Tim Cook on Mobile Payments: 'It's In Its Infancy'

[jasvncnt]

it takes sooooo much time to use a credit card or cash to purchase something.

No..but having NFC is convenient. Only thing in my pocket is my debit card. I dont ever carry a wallet.

 

[aerok]

it takes sooooo much time to use a credit card or cash to purchase something.

yes it does, go to Wal Mart, wait inline behind 7 people. Wait for all of them to take out their card and enter their nip. I'll probably take 15 minutes before it's your turn. Use only NFC, cut that time by 10 minutes.

 

[3282868]

No..but having NFC is convenient. Only thing in my pocket is my debit card. I dont ever carry a wallet.

Plus it's much more secure. If your wallet or purse is stolen, you need to cancel those cards and contest any charges. NFC is extremely secure and almost impossible, if at all, to decrypt/hack. A virtual wallet is much more secure than carrying around cash and credit cards. If someone steals your phone, they have to enter your passcode. If a fingerprint sensor is implemented, good luck. You can easily wipe your device with "Find my iPhone". Problems much more easily resolved. Digital transactions are much easier to track in finance software, I could easily see apps tracking purchasing with NFC payments much easier than paying extra for online bank services and downloading data on a daily basis. Syncing the device could be automatic and simple.

 

[subsonix]

Plus it's much more secure. If your wallet or purse is stolen, you need to cancel those cards and contest any charges. NFC is extremely secure and almost impossible, if at all, to decrypt/hack.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_field_communication#Security_aspects

 

[3282868]

Note: articles are directly quoted for ease of access; Tl,DR comments: I suggest reading as it addresses many concerns some are erroneously listing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_field_communication#Security_aspects

First, that's Wikipedia, I never source anything from it as it's very unreliable.

Second, those examples are near and far and have been addressed. NFC is still a far more secure wireless tech, especially over RFID.

RFID is a one-trick tech: A reader detects and pulls information from a tag. That's about the extent of these systems. NFC is more complex.

As you just read, NFC duplicates RFID's feat by reading smart tags, thanks to its read/write operation mode. But in addition to read/write capabilities, NFC has two other modes, both of which involve dynamic, two-way communication: card emulation and P2P (peer-to-peer). That's where smartphones and other NFC-capable devices come into play.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/difference-between-rfid-and-nfc.htm

NFC is only as secure as the applications and implementation allow. Meaning, as with any tech from Bluetooth to RFID, it is the responsibility of its applied application to ensure security. RFID as currently implemented is less secure due to the method it is currently utilized and the lack of improvements in already known security shortcomings.

The "securability" and reliability of NFC applications will depend in large part on the devices on which they are implemented, that is, in the ability of those devices and their operating system software to resist application-to-application data leakage and interference. These mobile devices are already being used for financial transactions over the Internet and using graphical readers for bar codes or QR codes. However, it is clear that these systems will vary greatly in their ability to protect their applications and will rely to some degree upon their users and vendors to keep them sanitary and current. We must be prepared for the NFC technology to be blamed for any compromise with which it is even remotely associated.

Still, I am hopeful that NFC will find many security applications and "securible" implementations. I particularly hope that it will find application in the payment system, and, for example, by emulating EMV, encourage its adoption. We must design and chose carefully and apply and use conservatively. We should err on the safe side. We have to prepare diligently and advance cautiously. It will be difficult and risky and it will challenge our knowledge, skills, and abilities. That is why we are called professionals and are paid the big bucks.

Source:
Near Field Communication (NFC)

Dated 2011, much improvement has been made. As well, NFC has been used since 1997 in Japan and many other nations with little impact on its security. If it was as insecure as claimed, it would not have been so widely adapted in various large markets.

What makes Near Field Communication so intriguing to private citizens and business-making ventures alike is that it is both safe and effective, two of the most important attributes to any technological advance. People find it so safe because the range at which NFC systems can interact is a maximum of 20 centimeters and both systems must be active in order to receive that information, thereby giving both parties reasonable assurance that unwanted data transfer is not taking place.

