Tim Cook Ordered to Attend 7-Hour Deposition in Apple vs. Epic Games Lawsuit

[jumpcutking]

This is a very interesting battle - going on... I'm curious to hear how this goes. Epic "a big corporation" is battling another "big corporation" under the guise of "unfair" practices. 30% of total revenue of a purchase.

The industry players Android, Sony, Xbox, even other stores seem to think that's a fair value. I've seen stores charge as much as 60% for like purchases.

However, I understand the feeling of trying to minimize cost.

 

[AmazingTechGeek]

It’s ironic because fortnite started development on macs and was announced via an Apple Event. Crazy how years later the relationship has changed.

 

[Wildkraut]

The show must go on...
Apple will finally face the reality, and there is no reality distortion field to help them out of this one.
And with Apple Silicon M1 + BigSur they just have proven that it's no problem to open up iOS and keep the OS secure.
All just about $$$

 

[michaelsviews]

Ohh just so your country has return policy doesn’t mean every country has one. From where I live, you don’t get to return a product once you bought it. You can only have it replaced it is has factory defect within 7 days. There is no ‘this product is not for me let me get my money back’

Bummer, but how would anyone in this forum know where you live and what the return policies are?

 

[michaelsviews]

You paid for you phone in full price. It is not a rent-phone. Apple has no right to tell you what you can use an what you cannot

NO I did NOT pay full price for my phone for starters and if I'm using apps off of the Apple app store they have all the right to dictate what apps are allowed and not. I'm sure it's written is an agreement for app developers.

 

[Wildkraut]

NO I did NOT pay full price for my phone for starters and if I'm using apps off of the Apple app store they have all the right to dictate what apps are allowed and not. I'm sure it's written is an agreement for app developers.

Not everything stated in an agreement has weight or is legally right. At least here in the EU.
E.g Microsoft and its Software Eula, in EU you can resell a used licensed Windows, but their Eula states you can't.
This part was simply suspended by law.

 

[Jimmy James]

“feels frustrating” is not a criteria a judge should use.

 

[michaelsviews]

Not everything stated in an agreement has weight or is legally right. At least here in the EU.
E.g Microsoft and its Software Eula, in EU you can resell a used licensed Windows, but their Eula states you can't.
This part was simply suspended by law.

Informative. Have a great day

 

[Jimmy James]

Unrelated entirely to this circumstance or Apple, this sounds kind of slimy just as a general observation about businesses. What am I missing about why this is a thing?

Apple's concession came after its lawyers attempted to cite the "apex doctrine," which prevents a high-level corporate employee from being deposed.

What happens if one hundred, or more, plaintiffs ask for the CEO to be deposed? Then, he’s not longer the ceo.

I also imagine that the top position is not always the best person for the job. They’re a very high level generalist, not a specialist.

 

[MrDerby01]

I’d rather see Apple investigated for subpar quality of some of their devices and NOT with this trivial Epic stuff.

Apple really needs to be broken up.

 

[I7guy]

Apple really needs to be broken up.

FWIW, Not going to happen is my guess.

 

[Homme]

Yup.

Abject failures like AirPods and the M1 chip are here to remind us how terrible for Apple Cook is.

A “failure” like Airpods is not only the most popular wireless headphones sold out there but also revolutionized the headset market when it comes to seamless connectivity

as of M1 people have praised the chip and it has Intel engineers on edge because of how Apple did it so well. I can tell your a die hard Intel Fan, luckily die hard Intel fans are in a small small minority.

 

[gnasher729]

Not everything stated in an agreement has weight or is legally right. At least here in the EU.
E.g Microsoft and its Software Eula, in EU you can resell a used licensed Windows, but their Eula states you can't.
This part was simply suspended by law.

Interesting. In the USA, copyright law doesn't allow you to sell a computer after you upgraded the software. And Apple's EULA explicitly gives you permission. (But then they stopped charging money for OS updates quite a while ago, so stopping you from selling would be pointless).

Also in the USA, if you can't read the EULA when you buy software, then you don't have the right to use the software without agreeing to the EULA, but you MUST be allowed to return the software and get your money back. (On the AppStore, you _can_ read the license before you accept it. The developer can have an additional license, but an additional license can only give you more rights).

 

[UnkownArtist]

You missed the point: Apple certainly can do whatever they want in their app store. No doubt. The key point is apple doesn't allow any other store run on their phones. And there is no fair reason with that.

For whatever arguments you want to use, I will beat you in one sentence: macOs allows that!

And monopoly is not necessary to a whole market. For all iOS users, who paid for their devices, the monopoly on app store is very clear.

Again: Mercedes got fined by monopoly spare parts. They have much less market share comparing to Apple

I agree and understand what the point is, but you also need to realise that Apple has built a device that users can rely on with no viruses and non-optimized apps. MacOs is different. A computer is different than a phone, you cannot compare apple's iPhone to there mac's. The app store is a location that users can always rely on to get an app they need. Fast. Simple and easily.

