Tim Cook Responds to Report on Working Conditions at Suppliers' Factories

[madmaxmedia]

You mean impossible to do if they want to keep making money hand over fist? But then again, no one is suggesting they move out of China either.

Apple has many, many, MANY suppliers at any given point in time.

I agree they should strive for higher compliance percentage. But that takes time too. These are separate companies that Apple buys parts from, Apple doesn't directly control their factories.

Wherever they go in China or elsewhere, the same financial factors will be in effect that often compel manufacturers, factory foremen, etc. to cut corners to save money, increase production, make more money.

To even have a compliance policy and go overseas to conduct audits is something unimaginable for most companies. I'm not saying Apple is doing the best job possible, but to suggest they are completely inert on this is taking it too far to the opposite extreme IMO.

What would be really interesting IMO, is if this holiday season the iPad 3 suddenly went on 6 to 8 week backorder, because Apple cancelled orders from a particular supplier and the factory production was shut down, due to noncompliance. The public reaction would be very interesting (from all different sides.)

----------

You mean impossible to do if they want to keep making money hand over fist? But then again, no one is suggesting they move out of China either.

And no, I don't mean impossible if they want to keep making money hand over fist. I mean Steve Jobs said it basically couldn't be done (production in the USA), and that it wasn't coming back.

I already pointed out it has nothing to do with money, it has to do with infrastructure and labor pool.

 

[samcraig]

What would be interesting IMO, is if this holiday season the iPad 3 went on 6 to 8 week backorder, because Apple cancelled orders from a particular supplier and the factory production was shut down, due to noncompliance. The public reaction would be very interesting (from all different sides.)

It would be interesting. It would be interesting if they were transparent and issued a statement stating that unfortunately - for the first XX weeks the iPad 3 will be in short supply - that they apologize - but that they simply couldn't continue manufacturing them at location they were because of unsafe conditions.

I think, for Apple - it would be tremendous PR. And anyone "bitching" about not being able to get one would look pretty petty.

 

[madmaxmedia]

It would be interesting. It would be interesting if they were transparent and issued a statement stating that unfortunately - for the first XX weeks the iPad 3 will be in short supply - that they apologize - but that they simply couldn't continue manufacturing them at location they were because of unsafe conditions.

I think they would be transparent, because there is essentially no reason for them not to, and by explaining the reason they would deflect blame and frustration about iPad unavailability.

I think, for Apple - it would be tremendous PR. And anyone "bitching" about not being able to get one would look pretty petty.

Completely agreed.

 

[Battlefield Fan]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-january-16-2012/fear-factory

enough said

 

[rileyes]

This probably won't be a popular reply, but having lived for 5 years in China for purchasing in the furniture industry, i'd like to say working conditions in China are really not that bad.

ive seen hundreds of factories from Guangdong, to Shanghai, Wenzhou, Chengdu and Hangzhou. Ive come accross one time a case of child labour. Only once. Of course we did not cooperate with this factory and made very clear they should stop this at once.

Working and living conditions improve every single year, and a lot has to do with the lack of workers in for ex. Guangdong province. If a worker is badly treated, they will simply pack up and go and work for a different factory. There are so many factories and they all desperately need workers to work for them. Chinese wages go up and the dormitories improve vastly.

Just going to take a shot in the dark and say that I don't think the furniture manufacturing industry has quite the same urgency in getting new products out. For example, getting the latest and greatest model of sofa to market before the competition does is not really something furniture manufacturers have to worry about.

On the other hand, with high tech manufacturing, time to market can make or break the the success of the product launch. What if all the new features on the iphone 4S took an extra 6 months to manufacture? Your 'new' product would be out of date before it even hit the market. That's why working conditions are so poor.

I have no doubt conditions in China are bad across all industries, but my guess is that the difference is night and day between the tech industry and the furniture industry.

 

[Kaibelf]

So, he responds with denial. "That's not who we are." Don't forget, Tim Cook was one of the main architects of moving all of Apple's manufacturing from the U.S. to China back in 2002. He is undoubtedly more ruthless, and apparently more dishonest, than Steve Jobs himself.

Signed, the sad owner of a Macbook Pro, an iPad, and an iPod touch.

