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Tim Cook Pens Open Letter on Tax Evasion Claims, Says Apple is Confident Decision 'Will be Reversed'

At the end of the day this amount is chump change to Apple.
They could do the right thing and pay it and get at least some respect from the world.
They could also drag this out and generate even more bad feelings toward a company that has not done itself any favours over the past few years.

It will be an interesting Keynote though.
 
keysofanxiety said:
Can't say you're getting much sympathy here, Timmy.

You've been hosing customers for years with high prices and (still expensive) entry-level products that just don't perform to an Apple standard. You've been making ludicrous profit margins on every product and building up a wall of cash to sit on. You've been smashing down on suppliers to lower the costs even further, yet maintain those same high prices and margins on products.

You raise prices in countries when the exchange rate is having a few hiccups, when if anything, they should be lowered due to the age of the tech. As you're not an engineer or even a Mac user, you have no appreciation of how much difference even a simple Fusion drive can make in entry-level Mac Minis, for an utterly negligible cost. You do all this and still sniff your own farts about Apple being the best company in the world and make products that enrich people's lives.

Even with all this considered, I've been defending Apple left, right, and centre where I believe it's applicable.

But now that we find out Apple have been paying 0.005% tax on European sales? The deep realisation has hit me that you couldn't give a damn about your customers' experience, and no amount of money or profits will ever be enough for you, or convince you to appropriately put back into the products you sell.

For what utterly little it's worth (and it is very, very, very little to you, I'm sure), you've turned this passionate Apple fan and defender into a jaded, listless user, praying that his 2012 MBP won't die.
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Nobody ever forced you to buy an Apple product - your argument is ridiculous.
 
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Sonmi451 said:
Nobody ever forced you to buy an Apple product - your argument is ridiculous.
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It's a statement. He's putting forward a general feeling about the Apple of today, a company that many have faithfully followed and spent a lot of cash on over many many years.

Not an argument.
 
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ohbrilliance said:
I fully understand how tax works. The issue is that profits have been diverted to low or almost zero tax rate markets that are neither the country of sale or the country that Apple is based in, depriving both of those countries of taxable profits and therefore tax at the applicable rate.
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I don't think you full understand if the first statement that you make is factually incorrect.

The majority of the profits are "diverted" to the U.S. Here is a chart from the EU in this FAQ.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...5-billion-eu-tax-ruling-what-you-need-to-know
 
KPOM said:
Time for Ireland to join Britain in leaving the EU!
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Actually the worry I have is that the UK will be free to become a tax haven once we're free from the EU. The Tories would just love that to happen. We'd be stuffed full of tax dodging multi nationals in no time.
 
jhende7 said:
Which is their prerogative in a global market. Apple gets globally favorable tax treatment and in turn provides thousands of jobs to the Irish economy. So, umm what is your point exactly?
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That what I wrote: what is the difference between someone illegaly not wanting to pay taxes and someone that can force a gov to accept not paying taxes? Its only the size that is different.

Or do you think ireland (as cook claims) voluntarily just for apple dropped it from 12.5->1->0.05 %?

And what thousands of jobs do you think are involed to electronicly book all profits made in ireland? The coorporate entity only exists on paper, not something with thousands of employees.


Wrong again, every country has to pay a fee to belong to the EU. Don't you think for a second the EU would be investing this much in this investigation if there wasn't some kind of monetary incentive.
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The fee is based on the GDP of the country and goes to general funds of the EU. This is simply apple being ordredd to pay taxes to ireland.

Seeing that ireland is also a net reciever of EU money, they simply would have gotten less aid.

Do tell where/how/how much the EU would be getting from this 13billion and lining its pockets with this 'Big cut' it wants.


Your 3 for 3 in being flat out wrong. Yes, Ireland is part of the EU, but as part of the treaties that were signed, member countries are responsible for their own taxation policies...not the EU.
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Ireland signed an agreement stating it shall not give aid to companies that dont need it or without EU approval.

Letting a company pay virtually no taxes falls under that and has been deemed illegal by the EU department responsible for this.

Its not the first time the EU has done this and wont be the last time.

Ireland/apple is of course free to apeal this or go to higher courts and try to lower or get this deemed illegal.



Just crazy that you would post all this without knowing the facts.
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I would be carefull by making such statement when you obviously have no clue what you are talking about.
 
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Lord Hamsa said:
1) Apple is a publicly traded company, and as such, has a fiduciary responsibility to its shareholders to use any legal means to minimize its tax liabilities.