Near Field Communication - NFC vs RFID

8 myths about Mobile NFC

Myth 1 | Consumers aren’t prepared to pay with their mobile

Myth 2 | Mobile payment via NFC isn’t really secure

Payment applications require certification coming from Visa and MasterCard. These payment applications are downloaded and installed in secure elements such as SIM cards which have to be common criteria certified (exactly like banking cards). The post-issuance process (including security mechanisms) of installing and personalizing a payment application via TSM in an NFC secure element has been standardized in Global Platform and therefore endorsed by the banking world. Finally the trusted service managers (TSMs) in charge of managing the payment applications remotely are hosted in secure data centers which are also certified by financial services authorities.

Key features which reinforce the Mobile NFC security include:

1) The NFC SIM cards storing a consumer’s payment credentials and the payment applications are certified according to security standards defined by financial services authorities and are comparable to CHIP-N-PIN security.

2) Consumers can choose to authenticate transactions by entering a PIN code on the payment application. Consumers can also request the PIN to be entered for all payments, even for small amounts – providing the end-user with complete control of protection features.

3) Secure over-the-air technology for remote management enables immediate remote blocking of the payment application. This works in a similar fashion to blocking a bank card in opposition mode.

Myth 3 | If my phone is lost or stolen, it will be a nightmare to cancel or block all the accounts!

Myth 4 | NFC has been talked about for five years now. It will never go mainstream!

Myth 5 | There’s no great availability of NFC mobile handsets so how will it ever take off?

Myth 6 | If I had an NFC phone I wouldn't be able to use it anywhere

Myth 7 | 10 years from now, the mobile wallet will replace all the need for cash and contactless cards

Myth 8 | Mobile NFC: heard of it, but doesn’t sound real to me

NFC is under deployment in many countries around the world including France, UK, USA, Poland, Japan, South Korea, Turkey, Singapore and the Netherlands, which is leading the race with a wide-scale deployment expected in 2012.

There is much more information supporting why NFC is better and many of the claims against NFC are addressed.

 

[subsonix]

Note: articles are directly quoted for ease of access; Tl,DR comments: I suggest reading as it addresses many concerns some are erroneously listing

First, that's Wikipedia, I never source anything from it as it's very unreliable.

Eh, that wikipedia article contains links to the original sources in this case. Look at your original quote, it looks like it's the most secure technology that has ever been developed. That alone should make you suspicious.

 

[pure3d2]

What? I'm confused about what you're trying to say.

What about in Asia, where NFC is also widely used? Enough population for you?

If you're anti NFC, cool. Don't use it. A lot of people think it would be useful.
I'm one of them.

For Tim cook to say that NFC is in it's infancy is just ignorant. Outside of his country, it's widely embraced. HTC and Samsung (and others) seem to recognise this.

Apple? They need to get their head out of the sand (their ###).

.

I was talking about Australia since your original reply was about Australia. I can understand how you want to bring Asia (an entire continent) into the conversation after I reminded you how many (or is it how few?) people actually live in your country (in the grand scheme of things as they relate to your original comment).

 

[3282868]

Eh, that wikipedia article contains links to the original sources in this case. Look at your original quote, it looks like it's the most secure technology that has ever been developed. That alone should make you suspicious.

True, however I also quoted and sourced material that supports your claim and addresses why that may be an issue (although recent changes to NFC implementation have addressed such security flaws). As quoted, it is the responsibility of those using NFC to ensure its application is more secure, this holds true for any wireless tech. NFC is still more secure by its very nature, it is made more secure by the examples and points I listed.

 

[subsonix]

True, however I also quoted and sourced material that supports your claim and addresses why that may be an issue (although recent changes to NFC implementation have addressed such security flaws). As quoted, it is the responsibility of those using NFC to ensure its application is more secure, this holds true for any wireless tech. NFC is still more secure by its very nature, it is made more secure by the examples and points I listed.

Read your own comment, doesn't it make you feel just like a sale rep, are you?

