at the end of the month. I have no debt from college, my loans were paid off years ago. No medical bills. Unless you consider house payment and car payments as debt. I am thankfully in a good spot!

It really helps for me to pretend I am “broke”. Same reason as I said I had a colleague at a previous job that was a rich lawyer that did the same. No fancy car or house, old crappy computers that I had to repair one time because he didn’t want to get a new one, and more.

I would like a nicer house, but I’m not interested in a million dollar house or anything like that. Maybe just doing some upgrades would be good enough! I want to put in a swimming pool someday, so I am saving for that too.

 

[InuNacho]

But on the other hand, after making my analogy, I inadvertently taught myself a lesson. I would really like to purchase a Ford Raptor. Beautiful truck. Really like the look of it, and always notice them on the road. But at $70,000 to $80,000 US, it seems like a lot of money for a truck. You get a lot of features but the price is still pretty high. Especially. since you can buy a nicely equipped truck for $30,000 to $40,000. I am trying the rationalize the price of the Raptor to get what I want, kind of like what a lot of people are doing here to justify buying the latest iPhone.

I stand corrected.

I don't understand the appeal of the Raptor, it's a truck and trucks are meant to be used and abused. Then again I drive a 97 Tacoma and own iPhone SE and 2009 Mac Pro so what do I know about expensive luxury items.

 

[john123]

Sales have already softened. iPhone sales are down quite a bit from the peak during the iPhone 6 cycle.

Careful. This sounds like you’re presuming causality when it’s more likely the cause is exogenous factors.
[doublepost=1537382586][/doublepost]

Apple sells the most expensive phone on the market with the biggest profits.
I have no respect for his statement. Such a croc.
Just misdirection, of course its not cheap to do the best phone, but neither does it have to cost what they charge with the obscene profits they make.

Doesn’t bother me. It’s standard marketing. If I were a shareholder I’d be ticked if he did anything else.

 

[cardfan]

Samsung might not have as big of a task as Apple, but they do have to create software for these devices

You mean bloatware

 

[bizzle]

LOL. I'm glad I switched to mid-range Android phones a few years ago and haven't looked back. It's not just Apple, all of these "flagship" phones are getting out of control with the pricing. It's not expensive (relative to Apple's offerings) to get a near-stock Android experience, with tons of options well under $350. I get Android has it's flaws, but they don't justify paying $750+ for an XR which frankly looks like a toy from the images I've seen, or $1000+ for an XS. For all that money you don't even get a fast charger or headphone adapter in the box!

Oh wait, I can pay $450 and get the one from two years ago. Yeah, I'm still sticking with Android options.

 

[duffman9000]

You need to understand that Apple RAM is much more expensive than all other RAM on this planet.

And Apple can compress it more than others. Yes, I’ve heard that excuse before lol.

 

[lec0rsaire]

Sure Timmy! Apple definitely more than recouped all of the R&D on the X already. He could've price the XS at $899 and the XS Max at $999. The only reason not to is to position iPhone as a luxury product knowing that people will pay whatever they have to to have the latest, shiniest thing.

This is also why Apple introduced the leasing model. This way even those who just can't afford to buy them outright can still get one. Luxury car manufacturers have had lots of success with the leasing model. Without it we definitely wouldn't have a sh*tload of brand new 3 series, C class and A4s on the road. So much so that they're not even special anymore. That wouldn't be the case if they had to pay the $1400/month that a $50k vehicle really costs financed within the typical 3 year period.

 

[iSayuSay]

You need to understand that Apple RAM is much more expensive than all other RAM on this planet.

LOL I know right? People used to boast about buying their own "Apple RAM" to upgrade their Macbook Pro. Turns out it's the same RAM that every Windows laptop use. Third parties also took advantage of the situation. Sell the same RAM with "Made for Apple" slapped on to the packaging, charge twice or thrice the price of puny "Windows RAM" for insecure and clueless Mac users.

They took the bait. Daaangg! So easy to make money LOL

 

[stylinexpat]

Apple sells the most expensive phone on the market with the biggest profits.
I have no respect for his statement. Such a croc.
Just misdirection, of course its not cheap to do the best phone, but neither does it have to cost what they charge with the obscene profits they make.

In places like California being ripped off is the norm.

Internet from COX is about $90 per month where as in Taiwan it is about $24 for same service. You pay 3 times more for an internet line to your house. 300/100 is about 727 NT in Taiwan which is about $23.62
For the same speeds you pretty much pay 3-4 times more for internet service at home. If you pay $65 more per month that is about $780 per year which is ticket price to Europe or Asia every year when airfare tickets are on special. Bottom line is quite often people pay more in America. The iPhone should not cost that much but being America and wanting a monopoly over what it sells for worldwide it sells for what it sells for so Apple can profit. Warranty is not long at 1 year nor does the company pay high dividends to shareholders.

I have an iPhone,an IPad Pro and a MacBook Pro. I love Apple products but I believe they gouge people with their prices.


https://www.cht.com.tw/en/personal/fttx.html



https://www.cox.com/residential/internet.html#plans
[doublepost=1537417964][/doublepost]

Trucks are Ford's biggest money maker by far, they are in high demand, and are priced in the stratosphere because of it. Just like iPhones are Apple's biggest money maker, they are in demand, and are priced accordingly.

To me that does not mean premium or luxury. It means strategic pricing based on what the market will bear.

I think the luxury or premium moniker affixed to iPhones is a way to justify the cost.

But on the other hand, after making my analogy, I inadvertently taught myself a lesson. I would really like to purchase a Ford Raptor. Beautiful truck. Really like the look of it, and always notice them on the road. But at $70,000 to $80,000 US, it seems like a lot of money for a truck. You get a lot of features but the price is still pretty high. Especially. since you can buy a nicely equipped truck for $30,000 to $40,000. I am trying the rationalize the price of the Raptor to get what I want, kind of like what a lot of people are doing here to justify buying the latest iPhone.

I stand corrected.

The new Raptor is an amazing truck. The amount of fuel it guzzles though is mind boggling. You are looking at $500 per month easily just in fuel costs. That is $6K per year in fuel. That is a nice vacation for two every year. Makes sense to own one in Saudi or Kuwait where fuel is very cheap. If money isn’t an issue that would be a great truck to own. The employees at your local gas station will all know and remember your name within a month

 

[dilbert99]

Careful. This sounds like you’re presuming causality when it’s more likely the cause is exogenous factors.
[doublepost=1537382586][/doublepost]
Doesn’t bother me. It’s standard marketing. If I were a shareholder I’d be ticked if he did anything else.

If I were a stockholder, i'd be worried about any company that did price gouging.
Its not like Apple are a fashion house or perfume where the product price bears no relation to the materials so have no need to charge the Apple tax for extra storage in the phone.
To have 64 gig in a flagship device is just a joke.