2) Ireland's current tax laws that Apple is taking advantage of may or may not need to be updated based on how things have changed since they were first written. Whether they should be or not is a subjective matter that can be discussed by all stakeholder parties, and any changes made need to be in line with other Ireland and EU governing policies.

3) However, the EU simply cannot retrospectively change Ireland tax laws on what they think they should have been. The only relevant question is did Apple follow existing Ireland tax law correctly? If so, they cannot impose a retroactive tax on Apple. The EU does have leverage to drive changes to Ireland's tax policies moving forward, though.

4) This type of ham-handed extra-legislative action by the EU is exactly the type of thing that got the "Brexit" stuff started (and even passed). If the EU bureaucrats continue to overstep their boundaries and supersede the legislatures and courts of the member countries, they're going to continue to find themselves with fewer member countries (and more to the point, the net tax-paying countries that can both afford to leave and have the biggest impact when they do).
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Very well written. Nice work.
 
Lord Hamsa said:
1) Apple is a publicly traded company, and as such, has a fiduciary responsibility to its shareholders to use any legal means to minimize its tax liabilities.

2) Ireland's current tax laws that Apple is taking advantage of may or may not need to be updated based on how things have changed since they were first written. Whether they should be or not is a subjective matter that can be discussed by all stakeholder parties, and any changes made need to be in line with other Ireland and EU governing policies.

3) However, the EU simply cannot retrospectively change Ireland tax laws on what they think they should have been. The only relevant question is did Apple follow existing Ireland tax law correctly? If so, they cannot impose a retroactive tax on Apple. The EU does have leverage to drive changes to Ireland's tax policies moving forward, though.

4) This type of ham-handed extra-legislative action by the EU is exactly the type of thing that got the "Brexit" stuff started (and even passed). If the EU bureaucrats continue to overstep their boundaries and supersede the legislatures and courts of the member countries, they're going to continue to find themselves with fewer member countries (and more to the point, the net tax-paying countries that can both afford to leave and have the biggest impact when they do).
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Before ANYTHING else. Apple has a responsibility to make money safely AND ethically.
Put TC on the spot and see if he says any different.
 
The EU is overstepping its authority in an attempt to bring socialism to Ireland. It's none of their business how much the sovereign country of Ireland chooses to tax any company registered and doing business there.
 
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thewitt said:
The EU is overstepping its authority in an attempt to bring socialism to Ireland. It's none of their business how much the sovereign country of Ireland chooses to tax any company registered and doing business there.
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Sonmi451 said:
Nobody ever forced you to buy an Apple product - your argument is ridiculous.
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To both of you, hypothetical conceptual conversation topic: Would you personally hand out money and special treatment to Apple or any other big company with those profit margins?

Knowing that, if the EU represents its people, and most people disagree with handouts to big companies that won't often hire there but place money there for the sole purpose of not paying due taxes (the whole of government and what it pays for, even purportedly protecting Apple and its interests abroad)...

?

Or, like the song goes, "Money for nothing ♪ ♫"
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ericwn said:
Right, taxes are communism. Great contribution.
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Especially when those same people think it's A-OK when they take other peoples' money (e.g. what goes into 401k plans, corporate welfare, etc) and squander it on their personal selves instead of reinvesting in the company... Kinda sad, actually...
 
Good.
Pay your God-damned taxes like the rest of us, Apple!
Tim Cook: social crusader (outside of China) and worlds greediest bastard.
 
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d0minick said:
lol such bs. pay up. Everyone says Apple should only pay what is law. Well the law has been laid down.
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Actually, it's not over until it's been appealed. Also part of the law. I think Apple should pay more, I don't think they should be singled out as the only company doing this...and I certainly believe that all of the hate they're getting here is ridiculous.
 
Iconoclysm said:
I don't think they should be singled out as the only company doing this...
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Rest assured: the EU checks on Starbucks and FiatChrysler the same. Think I read about Google as well. I guess those make it into the papers because of their sheer size and not just because they're the only ones.

Besides that, I'm confused that so many don't understand the basic premises of how a union works. Everybody for themselves, right? Since Ireland is getting more money from the EU fonds than it pays into them I'd say they wanted to eat the cake and keep it too - and that's not gonna fly. Rightfully so I might add.
 
Anybody who can allow an in-app purchase of £79.99 on a free child's game has limited morals.

Apple did what they could get away with (so would I) but please Apple stop playing the moral, environmental game. It's boring now.
 
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