Ruthless? Those changes saved the company because when everything was made in the USA it was so expensive no one bought it. Be glad they came along so that you even HAVE a MBP, ipad, and ipod touch to be sad about.

 

[AidenShaw]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-january-16-2012/fear-factory

enough said

That's priceless, as is much of the Daily Show.

 

[thecartoonguy]

Covering his a**. Instead of writing letters, Tim. Do something about it. Just like Steve said he'd do something about it and did absolutely nothing to stop the atrocities. It's said that all it takes is a letter to make the fanboys happy.

Actually they did! It was Apple who subsidized the employees pay. It was Apple who demanded better working conditions. But of course considering you use the term fanboys proves several things-

1. You have no clue about the facts of a particular issue.
2. You choose not to read or do not know how.
3. The second point reenforces point 1 and your attitude about business and world affairs.

 

[rileyes]

And no, I don't mean impossible if they want to keep making money hand over fist. I mean Steve Jobs said it basically couldn't be done (production in the USA), and that it wasn't coming back.

I already pointed out it has nothing to do with money, it has to do with infrastructure and labor pool.

That's just silly. Of course it has to do with money.

If apple built a manufacturing plant in the United States tomorrow, you don't a labor pool would develop? You don't think manufacturing infrastructure for related industries would start to move in next door?

Just like it has always been, people and businesses go where the money is, and people get the education they need for the jobs that are available.

Apple (and others) won't manufacture in the united states not because they can't, but because they couldn't compete with the companies that don't. i.e. their products would cost more than their competition (even more than they already do), and their products would take longer to get to market (which is a huge deal in the technology industry).

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

Well we can all close our wallets, then they will hear us.

 

[Ryth]

Well for one - I am a stockholder. So I believe that gives me the right to question how Apple runs their business.

So am I.

I don't think I have a say in what Apple does with their business since I'm not on their BoD or a majority stock holder.

You know...most people would tell you...if you don't like how they do business, then why are you still a stockholder. Speak with action...not words. Sell your stock.

So I assume you sold your stock immediately when you found out about these atrocities right?

I mean if you didn't...you realize even more how much of a hypocrite you are.

Lets see some action here instead of useless drivel. But we know you won't sell your stock. So the hypocrite tag definitely applies here.

I never said anything about how China should run their businesses

But you are because you are saying Apple needs to do XYZ. Some things Apple cannot change in the way other countries do business. Therefore you are telling another country how to run their country and their labor practices.

I never said I knew what was best. I said that I would like Apple to keep good on their "manifesto"

You seem to be spouting what you know is best. They are keeping good on their manifesto. Just like in the real world..it's much harder to do in reality...just like most people say they want to accomplish this or that, when reality happens they realize how much harder it is. At least Apple acknowledges this with transparency and continuing to improve.

 

[stevensr123]

So let me get this strait, most of you are complaining about apple's "policy" yet are still buying their products, Knowing this is all happening? Well can I just point out that anyone who has this view is a MASSIVE hypocrite.

If you have those views, stand by your principles and stop buying iPhones, iPads and any other goods that suffer from a similar "situation".

Apple is in a lose-lose situation, If they pull out, and move production to the united states/western world, they would charge far more $$$$$ for there products, then everyone who start complaining it's too costly.


When I went to thailand last year, the 1st thing I noticed was poverty, people not having jobs thus not being able to receive medical treatment etc

I saw people with no legs AND no arms begging, Well let me tell you this, These people would probably give up an arm for a job at foxconn. It's a stable job and in terms of money, it's probably a lot of money for them compared to other similar jobs.

We says the working conditions etc are terrible, but we are sitting behind are keyboards, in are loverly warm homes etc

That is just OUR point of view, what about theirs? These guys are not forced to take this job, they probably think it's an actually good job to work in.

 

[fertilized-egg]

So let me get this strait, most of you are complaining about apple's "policy" yet are still buying their products, Knowing this is all happening? Well can I just point out that anyone who has this view is a MASSIVE hypocrite.

Not to mention virtually every major electronics company is using Chinese labour to some extent, often the same companies that Apple uses.