None of those links addressed the issues here, has the ISO standard been updated, if so where is that mentioned. Phrases like "extremely secure" and "almost impossible to hack" is just..

As quoted, it is the responsibility of those using NFC to ensure its application is more secure

So, is NFC secure? It depends, maybe.


Edit:

Note that I do not intend to call out NFC as particular insecure, or claim it a reason not to use it. I just don't believe that security alone is a reason to use it. The reason I commented it is your comment: #126. I mean it's just a tad over the top no, I think it's healthy to apply some skepticism to any absolute claims about security.

 

[rlreif]

In UK i can only use 6 apps for passbook, 2 of which are non UK airlines.
I guess in US passbook is finding more use. The idea is great though and if retailers did adopt it, it would be very useful.

It is not that much better over here, actually...
Starbucks is very cool on it and is the only thing I ever really use on it... I think I once used it on United airlines, but didn't like how I had to keep handing my phone to people (the man at security checking boarding passes, the gate agent, the person who checked my bag) It would have worked much better if I could have just held onto my phone and tapped, a la NFC. At least Starbucks has a barcode reader on a long tether at the drive through so I didn't have to hand over my phone.

 

[3282868]

Read your own comment, doesn't it make you feel just like a sale rep, are you?

None of those links addressed the issues here, has the ISO standard been updated, if so where is that mentioned. Phrases like "extremely secure" and "almost impossible to hack" is just..



So, is NFC secure? It depends, maybe.

Sorry if I cam across "like a sale rep", my apologies if I offended or disrespected you in any way. I merely meant your claims are valid, as are any claims regarding wireless tech and security. I quoted sources that came up immediately as I don't have the time to spend on hours of online research. The important factor is recognizing the differing levels of security flaws between various wireless tech and how those flaws can be addressed between the two. NFC has currently demonstrated a more reasonable level of security over the current widely utilized RFID. Read my earlier comments regarding studies done, Dateline being one mainstream investigation. In that example, purchasing online RFID readers for ~$100 and using a hotel key card allowed for easy access to ones credit cards. Placing the reading inside a wallet or such and waving it near wallets and purses as RFID has a larger distance than NFC utilizes then copying those stolen accounts to hotel card keys, then using those keys at currently implemented RFID pay system as no one checked to verify it was even a credit card.

Edit:

Note that I do not intend to call out NFC as particular insecure, or claim it a reason not to use it. I just don't believe that security alone is a reason to use it. The reason I commented it is your comment: #126. I mean it's just a tad over the top no, I think it's healthy to apply some skepticism to any absolute claims about security.

Agree 100%. There is no such thing as 100% secure and that is the most important factor .

 

[linuxcooldude]

Why does a feature have to add so much benefit? Its an addition. Some may like it and find it useful. Some may not. Not that hard to understand. You either take out your credit/debit card and swipe or take out your phone. I for one find it useful. I very rarely carry cash on me. Use my debit card for just about everything. There have been times where I didnt have my debit card on me. Not a problem Ill just use my phone to pay.

Because if the customers don't see much benefit, store retailers won't either. Making it harder for them to justify the additional costs to implement them.

 

[Robert.Walter]

I thought I was the only one who still carries, and uses, cash.

But, then again, I still wear a watch...so I'm a complete troglodyte.

Did you post your comment by snail mail too?

 

[jagolden]

does photo camera or mp3 player in iphone solves any problems ?? get real...

Ah, yes, they do. No need to carry around two other, sometimes bulky, items.

 

[Shrink]

Did you post your comment by snail mail too?

Is there another way!!???

 

[ALange]

Ah, yes, they do. No need to carry around two other, sometimes bulky, items.

Yes, and NFC payments allow you to not hold wallet and cards with you.

 

[slimjimtx]

Apple should create a bank

They then should f over visa and MasterCard with their own payment system

Right! What could possibly go wrong when one company controls EVERYTHING?

 

[jagolden]

As quoted, it is the responsibility of those using NFC to ensure its application is more secure, this holds true for any wireless tech.

