Tim Cook Responds to Report on Working Conditions at Suppliers' Factories

[gnasher729]

Absolutely despicable. This isn't even the first time that Apple has come under fire for horrible working conditions. Bottom line: Nobody Cares. Not Apple or its blind followers. Apple only cares to push, push and push some more. And the blind followers are more than happy to accept the same garbage response that comes out of Apples greedy corporate mouth. I just love how Apple just has to say, "We Care" and it's good enough for it's legion of blind followers. Anything to justify their support for such a despicable company that employs more people outside of it's country of origin, while it's own country is suffering so bad economically. Especially Americans. You have the biggest company in the world, and it employs more people outside your country and continues to expand manufacturing outside America. Despicable. Even Samsung has more faith in the American people by manufacturing in Austin.

So what do you think about Apple's "Supplier Responsibility Report", straight on the www.apple.com website? Did you read it? Or would it interfere too much with your pre-made opinions?

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

It is curious that this all comes out right after Apple kills it and their stock price shoots through the roof. No doubt the anti-Apple folks don't like seeing the greatest company in the world doing so well, so they get a story out there that makes Apple look bad.

That's how it works. For a very long time Exxon sat atop the heap. What's your opinion of Exxon? In the tech world, for a long time Microsoft sat atop the heap. What's your opinion of Microsoft? The King is both the King for the good they do and looked at with more scrutiny than those who are not at the top. To some degree, it is a fundamental component of our system.

This has nothing to do with "let's bring Apple down" conspiracies. It's an opportunity for the new King to "do more" than they could when they were small. Some people seem to still see Apple as tiny and needing to be defended in anything and everything. Apple is at the top now. The tiny, fledgling days are long gone.

Since chirpie quoted Spiderman, I'll do the same: "With great power comes great responsibility". When you reach the very top, arguments like "but why don't you go after the other (smaller) guys too?", etc are much weaker. The hope is always that the biggest of them all uses their power to influence positive change in all things. That hope doesn't obligate this new King to do anything... that's why it's just hope.

 

[StrudelTurnover]

hope its true... really, we are just typical consumers, we dont know much. some people say conditions are awful, some say they are not, we dont really know much about it on our own and i can only say that conditions are definitely not very good, but i can't say are they terrible, or are they good.

True, you can't say it yourself from experience. But we don't live in a world where knowledge and understanding is only drawn from personal experience. Other consumers, academics, researchers, have indeed gone in order to see it for themselves and speak about their experience. To write reports for corporations and human rights NGOs and news outlets, and more. Here's just one opinion. I recommend the audio.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/454/transcript

I think this is probably my favourite quote from the whole piece.

When I leave the factory, as I can feel myself being rewritten from the inside out, the way I see everything is starting to change. I keep thinking, how often do we wish more things were handmade? Oh, we talk about that all the time, don't we? "I wish it was like the old days. I wish things had that human touch." But that's not true. There are more handmade things now than there have ever been in the history of the world.

Everything is handmade. I know. I have been there. I have seen the workers laying in parts thinner than human hair. One after another after another. Everything is handmade.

 

[*LTD*]

Absolutely despicable. This isn't even the first time that Apple has come under fire for horrible working conditions. Bottom line: Nobody Cares. Not Apple or its blind followers. Apple only cares to push, push and push some more. And the blind followers are more than happy to accept the same garbage response that comes out of Apples greedy corporate mouth. I just love how Apple just has to say, "We Care" and it's good enough for it's legion of blind followers. Anything to justify their support for such a despicable company that employs more people outside of it's country of origin, while it's own country is suffering so bad economically. Especially Americans. You have the biggest company in the world, and it employs more people outside your country and continues to expand manufacturing outside America. Despicable. Even Samsung has more faith in the American people by manufacturing in Austin.

Time to get realistic. Apple is. Foxconn's other customers (you're probably posting from a device that had a part made by them) are as well.

When are *you* going to get realistic?

North American employers can no longer afford North American workers in manufacturing. North American economies have *allowed* manufacturing divisions to cross borders and head overseas. And you're going to blame Apple, IBM, Microsoft, and all the rest for taking advantage of this??