Allowing users to use other app-stores than the AppStore just makes apple non-secure and possibly unoptimized for its devices allowing possible viruses onto the device and leaving the user experience to nothing. I would compare google or Samsung and say what if they started using a 3rd party webstore on their devices? But no other company cares enough for there webstores enough like apple does. Those other competitors rely on other devices and extra features to encourage the user to go download stuff from the internet onto the device (Phone) instead of focusing on improving there appstore as apple has over the years.

 

[MowgliWolf]

Hahaha that should be fun, it’s like sending a great white to a mackerel kindergarten

 

[usbwire]

Yup.

Abject failures like AirPods and the M1 chip are here to remind us how terrible for Apple Cook is.

How the hell is the M1 a failure? It’s been very successful and popular. I don’t get your point?
Even with the AirPods comment, they’re everywhere. I get the AirPods Max aren’t that popular and overpriced but the other AirPods and AirPods Pro are extremely successful.

 

[kingfish78]

Wrong. I’m sure many mechanics could put a Toyota engine in a Honda.
None can run other OS’s on a iPhone

I think the guys working on Project Sandcastle at Corellium would disagree. They put Android on an iPhone. It will make its way to market as long as there was no illegal reverse engineering of software code. When it does, Apple handsets will be the best Android phones on the market as well.

 

[Karma*Police]

...because Apple is an abusive monopolist, with prior convictions for antitrust violation, and has been convicted in multiple international jurisdictions of deceiving customers with regards to their rights under various consumer laws.

Hmmm... I think you need to look up the definition of monopolist. The world is a very corrupt place, I agree, but I think the actor(s) you should be suspicious of is the government, just as much as, if not more than, big corporations.

Running out of money because governments aren't capable of managing budgets? Let's find a reason to sue rich businesses!

If Apple were as deceptive as you seem to think, people would have stopped buying their products long ago, and they would not be the world's most valuable and admired company in the world, year after year.

 

[kingfish78]

I think you have misunderstanding. What app the phone can run should be decided by the user not Apple. It is so obviously that website lacks of notification and weak on interaction comparing to App.

There is no inherent right for a company to be allowed to develop and resell software for another company's Operating System. That is a privilege afforded by one company to another based on a legally-binding contract. One party disregarded that contract, broke that contract, and was cut off from distributing their product because of the violation. Those are facts and are not in dispute. The legal question is whether the contract should be non-binding because it was in and of itself illegal. Epic is attempting to prove the contract was illegal because Apple is using an alleged monopolistic position in an unfair and anti-competitive manner. That is the reason that it was necessary for Epic to also sue Google, because the terms of both contracts are very similar and take a 30% cut. This is not an issue of Epic trying to "free unsuspecting customers from the grasp of big evil Apple." It's a money grab to try and get themselves installed as an alternative game store on Apple's platform where they will in-turn milk developers for the distribution fee (however much it is).

 

[kingfish78]

Sure, there is an army of mechanics that can actually put a Toyota engine in a Honda without actually making the car into a Toyota. As I'm sure there are sufficiently clever people who can load their own o/s on an iphone, we just haven't heard of it.

It's coming...

https://projectsandcastle.org

 

[Ethosik]

Apple Watch, AirPods, silicon Macs would like a word with you.

Also, rumors of adding ports back to newer laptops, removing Touch Bar, bringing back Mag Safe and bringing back another better priced monitor. Seems like they have gotten an earful from many businesses and professionals.

 

[Wildkraut]

Interesting. In the USA, copyright law doesn't allow you to sell a computer after you upgraded the software. And Apple's EULA explicitly gives you permission. (But then they stopped charging money for OS updates quite a while ago, so stopping you from selling would be pointless).

Also in the USA, if you can't read the EULA when you buy software, then you don't have the right to use the software without agreeing to the EULA, but you MUST be allowed to return the software and get your money back. (On the AppStore, you _can_ read the license before you accept it. The developer can have an additional license, but an additional license can only give you more rights).

Well, it was just a well known example: https://www.usedsoft.com/en/used-Software/Legal-situation/
MS,Adobe had it in their Eula(agreement), but they faced the law.

Everybody can set agreements as they like, but doesn't mean they are valid by law.
That's why they all include severability clauses, to make sure the rest of their agreements don't become invalid, too.
These companies know their Eulas and agreements has many non-sense stuff.

 

[Ethosik]

..and what if I don't want it...no alternative? What if I don't want to use the app store, still no alterative? It may be a license only but you're still forced to use it and the hardware useless without it.

Uh you get the product that fits your needs? Seriously, I don't think anyone is going out and buying a Surface Pro system and demanding Apple support macOS on it. If you don't like iOS, don't get an iPhone.

I don't like Sony's OS on the PS5. Can I install the Xbox OS on it?

 

[kingfish78]

If Apple is a software company that sells hardware, as Jobs is so often quoted, than I expect the majority of the cost of a Mac to be refunded. Just like when you buy a Windows PC.

What Windows PC did you get a refund for? I sure didn't get any money back from Microsoft when I purchased either of my Surface Pros. Nor did I get anything back from HP for the cost of my notebook.

 

[Ethosik]

Your comment compares to “don’t like our laws go to another country.” That’s not how things work.

Uh actually yes. I don't like Chinese laws, especially how controlling they are.