And there's the hitch. I fear that security implementations may make NFC as much trouble as a credit/debit card.

----------

Yes, and NFC payments allow you to not hold wallet and cards with you.

I made no mention of NFC. I am not opposed to it at all.

Still don't understand not carrying a wallet. Other cards, business cards, insurance cards, license or other from of ID, actual cash for places that don't take cards or have NFC, Triple A card, discount cards, etc.

Eventually these will all go electronic, but not there yet.

 

[alfistas]

Oh my God, I agree so much! In fact, this is the exact reason why I don't have a smartphone and instead walk around with a flip-phone in one pocket and an iPod Touch in the other.
That, and the outrageous monthly costs for a data plan and subsidizing the cost of the device.
I don't want to put all my eggs in one basket like this. Any convenience it would offer seems negligible.

I see the sarcasm there but I find you comment very amusing.

There is a great feature called ignore. If you don't like reading about Android when talking about NFC don't read the thread and stop acting like a moderator

It's not your business to "correct" other people's opinions. You do this ALL the time and it's becoming very hard to overlook...

I don't want to start another row but I genuinely think that if you weren't so abrupt and dogmatic about your views, perhaps even a bit more polite to other members, then maybe people would atl east try to listen at what you had to say to them.

Peace!

They (people) said the same with CDROM , who needs cdrom when we got Vinyls and suddenly the Vinyls was gone. The same with all the technology that we are using and will use. Physical payment cards? in 1-5 yrs u will forget about them. The same as you're not (probably) using audio cd's anymore, just high quality downloadable music files.

NFC is just another extension, to get our lives even simpler. Yes, for sure there is a lot in security by using NFC (especially payment, i disabled touch to pay option in my Mastercard, due to bank not allowing to controll "touch" payment options and lack of security on the card). If NFC will not work, we will for sure another version of it, thats how the tech world rolls.


Regarding previous topics about "who needs fingerprint sensor". Saying that "someone will steal your finger data" is plain ... bad. Most of high end pc's using this technology to secure its content. Encryption based on your finger data is way more secure that "patterns" or "pin" at the device screen. To cheat it you should probably cut other hand (which may happen, the same as someone may beat you to death asking for your password or pattern to unlock device).

NFC is an failry old technology (2006 was first device (Nokia phone) with NFC), as for now, most of the phones have it - instead of apple devices.
Combaining it with fingerprint sensor , makes UBER secure payment device, UBER secure data on device protection and easier to use software/hardware connectivity, purchasing etc.

Most of you should just look around whats going on in tech world instead of posting here a stupid comments like "i dont need it" , "i dont like it" ... u WILL use it and YOU"RE probably already doing it.

Thats my 2c

Not sure what your comment has to do with anything I wrote, but since you quoted me...

Hi! Welcome to MacRumors!

I am going to make no presumptions about your personal methods of paying for services,

I use the same methods as everyone else. Debit cards, credit cards, pre-paid Visas, Visa Electron, Paypal, Web banking, Cash. I also accept payments through all the above (Except Checks).

...but I think there are certainly people who fall in the category of being willing to let the waiter walk away with their credit card and run the bill. They certainly have ample time to take down all relevant information for using your cards. How about giving your social as well as credit card info to a medical office? What about that 4 digit pin (same as the 4 digit lock code on mobile devices) used to pull money out of an ATM?

At the end of the day, losing your phone is less risky than losing your wallet, especially if the phone is passcode locked (and most NFC type deals require a second passcode to get past). The odds of some person finding your phone, somehow hacking it, and then getting into your bank information are far less than said person just getting the needed information right from your card. For the people that literally do everything in front of a live teller and never use plastic, only cash, I can respect your paranoia. Otherwise you are assuming this tech is automatically less safe than the tech that has been around for decades already.

I thought you weren't gonna make any presumptions...

He was correcting someone's point and they had wrong info. Whats wrong with that.

It's not his business to correct anyone. If he feels that someone has been seriously misinformed then he is free to share his information in a civilized and polite manner. Anything beyond that is bullying and certainly against forum rules.