North American governments and Asian governments seem to have a deal here. Multinationals, as such, are simply playing by their terms.

Apple has done all they can to influence and elicit change with their suppliers, short of doing something really stupid and injurious to themselves and their suppliers. Foxconn and Apple have an agreement, which all parties agreed to. It's as simple as that. You want Apple to do even more?? They can't. Doing so would harm their relationship with their suppliers. And then NOBODY wins.

The next in the chain of command are governments. China regulates their own economics and manufacturing sector as they damn well see fit. It is not Apple's job get involved in that mess. Apple is not a government, nor should they start acting like one, nor do they have the right to exercise executive or legislative powers, nor will they break productive relationships that damage their now business and that of their suppliers.

Propose some REAL, WORKABLE solutions instead of getting lost in hazy idealism.

 

[PsykX]

Apple does not employee them...the manufacturers employee those employees.

Yes, and if there is a possibility for this problem to happen to Apple’s manufacturer, they will up the prices to compensate for these losses, what do you think ?

And we're not talking about a factory of 22 people...we're talking about a factory of THOUSANDS or TENS OF THOUSANDS of UNSKILLED folks...people who snap a screen together or screw in a bolt or connect a wire. That is unskilled labor. If 1 person out of 1000 falls and breaks his arm then it's cya later alligator. 1 person or 10 people is not going to slow down those lines because there are thousands waiting to get that job.

It causes more of a hassle than you think. Just the fact that the injured person has been trained several days for several tasks and a newcomer has not, is a big problem. Training costs money.

 

[DanteMann]

Please make me a list of the laptops, smartphones, and tablets you use. Now. Or, advise me to which company I should switch to, that is doing more than Apple in regards to the conditions in China. As a 'blind follower of Apple', I'm patiently waiting for you to enlighten me as to the more 'moral' companies to support. Because I haven't heard a damn peep from anyone else, who use these very same factory, and much worse.

Again, I'm waiting for you to prove you're more than a mindless troll.Because according to your post history, where you spend an inordinate amount of time on an Apple board bashing Apple's products and championing Android (I wonder where those phones are made? ), that's exactly what you are. Then you make this fake outrage, pretending you're disappointed in the company that you've always hated with a passion? What a sad, pathetic life you must have to compel you to do this, day in and day out.

Please tell me what has Apple done besides sit and watch it's own country starve for jobs. Despicable. Please tell me what has Apple done besides lip service to improve working conditions in it's supplier chain? You think to seem they've done so much, yet there are still reports of such horrible working conditions. I just love how they market a Premium Product, all the while it's being made in Third World working conditions. What a joke. Makes me sick. Again, if Samsung can have faith in the American people and open a CPU manufacturing plant, why can't Apple. Oh yeah, I know why, GREED. Despicable.

 

[dgree03]

Time to get realistic. Apple is. Foxconn's other customers (you're probably posting from a device that had a part made by them) are as well.

When are *you* going to get realistic?

North American employers can no longer afford North American workers in manufacturing. North American economies have *allowed* manufacturing divisions to cross borders and head overseas. And you're going to blame Apple, IBM, Microsoft, and all the rest for taking advantage of this??

North American governments and Asian governments seem to have a deal here. Multinationals, as such, are simply playing by their terms.

Apple has done all they can to influence and elicit change with their suppliers, short of doing something really stupid and injurious to themselves and their suppliers. Foxconn and Apple have an agreement, which all parties agreed to. It's as simple as that. You want Apple to do even more?? They can't. Doing so would harm their relationship with their suppliers. And then NOBODY wins.

The next in the chain of command are governments. China regulates their own economics and manufacturing sector as they damn well see fit. It is not Apple's job get involved in that mess. Apple is not a government, nor should they start acting like one, nor do they have the right to exercise executive or legislative powers, nor will they break productive relationships that damage their now business and that of their suppliers.

Propose some REAL, WORKABLE solutions instead of getting lost in hazy idealism.

Because other do, apple does? So they are following?

Isn't this only about apple?

 

[Slurpy2k8]

Time to get realistic. Apple is. Foxconn's other customers (you're probably posting from a device that had a part made by them) are as well.

