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I think you alone have made a cohesive argument, although I don't agree with your point of view. The overwhelming majority of people just say "because security" and leave it at that.
What you said is no one has been able to tell you how. You not agreeing is perfectly acceptable, but not everyone is simply parroting Apple, here.

But that's exactly what it is.
I understand your point of view, and disagree with it, and it has nothing to do with some blind devotion to Apple.

So it's only a valid point when you say it?
Read back through my posts: I've never said it, and don't, in general, find it productive.
 
Remember back when die-hard iPhone users would say that the average user shouldn't need to multitask or have widgets? I put the same stock in those arguments then as I do the cries of "it's bad for security but i can't tell how" today.
I don’t remember that time no, and multiple people - myself included, have mentioned plenty of reasons ‘how’ in this thread.
 
Perhaps what we're seeing in this thread is that there are users who desire opposing things (i.e., some want iOS to be more like Android, some want iOS to maintain its' status quo security settings). Perhaps Apple has a lot more data on the subject than any of us, and is doubling down hard on security due to their understanding of their users' desires? Perhaps.
lmao, Apple has data on how much revenue they would be losing if they allow side loading. That is the ONLY thing they care about.
 
lmao, Apple has data on how much revenue they would be losing if they allow side loading. That is the ONLY thing they care about.
You realize we're saying the same thing, right?

The bottom line for Apple matters, and they have the data to show that doubling down their PR blitz on security is the most profitable path. Whether you agree with their statements is irrelevant.
 
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This guy is not your average user, but he expects that anyone using a smart phone should be on the same level as he is. He knows how to protect himself (e.g., his comments about how it's "obvious" that an install link to an app was malware, without any response to the fact that it wasn't a made up situation, and many people were actually affected by the scam). For these users, he says there are two options: educating those who are willing to learn, or giving them a locked down experience. He even said he only gives dumb-phones with no apps whatsoever to those in his own life who don't want to learn how to side load safely.

So, to be clear, this guy thinks there should only be two options: Android, and dumb-phones. There's no room in his mind for iOS as it is, i.e., an app-centric phone with user security baked in, as by his own admission the presence of side-loading is in itself enough to encourage his less tech-savvy family/friends to go with locked down dumb phones.
 
I don't see the validity of this statement, I think it's a cop-out trying to hide the real reason.
Abusing people's desire for security as a false pretend to maximize Apple's profit!

Users who are not sideloading apps on iOS would be just as safe as they are now, how is their safety affected when other users sideload? Exploits of iOS are constantly found anyways, jailbreaks keep happening. Whoever wants to attack non-jailbreakers/sideloaders won't gain much here, at least not in comparison to the gains of the iOS users who want to sideload! If the OS is truly sandboxed well, where is the harm?
These devices (iPhones) are not a connected server cluster, they're individual devices!!!

Quick question: Why would it be unsafe on phones when it's normal for computers?
Take a guess :p iOS basically is a variant of MacOS, they claimed so at least (LOL). Does that mean that they do sub-par security for iOS, maybe get some devs from the MacOS team over to help? LMAO
I can imagine the entire Apple board of directory having dreamt of forbidding software installs on Mac computers just as much as they did on iOS for years now.
In the end, it's just common law. Everybody is used on it on iOS, so most people believe this makes sense and must remain like it is.... think again!

with Phil Schiller's words: "COURAGE!!!"..... c'mon Apple + Apple-Users, how about some courage!

I predict, Apple will lose this argument in court and will have to change their stance on this within the next few years.

____
edit
interesting to see, majority opts for the "courage" option of allowing what has been normal on any computer ever since they were invented.... so Apple, do the same for these pocket computers please!
ChnGNlo.png
What do you want to sideload anyway? Your own apps? Pirate apps?
 
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Hogwash.

Apple Security is far from perfect. There are numerous security holes that make the iPhone vulnerable to malware. Jeez. Total crap

Just typical Apple wanting all the control...using safety as the line of BS-- pure fear mongering

I have jailbroken my iPhone for 10yrs. Often security holes are patched faster by the jailbreak community than by Apple. The only issue with safety is created by the end user.