Im confused. Are you referring to NFC or just anything tied to your mobile device? Cause if your referring to NFC and your phone died....well your credit/debit card or cash would still work...
Not directed at you but seems like some people make it sound like if NFC does take off they HAVE to use it and cant use anything else.

I have never used NFC and I have no opinion over it. If it works like a pre-paid visa or Paypal then I'd probably take advantage of this extra functionality. If it works like a debit card replacement where the info in the software is directly linked to my bank account then I'll hold off until all the kinks have been sorted out.

I think I'm being perfectly reasonable.

 

[Ciclismo]

I'm not sure about adoption rates, but isn't it kind of a chicken or the egg thing? And Apple's passbook app is a waste right now. Completely useless.

Funny you should say that, because my experiences in Europe have been to the contrary. I use Passbook all the time for flights (most Star-Alliance airlines), rental cars (Sixt) and coupons.

On the other hand, I have tried in vain to use the NFC feature in my CC since I received an enabled card over a year ago (and I have tried hard).

 

[ChristianVirtual]

it takes sooooo much time to use a credit card or cash to purchase something.

Thanks for (dis)agreeing ... But actually it takes quite some time plus others.

Last summer I had three weeks training in NJ and took several times the train to/from Penn Station. There was always a long line in front of the ticket counter and ticket machines. That's maybe ok for a train going once an hour.

Now take public transportation in Tokyo. Millions of people in bus and train each morning first line up on ticket vending machine, buy tickets with coins, insert the ticket while entering and leaving the tracks, that cumulates to quite some waiting time.

Beside the time for process that for each individual it's also a huge waste in the backend. Someone have to collect all those coins; and all the tickets are waste (!) after onetime use.

That's why for me NFC is a very useful addition to daily life; much more useful compared to fingerprint sensors. Still have a credit card and cash. But use it for different situations.

 

[TokyoDriver]

Once you use e-cash, you will never go back

In Japan, mobile payment is really advanced.
You can purchase drink from vending machine to buy hardwares at electronic stores with only your cell phone.
Just tap it to the device on the counter and you're done.

Its "infancy" in North America but its alive all over the world.

Load up your card and do not have to worry about coins or exact change. Plus, you can get a printout of your expenses.

It may be in the "infancy stage" in North America, but we are sprinting over here.

 

[yusukeaoki]

Load up your card and do not have to worry about coins or exact change. Plus, you can get a printout of your expenses.

It may be in the "infancy stage" in North America, but we are sprinting over here.

?
Thats exactly what I said.

 

[gpat]

Smartphones were in their infancy too when the iPhone came out.

No.

 

[jasvncnt]

I see the sarcasm there but I find you comment very amusing.



It's not your business to "correct" other people's opinions. You do this ALL the time and it's becoming very hard to overlook...

I don't want to start another row but I genuinely think that if you weren't so abrupt and dogmatic about your views, perhaps even a bit more polite to other members, then maybe people would atl east try to listen at what you had to say to them.

Peace!



Not sure what your comment has to do with anything I wrote, but since you quoted me...

Hi! Welcome to MacRumors!



I use the same methods as everyone else. Debit cards, credit cards, pre-paid Visas, Visa Electron, Paypal, Web banking, Cash. I also accept payments through all the above (Except Checks).



I thought you weren't gonna make any presumptions...



It's not his business to correct anyone. If he feels that someone has been seriously misinformed then he is free to share his information in a civilized and polite manner. Anything beyond that is bullying and certainly against forum rules.



I have never used NFC and I have no opinion over it. If it works like a pre-paid visa or Paypal then I'd probably take advantage of this extra functionality. If it works like a debit card replacement where the info in the software is directly linked to my bank account then I'll hold off until all the kinks have been sorted out.

I think I'm being perfectly reasonable.

And thats what he did in the post I was talking about. Not sure what your referring to. He was correcting someone about Android Beam. And its not your business to say what can be and can not be corrected on a public forum