When are *you* going to get realistic?

North American employers can no longer afford North American workers in manufacturing. North American economies have *allowed* manufacturing divisions to cross borders and head overseas. And you're going to blame Apple, IBM, Microsoft, and all the rest for taking advantage of this??

North American governments and Asian governments seem to have a deal here. Multinationals, as such, are simply playing by their terms.

Apple has done all they can to influence and elicit change with their suppliers, short of doing something really stupid and injurious to themselves and their suppliers. Foxconn and Apple have an agreement, which all parties agreed to. It's as simple as that. You want Apple to do even more?? They can't. Doing so would harm their relationship with their suppliers. And then NOBODY wins.

The next in the chain of command are governments. China regulates their own economics and manufacturing sector as they damn well see fit. It is not Apple's job get involved in that mess. Apple is not a government, nor should they start acting like one, nor do they have the right to exercise executive or legislative powers, nor will they break productive relationships that damage their now business and that of their suppliers.

Propose some REAL, WORKABLE solutions instead of getting lost in hazy idealism.

What you've posted contains rationality, reason, and objectivity grounded in facts. That kind of stuff isn't allowed on the internet, especially on message-boards. This is where we make foaming at the mouth, unrealistic, knee-jerk demands that are unrealistic and untenable, damn the complex realities on the ground.

----------

Because other do, apple does? So they are following?

Isn't this only about apple?

He never said that. And Apple is doing more than anyone else. Why don't use read everything on this page http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/
and then come back with specific critiques about the information inside.

I love the APPLE ISN'T DOING ANYTHING outrage, but when provided a link to tangible things that they are doing, it becomes UMMM THEYRE PROBABLY LYING, AND CAN DO MORE without even taking a few minutes to read the damn thing. This is the level of 'concern' most people actually have.

 

[EvilEvil]

What you've posted contains rationality, reason, and objectivity grounded in facts. That kind of stuff isn't allowed on the internet, especially on message-boards. This is where we make foaming at the mouth, unrealistic, knee-jerk demands that are unrealistic and untenable, damn the complex realities on the ground.

----------



He never said that. And Apple is doing more than anyone else. Why don't use read everything on this page http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/
and then come back with specific critiques about the information inside.

I love the APPLE ISN'T DOING ANYTHING outrage, but when provided a link to tangible things that they are doing, it becomes UMMM THEYRE PROBABLY LYING, AND CAN DO MORE without even taking a few minutes to read the damn thing. This is the level of 'concern' most people actually have.

LOL did they just put that page up in response?

 

[Ryth]

Please tell me what has Apple done besides sit and watch it's own country starve for jobs. Despicable. Please tell me what has Apple done besides lip service to improve working conditions in it's supplier chain? You think to seem they've done so much, yet there are still reports of such horrible working conditions. I just love how they market a Premium Product, all the while it's being made in Third World working conditions. What a joke. Makes me sick. Again, if Samsung can have faith in the American people and open a CPU manufacturing plant, why can't Apple. Oh yeah, I know why, GREED. Despicable.

LOL...now your blaming Apple for the USA jobs problem...

Everything you own in some way shape or form is most likley made in a 3rd world country...that's how you are able to afford most of the things you own. Mexico, India, China, etc.

So please stop with the hypocrisy.

You know...Apple has done a metric sh-t ton in improving the working conditions for these people. From where they were 4 years ago to now, it's an absolute night and day comparison...and in a COMMUNIST country.

I want you start going to all the factories in America right now that have some sort of labor violation and start your bickering there...because god forbid...no labor violations should EVER occur in the USA.

Because there are PLENTY of places in America that have working conditions that are pretty rough and worse then the Foxconn lines..whether its shrimp lines or crab lines or recycling lines and so on.

The Asian labor force willing to work harder, for longer hours, in more onerous conditions and for considerably less pay than Americans. The American worker is not. That's the American workers problem. If another countries population wants to work hard to get the jobs, then more power to them. Just like Americans don't want to work the fields, the Mexican/Latino workers have no problem doing the labor.

American blue-collar workers for the most part are lazy. So stop blaming Apple for Americans uneducated and unmotivated work force. It been a problem for over the last decade. An entitled population.