Go to a nefarious site, pirate apps etc and you will be at significant risk.

I love Apple for the ecosystem and how devices work fairly seamlessly together but I am getting more fed up with Apple's controlling ways.

Jailbreaking will hopefully always be an option with time. I can do so much more with my iPhone jailbroken. I love the ability to theme and customize my device the way I want.

Please do not try to tell me its not safe or there are too many risks...if you have ever jailbroken your phone you know this is not true. A jailed phone carries as much risk as my jailbroken phone
 
Can you imagine having a product, that your company sells, and a whole bunch of people are telling you what you allowed and not allowed to put on it?
Am I allowed to tell LG to use android instead Web OS? Can I ask Samsung to not allow sideloading? Can I ask Toyota to install CarPlay access? WTF is going on here
When a company makes a product they agree to be told what to do by a bunch of people called regulators. The whole point of regulation is to say exactly what you can and can't do, and those regulations may change as market and social conditions change.

Anybody in business understands that they live within the regulations or die as a criminal enterprise, it's a fact of business life. It's not like Apple are trying to meet regulators halfway, they're digging their heels in and spouting ******** that amounts to "if any iPhone can sideload anything everyone's iPhones become less secure”, which simply isn't true.

Jailbreaking, which has spawned a whole subculture committed to finding root level exploits, is much more harmful to users security than a switch to allow sideloading of software. Jailbreaking also clearly demonstrates that allowing some users to have full control of their devices has not caused a tsunami of security or privacy breaches on non jailbroken devices.

Indeed, if what Tim Cook was implying were true, then Apple is so hopelessly inept at security that if even a single device were to run unauthorized software it would compromise everybody, and nobody should ever use an Apple device because of their incredibly fragile security and privacy practices.
 
So, to be clear, this guy thinks there should only be two options: Android, and dumb-phones.
iOS is already dumbed down. Education is a great option, when I want to drive a car, I need a license. ?‍♂️ People should be educated using modern technology from a young age. They should teach this in school. No sympathy for idiots using things they don't understand.
What do you want to sideload anyway? Your own apps? Pirate apps?
Meanwhile at 1 Infinite Loop, Cupertino :
hero-image.fill.size_1200x675.v1611608164.jpg

?
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/13/technology/apple-software-update-spyware-nso-group.html ?‍♂️
 
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He is not wrong.

Or just make your own OS like Linus made Linux and then other customised that to their liking in Debian and Arch forms. There is also OpenBSD.

Brave search and duckduckgo didn't like google so they made their own solution
 
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iOS is already dumbed down. Education is a great option, when I want to drive a car, I need a license. ?‍♂️ People should be educated using modern technology from a young age. They should teach this in school. No sympathy for idiots using things they don't understand.
Another ridiculous comment from someone purely thinking of themselves.
They didnt even have computers when my parents were at school. Are they not allowed Phones?
 
The difference here is that a vulnerability can be patched and the problem goes away.

Can't say the same for the other problem. Don't you think?
Since when can't you patch for viruses and malware? You can, but you have to be aware of how things work, then you can prevent it. The same can be said for security, find it first, then close it. Have a look at Apples long list of security holes in iOS, most are reported and open for months before Apple is doing something about it.

Or just make your own OS like Linus made Linux and then other customised that to their liking in Debian and Arch forms.
The OS is not the problem. I've made a few different OS' for different purposes, embedded, desktop and servers. But in those cases always supplied the required dedicated software. You can come up with the best OS in the world, as long as it doesn't run all the software, it won't be a success.
 
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Since when can't you patch for viruses and malware? You can, but you have to be aware of how things work, then you can prevent it. The same can be said for security, find it first, then close it. Have a look at Apples long list of security holes in iOS, most are reported and open for months before Apple is doing something about it.
Seems like you are moving the goal posts.
 