I do think it's good thing the consumers are giving more attention to the matter. I just don't like Apple getting all the blame while doing more than other companies who are absolved of the blame just because they have less people who are obsessed with criticizing them at the moment.

Then again if this happened 15 years ago and Microsoft had xbox back then, we'd be hearing how Microsoft is using chinese slave labour to make xbox endlessly on TV while others get free pass. Just as companies come and go, hating a company is also a cyclical fad to an extent.

 

[madmaxmedia]

I agree they could move production back to the USA, but it would be a long-term project. That's the clear impression I get from reading the NY Times article about production, infrastructure, and labor. Apple develops a new product, and can get a brand new line with thousands of workers mobilized in weeks to produce that product.

But you're right- it can be done. If Apple announced that they intended produce iPads in the United States, there would be plenty of suitors and movement towards making it possible.

Your last paragraph though, is basically along the lines of what I originally meant. I mean yes, you could make iPads RIGHT now in the USA, starting tomorrow. But not in quantities and costs that would be remotely economically feasible- isn't that the same as saying Apple can't make iPads in the USA? Not exactly the same, but the net result is the same.

That's just silly. Of course it has to do with money.

If apple built a manufacturing plant in the United States tomorrow, you don't a labor pool would develop? You don't think manufacturing infrastructure for related industries would start to move in next door?

Just like it has always been, people and businesses go where the money is, and people get the education they need for the jobs that are available.

Apple (and others) won't manufacture in the united states not because they can't, but because they couldn't compete with the companies that don't. i.e. their products would cost more than their competition (even more than they already do), and their products would take longer to get to market (which is a huge deal in the technology industry).

 

[samcraig]

So am I.

I don't think I have a say in what Apple does with their business since I'm not on their BoD or a majority stock holder.

You know...most people would tell you...if you don't like how they do business, then why are you still a stockholder. Speak with action...not words. Sell your stock.

So I assume you sold your stock immediately when you found out about these atrocities right?

I mean if you didn't...you realize even more how much of a hypocrite you are.

Lets see some action here instead of useless drivel. But we know you won't sell your stock. So the hypocrite tag definitely applies here.



But you are because you are saying Apple needs to do XYZ. Some things Apple cannot change in the way other countries do business. Therefore you are telling another country how to run their country and their labor practices.



You seem to be spouting what you know is best. They are keeping good on their manifesto. Just like in the real world..it's much harder to do in reality...just like most people say they want to accomplish this or that, when reality happens they realize how much harder it is. At least Apple acknowledges this with transparency and continuing to improve.

Sorry - but what's the timeline allowed for someone to make a decision on whether or not to sell their stock? An hour after reading this thread. 24 hours? A week? How long is someone allowed to wait to see if a company responds.

Sorry if I am not an extremist. That doesn't make me a hypocrite. I haven't sold my stock because I am not a reactionist extreme. I will wait to see what/how Apple responds over time and then judge whether or not I want to support such a company.

If that makes me a hypocrite - then so be it. But I don't think that's hypocrisy. I think it's being a rational adult. Things aren't black and white. You're like one of those people who tell someone they should just sell their phone and get an android because I complain about a battery issue or whatever issue.

And as a stockholder - you do have a say. That's why you get a vote. Saying you have no say is like saying an individual voter has no say in how their government is run. That's ridiculous. My individual vote might not be significant in getting anything done... but that doesn't = not HAVING a vote/say.

 

[ChrisA]

Apple could solve this problem in a week. Simply say they will reduce payments to a supplier if their is a violation. If the reductions were large enough there would be no violations.

 

[krzyglue]

Slurpy2k8 didn't say Apple is perfect or even satisfactory in this regard. But that they are doing far more than other Foxconn-using corps. There was a mass suicide threat from workers who were making Microsoft xbox. As far as I can tell, Microsoft has done nothing to remedy the issue. How come they get a free pass while Apple, after doing far more than Microsoft, get all the blame? Sounds more like a blind hatred.

Seriously whenever I try and understand this whole situation, Apple's responsibility and the coverage they're receiving, or what have you, my head just starts hurting.