You need to open your eyes and get out of your basement.

----------

LOL did they just put that page up in response?

Um no..it's been there for years and years ago when the first complaints came out. Shocking I know...real facts.

I love the APPLE ISN'T DOING ANYTHING outrage, but when provided a link to tangible things that they are doing, it becomes UMMM THEYRE PROBABLY LYING, AND CAN DO MORE without even taking a few minutes to read the damn thing. This is the level of 'concern' most people actually have.

You can't reason with these people. They live in a world without factual information. When you present it, they then try to turn it into something else.

What Apple has done is way more then anyone else ever has and they are changing the work environment in a communist country from one of horrible conditions to one with humane conditions. Plus they sit there and don't factor in how shelter, meals, medical care and other things that Foxconn provides factors into their daily pay along with cost of living over there. The comparison of their salary is in line with a fast food worker here. But our worker isn't getting all those other things for free included in their job.

Would love to just grab them and throw them in a plane and take them to some places in the USA to show them some harsh working conditions.

 

[Nunyabinez]

North American employers can no longer afford North American workers in manufacturing. North American economies have *allowed* manufacturing divisions to cross borders and head overseas. And you're going to blame Apple, IBM, Microsoft, and all the rest for taking advantage of this??

Not only this, but Americans don't want those jobs. Do you think that we couldn't employ most of the Americans that are out of work in janitorial or food service or other unskilled jobs? Even if those jobs were here, people wouldn't want to do them. They would rather collect unemployment than work a job below their desired skill set. We would have to pay a premium to get them to do some boring job. Everyone wants manufacturing jobs to come back to the US, but no one wants to stand in a line an solder the same connection 5000 times a day.

 

[bbeagle]

Single dumbest post I've ever seen.

Keep drinking the Fandroid Kool-aid.

 

[madmaxmedia]

Whether Apple has an obligation (legal or moral) or not can be debated endlessly.

But Apple is in a position to be able to drive forward change, due to their high exposure and high profitability (this doesn't mean other electronics companies also don't have this opportunity, Samsung made a bucketload of money last quarter too.)

As wonderful as it is to be able to have a laser-like focus on designing and selling great products, ultimately all of our actions have many different ramifications. Especially when it's a huge company like Apple.

Horsepucky. I know that Apple can do no wrong as far as you are concerned, but if you actually believe that Apple doesn't have the power to influence their suppliers, you're blindness is of even greater proportion than I realized.

Is there no limit on your willingness (need?) to defend Apple's EVERY action.

OK, I'm a schmuck. Why do I let myself get get sucked in every time. Haven't I learned yet?

Uh oh, I'm talking to myself again. This guy is making me crazier than I was before.

 

[Ted13]

Just out of curiosity, how bad is the job market in China? Is this people's only option for employment? Considering China makes... well everything, I assume there are more friendly factories they could find employment at? I'm not being sarcastic or saying this isn't a bad situation, I'm just wondering if the workers actually have options given that the conditions are as terrible as were being lead to believe.

Foxconn, where Chinese factory work is concerned, is pretty much as good as it gets (both conditions and salary). And just about any factory work is seen as preferable to being a farmer in rural China.

 

[DanteMann]

[/COLOR]

He never said that. And Apple is doing more than anyone else. Why don't use read everything on this page http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/
and then come back with specific critiques about the information inside.

Yeah, let's just go straight to the accused's website and believe their side of the story. Let's ignore the victims who continually suffer and die from horrible working conditions. While your at it, let's read the statement of anyone accused of wrong doing and let them off the hook. Like I said, blind follower.

 

[samcraig]

He never said that. And Apple is doing more than anyone else. Why don't use read everything on this page http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/
and then come back with specific critiques about the information inside.

I love the APPLE ISN'T DOING ANYTHING outrage, but when provided a link to tangible things that they are doing, it becomes UMMM THEYRE PROBABLY LYING, AND CAN DO MORE without even taking a few minutes to read the damn thing. This is the level of 'concern' most people actually have.

