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Now, if Apple were taking it's profits from it's services and subsidising it's MacBooks and selling them for $500 each, then yeah, that is against anti-trust laws because their competitors have no way of competing.
Are you sure this violates anti-trust laws? I have to admit I don't know for sure.

The console business is well-known to be selling consoles at a lost with subsidies from game titles sales.

I'm also told that many retail stores sells some stuffs at a lost to attract customers in the hope that customers will buy more stuffs in the store.

To me, this is just a business model.

Every company can have their own innovative way of doing business. And it's always about the survival of the fittest.
 
Are you sure this violates anti-trust laws? I have to admit I don't know for sure.

The console business is well-known to be selling consoles at a lost with subsidies from game titles sales.

I'm also told that many retail stores sells some stuffs at a lost to attract customers in the hope that customers will buy more stuffs in the store.

To me, this is just a business model.

Every company can have their own innovative way of doing business. And it's always about the survival of the fittest.

The individual circumstances dictate the outcome. It was declared illegal in United States v. AT&T

When you have multiple manufacturers ALL using the same business model, then there is no abuse of power. Now if Sony took it's profits from it's TV business and sold the Playstation for $10 (vastly undercutting it's competitors), then there'd be an antitrust case.

You need monopoly power and an abuse of that power which can be either a restraint of trade for your competitors or an attempt at maintaining or increasing your monopoly through nefarious means.

Again, it is entirely legal to have a monopoly on your own products that's why you need to define the appropriate market. iOS app distribution is too narrow as iOS and iOS app distribution is Apple's product and it's legal to have a monopoly here. The relevant market is likely to be Mobile App Distribution but there's a number of tests from people much more intelligent than me which sets this.
 
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it is not voluntary as Apple has a monopoly (actually a duopoly by Google and Apple) on smartphones.

You got to be on Android and iOS as a developer for smartphones.
Saying it’s not voluntary doesn’t make it so. Bring an apple dev is opt-in. No one is holding a gun to you making you agree to the t&c.
 
Now if Sony took it's profits from it's TV business and sold the Playstation for $10 (vastly undercutting it's competitors), then there'd be an antitrust case.
But in this case, this would be different in that Sony doesn't have monopoly power in the TV market. In the AT&T case, it has monopoly over the power market (from the link you provided).

In the Sony case, it doesn't stop Samsung from also doing the same thing.

Anyway, this discussion is probably moot.
 
I don't get his logic, how would third party payments lead to lower user volume?
Well since most ios/ipasos/tvos users allready has a card on file with appke all rhay need to do is confirm the transaction, with a third party they'd have to enter the card info in probably an address as well, and since people don't know their card number ny heart they would need to get it ( wich often will involve geting up from wherever they'r sitting) which fir a 99c app/inn app purchase might be to much effort, hence no sale, see where I'm going here. My argument ofc falls flat on it's face if the majorety of app store and in app transactions are not impulse related
 
If Apple are so bothered about the user experience, then it'd be the best user experience if they offered their service to developers at cost, rather than making a profit from it. That'd soon put an end to all this debate, and would give them a competitive advantage to Google.
Yea i bet apples shareholders would love a move reducing apples revenue, and hence their future roi
 
I’m confused by this as well. Weird reach.

When’s the last time you opened Cydia?
Ok yhe question was not for me, but I'll chip in anyway. And the answer is never, I do bave several 3 party apps baught and downloaded from yhe devs website tho,. This is still fully possible on osx no cydia needed
 
What I'm saying is Apple controls 100% of app distribution. The way Apple's businesses are vertically integrated means they control everything
Oh, really Apple controls app distribution even across Android devices? That was Standard Oil. Which is very different from Apple where they only actually control 20% of the total market of mobile phones.

Obviously, you're saying Apple "100% controls" apps and games in their App Store. But, so does Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, Steam, even EPIC -- they 100% control apps and games on their own hardware or software stores. If you're a game developer, you can't get your Xbox, Playstation, or Nintendo game to appear on a Target, Walmart, Best Buy, or GameStop physical store shelf without signing agreements with them and paying 30%. Those are monopolies. 100% control. No side loading. No 3rd party distribution. No direct sales to customers -- even though Xbox and Playstation have web browsers and are just literal PCs under the hood.

Yet, guess what. The courts have upheld their 100% control of games on their hardware for the past 30-35 years.

And just like how AT&T was broken up due to their abuse of their vertically integrated market position, Apple may one day face the same consequence.
Uh... you realize it was the US Department of Justice in 1913 that literally gave AT&T a government protected monopoly, right? They were given such and given protection from competition because the government wanted a single reliable phone service built nationwide. Seven decades later, after the nationwide public phone network was built-out, in the 1980's that monopoly was rescinded as they no longer found it necessary for multiple reasons.

But, you do know, that it's not only legally created monopolies that OK, right? Without the will of local, state, or federal legislature or department -- You can yourself achieve, or create a monopoly, even maintain said monopoly, and be legal.

Specifically, I'd like to direct your attention to the FTC's own Guide to Antitrust wherein they explicitly state: "it is not illegal for a company to have a monopoly, to charge "high prices," or to try to achieve a monopoly position by what might be viewed by some as particularly aggressive methods."