It's interesting, as the story Forbes ran about the suicide threat showed the workers protesting holding iPad mockups, not Xboxes. And yet of course Microsoft cannot be absolved of any responsibility if Apple is to be held responsible for their suppliers. True, Microsoft has gotten next to no coverage regarding this issue - definitely a strange issue. I'd love to hear someone who has experience in this field, or is studying something like this, give their opinion. (What field is this even, media studies?)

However, if posting a link to Apple's Corporate site is a valid defense, then I suppose I'll help Microsoft out by posting theirs: http://www.microsoft.com/about/corporatecitizenship/en-us/working-responsibly/responsible-sourcing/ One standard, right? Look please do not accuse me of being a Microsoft "fanboi" or whatever, but at first glance their overall corporate citizenship site looks much more impressive than Apple's. I mean, all Apple has is that supplier responsibility page. They don't seem to be doing anything else.

As for the greater issue at hand of outsourcing jobs, I am not sure I can have an informed opinion. And judging by many posts here, I am not sure many have informed ones either. While fundamentally I presume we would all like to buy things exclusively manufactured in our home countries (not everyone is American so I won't say the USA), this is simply not possible. Jobs in certain sectors will be lost to overseas suppliers. Yet as I sit in my Economics lecture, I am told again and again that international trade done properly has a net-benefit for both parties. Alas I will have to defer my opinion, as those much more learned than me have no answers. Why would I?

 

[ditzy]

I've spent a long time thinking about this issue. It is obvious to me that the conditions of the people that make Apple's products need to be improved. Apple could do this. Apple should do this.
Should I boycott Apple's products until they change their practices? Probably, really I should. Guess this means that I have to buy replacements for my phone, computer and tablet. Products where the workers have at no point in the process been treated as bad, or worse than Foxconn.
Back to my less shiny than before apple products.
I don't believe the, everyone else is doing it, so it's ok for Apple to, argument. I believe the, everybody's doing it, and they're all wrong, argument.
When it comes to gadgets, there isn't an ethical choice. Other than not buying any, I'm honest enough to say that isn't a choice that I am ever going to take. I deserve what ever criticism you give me for that choice.
I guess after rambling on, it's come down to two questions. Should I feel guilty about buying gadgets? Yes. Should I feel more guilty about buying an iPhone, rather than say a Galaxy Nexus? No not really.

 

[Dmunjal]

I'm surprised no one is mentioning the currency issue. The dollar is probably overvalued by at least 50% given our financial condition but because of reserve currency status, we are able to delay this restructuring. Imagine Chinese workers doubling their purchasing power and wealth overnight. This would certainly improve the standard of living there. Of course, all for our imported products woud double in price, too.

 

[jackc]

People still want to work for these factories, don't they?

Time to start cutting wages! Get those iPad prices down!

 

[GenesisST]

Not only this, but Americans don't want those jobs.

There are times I wish I had a brainless job...

But then I think about it and if I worked in manufacturing, my mind would wander, then I would be badly mangled by whatever machinery I'm operating...

 

[iEvolution]

Its utterly ridiculous that anyone would put the blame on Apple for problems at these factories.

Its roughly like blaming Best Buy for conditions of Samsung factories because they carry Samsung products.

For those of you who don't understand, Foxconn is under contract by Apple to make their products. This means the company put in a bid for how much they can do the required tasks for. Its the contracting companies responsibility for the employees at the factory not Apple.

The only way Apple could be partially held responsible is if their contract is essentially what makes the company run and Apple is dropping the contract amount after an agreed upon amount, resulting in requirements from the employees to be extremely high because of a needed cut back in man power to the cut on contract price.

Some companies will severally underbid just to get a contract knowing that they'd put a lot of stress on their employees to get the job done. This is most likely what is going on with Foxconn, they are running on barebones trying to get a contract done that realistically requires more.

 

[Slurpy2k8]

Sorry - since when does the media have to be fair. They just have to be accurate. There's no law providing "equal time" for things like this. They just can't write anything libelous. And I'm guessing if what they reported was inaccurate or false - Apple would be suing the NYT. I can say this with certainty given Apple's litigious nature.

----------




Ask yourself why they are doing it. In response to what. Companies don't typically like to be transparent about anything. Unless there's a reason. Ask yourself what the reason is for their transparency.