PR spin is PR spin. Do you think Apple would post damning information on their own website. Well - in a way they do. Because they admit that they only have 74 percent compliancy. They also list out their criteria. If you read the actual reports you would realize that that it's almost all marketing and PR. They have severed ties with very few affiliates. Now if they set criteria - and that criteria is not being met and Apple says they will cut off ties and don't - what does that say about Apple? I am NOT saying they don't do anything. I am not saying they don't care. I am, as a consumer, questioning if they are doing everything they can based on their own criteria. In my opinion, they are not.

Yeah, let's just go straight to the accused's website and believe their side of the story. Let's ignore the victims who continually suffer and die from horrible working conditions. While your at it, let's read the statement of anyone accused of wrong doing and let them off the hook. Like I said, blind follower.

Exactly.

 

[fertilized-egg]

PR spin is PR spin. Do you think Apple would post damning information on their own website.
...
I am, as a consumer, questioning if they are doing everything they can based on their own criteria. In my opinion, they are not.
(blind follower)
Exactly.

Slurpy2k8 didn't say Apple is perfect or even satisfactory in this regard. But that they are doing far more than other Foxconn-using corps. There was a mass suicide threat from workers who were making Microsoft xbox. As far as I can tell, Microsoft has done nothing to remedy the issue. How come they get a free pass while Apple, after doing far more than Microsoft, get all the blame? Sounds more like a blind hatred.

 

[Ryth]

But Apple is in a position to be able to drive forward change, due to their high exposure and high profitability (this doesn't mean other electronics companies also don't have this opportunity, Samsung made a bucketload of money last quarter too.)

Why don't you research some facts and see where China and their worker environments WERE and where they are NOW thanks to Apple and their ability to influence change...then come back and talk about forward change...especially in a COMMUNIST country.

There was a mass suicide threat from workers who were making Microsoft xbox. As far as I can tell, Microsoft has done nothing to remedy the issue. How come they get a free pass while Apple, after doing far more than Microsoft, get all the blame? Sounds more like a blind hatred.

Uneducated left leaning people usually just spout hatred towards things they don't understand..especially towards successful capitalistic companies.

----

Holy crap...we should jump all over Southwest Airlines..one of their employees died this morning in an accident. Everyone BOYCOTT SW airlines for their inhumane treatment of a worker...even though it was an accident like those that occurred at Foxconn.

http://overheadbin.msnbc.msn.com/_n...e-killed-following-accident-at-dulles-airport

 

[fertilized-egg]

.especially towards successful capitalistic companies.

That's the part I don't understand. Aren't Microsoft, Amazon, IBM, Samsung, Lenovo, Asus, etc, etc, successful capitalistic companies too? They all contract Foxconn for production but I rarely, if ever, see them get blamed. Even when it's known their production line is involved. It's always Apple even though Apple does, as far as I can tell, more than any of those companies to improve the labour condition.

 

[Ryth]

That's the part I don't understand. Aren't Microsoft, Amazon, IBM, Samsung, Lenovo, Asus, etc, etc, successful capitalistic companies too? They all contract Foxconn for production but I rarely, if ever, see them get blamed. Even when it's known their production line is involved. It's always Apple.

Well that's why we call them Hypocrites and H8ters.

 

[madmaxmedia]

Hey guys,

I've been mulling over an idea the last few days regarding this issue. Basically, every few months there is a article somewhere about factory conditions in China, there's a bunch of brouhaha, and then we all go back to our lives, Apple (and other companies) sell millions of phones and tablets, life continues.

I was thinking of setting of a 'online tip jar' for people to help. The idea is this- buy a phone/tablet/game console/etc., and drop a small tip in the jar that will go towards investigating/advocating/fighting for worker rights and more humane working conditions. (you can obviously donate anytime, but I liked the idea of the tip jar.) A dime, a dollar, ten dollars- whatever you want.

Anyway, the entire post is in the Community forum, please take a look and post any feedback (good, bad, or otherwise-)

https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=14228906

Thanks

 

[samcraig]

Slurpy2k8 didn't say Apple is perfect or even satisfactory in this regard. But that they are doing far more than other Foxconn-using corps. There was a mass suicide threat from workers who were making Microsoft xbox. As far as I can tell, Microsoft has done nothing to remedy the issue. How come they get a free pass while Apple, after doing far more than Microsoft, get all the blame? Sounds more like a blind hatred.