What matters is whether your maintenance of said monopoly is through: "unreasonable methods."

Which is where Epic really doesn't have a very good case. If everyone else (Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, Steam, etc) was offering 12% commission where Apple was charging 30%, it would be a different case. If Apple, decided to increase commission to 35%, 40%, or 50%, again, this would be a different case. If Apple, sought to preclude you from writing Android apps as contractual requirement for the approval of your Apps - again, a different and better case.

But, just charging "high prices" or being aggressive and not allowing side-loading of games and apps, Like it or not, alone it's not illegal.
 
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Curious why Android isn't the preferred or more profitable market for developers, seeing as Google Play allows for in-App market places, allows for separate 3rd party app markets themselves, along with unrestricted side loading - so that developers can just sell direct to android customers. Especially considering that 4 out of 5 of mobile phones are running some android OS variant.

Even with less than 15 percent market share, iOS has led the way in revenue generation for app developers. This is partly due to iPhone being more popular in regions with high income, such as Japan and the United States, which also tend to spend more on apps.

In comparison, Google Play’s largest markets are India, South-east Asia and South America, which typically generate less revenue per user. Apple also operates in China, while the Google Play store is banned. Several third-party Android app stores are available in China, and are estimated to generate over $8 billion in yearly revenue.


 
Even with less than 15 percent market share, iOS has led the way in revenue generation for app developers. This is partly due to iPhone being more popular in regions with high income, such as Japan and the United States, which also tend to spend more on apps.
Well, yea. That much is very known :) It's almost like Apple's tight control of their hardware and their app store instead *is* what makes it far more valuable to consumers and developers alike. And that prohibiting that control would instead be detrimental.
 
If Apple are so bothered about the user experience, then it'd be the best user experience if they offered their service to developers at cost, rather than making a profit from it. That'd soon put an end to all this debate, and would give them a competitive advantage to Google.
If they offered it at cost, Epic and their friends would still complain.
 
I'll leave this here.


The story about Mercedes is not a new one .. 17 million made on a pretty niche piece of software with the added trickle down effect that potentially cost legitimate dealers a whole lot more over the course of it being out in the wild.

I've done work in companies that should have been paying thousands in licensing fee's each on professional software packages (and sure, eventually they went legit). But the fact remains that for the longest time they did not, and as a result software companies lost alot of monies that should have been paid to them.
As I said before, these is professional piracy corporate software licenses, mainly in India and China, and its buyers wouldn’t have paid for it anyway, except a few ones. These missing millions are all based on pure assumptions like “what could they have gotten, if these licenses were officially sold. PS: Buzzword “Darknet” disqualified the whole article, already.
If their software would be uncrackable, it simply wouldn’t be used. They know that, but it’s free marketing, just like Microsoft keeps allowing 3€ Windows Keys of eBay to successfully activate against their license servers. Better a pirated Windows than no Windows, that’s their motto. They can go SaaS and all become fine.
 
A couple of questions:

1) Do you have an iPhone?
2) WHY did you buy it, what were the exact reasons?


I'd be really interested to see as you clearly have great disdain for the services that Apple provides (as evidenced across multiple posts and threads). There is vastly cheaper options available in the Android/ Linux space, with better on-paper hardware specs and >100 different apps stores to froth over.

I just don't get how supposedly intelligent people would purchase a product as expensive as an iPhone without doing a heap of research first. AND, in the weeks after purchasing, if they found so many things distasteful, why didn't they return it? Apple offer an unconditional 14 day return program worldwide on all hardware.

If you don't have an iPhone, then why even comment other than being a troll? Without skin in the game, you're just another opinion commenting from the sidelines.
As a dev i have a few phones incl. iPhones, but I’m not crazy enough to bet on one horse. Anyway you surely know that not every iPhone is sold through the Apple Online Store or Apple Local Stores, and most of them are tied to 2y contracts. Most people don’t put the whole money on the table, and pay it off through 2 years.
 
Every app has to use Apple's payment system for items bought on the device ending up on the device. Apps are not allowed to use Apple's payment system for item bought on the device and ending up elsewhere. That has been the same for the last 14 years; it seems you just discovered it.

I didn't discover it. However it points out the dishonesty behind Tim's claim.

How can he (credibly) say that allowing non-apple payment systems would be terrible, and also allow non-apple payment systems for a whole class of the most popular apps?
 
The best option is to let people choose. Most people would just download from the App Store and pay thru the app store for the small minority that want to install other app stores via side loading let them. When they come in and say they have An issue with their device because of a malicious software it’s their problem just like it would be on macOS problem solved everyone happy
 
So now it’s racist to say you never know what you’re gonna get shopping at flea markets. Hahahaha. Jesus. Ironically, you characterized him comparing to a flea market as a lower standard. :)

Well said.
 
We are talking about Tim Cook the billionaire. He wouldn’t know the difference between a flea market and a buffet table.

Rich people are supposed to not know the world but yet somehow succeed in it rather successfully.
 
So because some people don't like flea markets, let's forbid them. Because people can't chose for themselves.

Wait he called for a ban in the article? I was under the impression he doesn’t want one in his shop, but that’s a different claim.
 
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