Possibly the most idiotic, intellectually dishonest, circular logic I've ever seen.

1. WHAT IS APPLE HIDING?? WHY CANT THEY BE MORE TRANSPARENT?? WHAT ARE THEY DOING ABOUT THE SITUATION?? NOTHING!!

[Apple posts supplier responsibility literature, and very detailed and transparent audit reports, exactly what people have demanded they do]

2. HMM.. WHY IS APPLE BEING TRANSPARENT? WHAT IS THEIR MOTIVE? WHAT IS THE REASON FOR THEIR TRANSPARENCY?? THEY'RE UP TO SOMETHING!

Brilliant. Simply, brilliant. You don't even know what you want Apple to do. Damned if they do, damned if they don't, right? You have the gall to accuse them of being transparent and posting hard figures? What utter hypocrisy.

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

Please tell me what has Apple done besides sit and watch it's own country starve for jobs. Despicable. Please tell me what has Apple done besides lip service to improve working conditions in it's supplier chain? You think to seem they've done so much, yet there are still reports of such horrible working conditions. I just love how they market a Premium Product, all the while it's being made in Third World working conditions. What a joke. Makes me sick. Again, if Samsung can have faith in the American people and open a CPU manufacturing plant, why can't Apple. Oh yeah, I know why, GREED. Despicable.

Does Foxconn make many of are military parts also? Someone in china does and china is no ally!

----------

Time to get realistic. Apple is. Foxconn's other customers (you're probably posting from a device that had a part made by them) are as well.

When are *you* going to get realistic?

North American employers can no longer afford North American workers in manufacturing. North American economies have *allowed* manufacturing divisions to cross borders and head overseas. And you're going to blame Apple, IBM, Microsoft, and all the rest for taking advantage of this??

North American governments and Asian governments seem to have a deal here. Multinationals, as such, are simply playing by their terms.

Apple has done all they can to influence and elicit change with their suppliers, short of doing something really stupid and injurious to themselves and their suppliers. Foxconn and Apple have an agreement, which all parties agreed to. It's as simple as that. You want Apple to do even more?? They can't. Doing so would harm their relationship with their suppliers. And then NOBODY wins.

The next in the chain of command are governments. China regulates their own economics and manufacturing sector as they damn well see fit. It is not Apple's job get involved in that mess. Apple is not a government, nor should they start acting like one, nor do they have the right to exercise executive or legislative powers, nor will they break productive relationships that damage their now business and that of their suppliers.

Propose some REAL, WORKABLE solutions instead of getting lost in hazy idealism.

Really? You need to dig deeper.

 

[294307]

It's easy for the media to exaggerate about the conditions because there is no penalty for them lying. Most people reading these articles sadly want bad news because that's what people like to hear. News is always depressing. It's almost impossible for people to verify the working conditions themselves because of how far these factories are from the readers.

Well said. The media do indeed exaggerate and lie and I wouldn't be surprised if they have exaggerated about factory conditions before, because it sounds much better and will have more hype over it. It's an inherent issue with the media that is unfortunately not going to change until a large subset of people start realising what the media do and start focusing on making it obvioius the media need to change their attitude more towards responsible and balanced reporting. It's such a big issue because we rely on the media for vital information.

In regards to people's opinions that Apple is clearly not doing enough with their large pile of cash, well I think you need to remember we don't understand what Apple knows about its suppliers and whether it is not as easy as 1 - 2 - 3 to get suppliers to comply with violations to the guidelines Apple requires their suppliers comply with in order to do business with Apple. A lot of times people jump to conclusions regarding the issue(s) that are reported. Just remember we don't understand the full details, and so it is unfair to criticise Tim Cook/Apple until it becomes evident either way. But I think (and note this is my opinion) if the Chinese government did more to ensure companies comply to ethical standards regarding health and safety in factories, non-discrmination, child labour, not working an unhealthy amount of hours, and they strictly ensured compliance and enforcement of these "laws", I am sure things could definitely improve universally throughout China and the same applies to other poorer parts of the world with factories alike.

I'd like to just say a small bit of advice to some people - don't believe everything you read 100%. People often reply to news articles and it's easy to think the person read the article and absorbed it as it is.