No - sounds more like when you're the "top dog" you get the most attention.

And you, yourself, admit that you aren't sure whether Microsoft has done anything. So we should condemn them because you don't know whether or not they responded. OK.

That's the part I don't understand. Aren't Microsoft, Amazon, IBM, Samsung, Lenovo, Asus, etc, etc, successful capitalistic companies too? They all contract Foxconn for production but I rarely, if ever, see them get blamed. Even when it's known their production line is involved. It's always Apple even though Apple does, as far as I can tell, more than any of those companies to improve the labour condition.

Right - since everyone is doing it - it's ok. I agree that all companies should be held liable. I also think that if Apple is freely and actively promoting their work condition requirements - that maybe - just maybe - they should be held accountable. And this website is about Apple - not other manufacturers. So maybe that's why people are commenting about... you know.. Apple.

Well that's why we call them Hypocrites and H8ters.

H8ters? I know - tough word to spell out. It's easy to take you and your opinions seriously when you resort to not only name calling, but using "slang" to do so. Well done!

 

[Ryth]

H8ters? I know - tough word to spell out. It's easy to take you and your opinions seriously when you resort to not only name calling, but using "slang" to do so. Well done!

My opinions are based on facts. Go take a look and come back with some of your own. I noticed in the previous thread about this that when I posted facts against your rants, you stopped replying. Facts and proof hurt.

Apple has done more then any company in regards to workers in China and other countries. And they have done a ton...changes that have taken decades in other countries they have done in a matter of years...within a communist regime.

 

[fertilized-egg]

And you, yourself, admit that you aren't sure whether Microsoft has done anything. So we should condemn them because you don't know whether or not they responded. OK.

I found a feeble note from their PR dept and that was about it. At least we know Apple have taken more initiative to be responsible for the contractors. I searched Microsoft and there was no such thing.

Right - since everyone is doing it - it's ok. I agree that all companies should be held liable. I also think that if Apple is freely and actively promoting their work condition requirements - that maybe - just maybe - they should be held accountable. And this website is about Apple - not other manufacturers. So maybe that's why people are commenting about... you know.. Apple.

Except that pretty much nowhere on the web people blame Microsoft for any Foxconn-related problems even though their production line was associated with a specific incident and they haven't shown any sort of initiative that Apple has shown. Microsoft is in the more wrong than Apple and nobody talks about it, why?

 

[madmaxmedia]

Why don't you research some facts and see where China and their worker environments WERE and where they are NOW thanks to Apple and their ability to influence change...then come back and talk about forward change...especially in a COMMUNIST country.

Why don't you please research my post and see where I didn't claim that Apple hasn't done anything.

I know about their policies and their supplier reports that are available on their web site. I refrain from posting too many opinions about exactly what they've done/ how much they've done/ whether they should do more/a lot more/etc. because I'm not in the position to claim complete knowledge.

I have done some research.

Have you read both recent NY Times articles? There was also a recent This American Life podcast with more info on Apple's policies and reporting:

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/454/mr-daisey-and-the-apple-factory

In their own supplier reports, Apple says they find many violations (don't remember the %, but I think it's around half of their suppliers [EDIT- 74%].) It is arguable how much pressure they exert to have these violations corrected.

My point was never to make Apple the bad guy here. There are a lot of economic reasons why its hard to just drop suppliers because a factory overworked their workers or had some underage employees. Especially if its a factory like FoxConn, and even with their manufacturing power cannot keep up with end-user demand. It's hard.

All of this to me is less about pointing fingers, and more about learning more about the world we live in. 20 years ago our lives were largely disconnected from those in other countries, nowadays we are more connected than ever.
----------

Why don't you research some facts and see where China and their worker environments WERE and where they are NOW thanks to Apple and their ability to influence change...then come back and talk about forward change...especially in a COMMUNIST country.

Uneducated left leaning people usually just spout hatred towards things they don't understand..especially towards successful capitalistic companies.

Then why take the bait and respond in a similar manner- why the COMMUNIST COMMUNIST COMMUNIST?