Another ridiculous comment from someone purely thinking of themselves.
They didnt even have computers when my parents were at school. Are they not allowed Phones?
Sure they are allowed, but should educate themselves before using them. Do you get in a car and start driving if you've never been in one before? Do you use a gun before understanding the basic principle of operation and risks? Do you fire up a chainsaw and swing it around before thinking about it?

Many people are idiots plain and simple, they're doing things without thinking about it. That is a first world problem. Why do you think we need coffee cups with warnings? Why do we need to tell people explicitly not to put wet pets in microwaves to dry them?

Going back to phones and a long time back... did you ever just make international calls to other continents before thinking about it? If yes, did you complain about your high bill? Think first, act later.

Sideloading is disabled per default, as long as your parents can read, they understand that huge popup that says "Danger, don't do this unless you know exactly what you're doing" and won't activate it. Problem solved.

Seems like you are moving the goal posts.
Not moving anything, maybe I misunderstood you. So could you explain in detail what exactly you mean, so someone with a background in software engineering and maybe security can understand?

Or are you saying someone is deliberately installing spyware on their phones and then complains about it? You are aware that we have seen iOS apps infected with malware which were sold in the official App Store, right? Apples "It's the official store and all apps are checked by machines and humans, so it's safe" is another BS claim.

Don't get me wrong, I'm buying my Apps in the App Store. Would I side load? Probably not, who knows. I've worked with Apple and released Apps in the past via App Store. I hate stock Android with a passion. Apple be Apple, but people have to stop to come up with stupid excuses for things that are not really issues.

A few days ago we heard that Apple breaks FaceID when replacing displays on iPhones. According to many people on this forum, this was for security reason, to keep iOS and iPhones secure. No explanation how it would affect security, especially when reballing a chip allows to use it again (and more). The frontrunners crying for security were the ones who have never done hardware and software engineering in their life. Then Apple paddled back after the internet went crazy followed by silence by the Macrumors security experts.
 
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Very good question. And this has been continually asked through this entire thread, and no one has tried to explain that. They merely parrot what apple says.

Theres a certain number of people in this world who scare really easily, and never flinch or question when freedom is taken away in the name of 'security'.
I have explained why many times but people just ignore it. If my grandma gets a side loaded app and exposes my contact details which leads to me getting more scam and spam. Devices become zombie systems participating in spam generation and DDoS attacks.
 
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Its all about control and preventing a nearly insignificant free software platform, and possibly breathing new life into old hardware through repurposing and thus reducing sales. Again the earth looses to Apple need to endlessly grow for the sake of growing. They have more money than god, so this is now about ego.
 
Again, you're arguing that it would be better if Apple allowed users to not use 2fa? That's a choice Apple is making for everyone currently.
I'm arguing that Apple shouldn't be deciding for people how they use their device, and yes... I think 2FA should be optional for those who choose to forego it.

Let the users make an informed decision, don't force yours onto them.
 
Malware is malware. iOS devices have succumbed to a great deal of it over the years. They're not magical. But Apple users tend to have a super distorted view of what Android is actually like, so it's not surprise to see someone else pushing that same, tired silliness.

Hundreds of millions of people use Android every day without issue and have done so for many years.
That view of Android is likely based on the early versions that allowed apps full control over the phone with install-time permissions granted before the app was ever even opened.

At that same time, Apple had the walled garden exactly as they do now.

However, since then, Android has become something completely different and now actually enforces security even if it still does allow much more access than the highest level any iOS App could possibly even request.
 
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I believe a standing ovation is in order.


If the OS freely supports side loading, then these types of bugs would be a lot worse.
And exposing those bugs would in fact make iOS more secure because Apple would know about them and fix the flaws.

Saying something is secure because there's no easy way to take advantage of flaws doesn't mean they still don't exist, or that they shouldn't be fixed.

Security by obscurity isn't security.
 
iOS is already dumbed down. Education is a great option, when I want to drive a car, I need a license. ?‍♂️ People should be educated using modern technology from a young age. They should teach this in school. No sympathy for idiots using things they don't understand.
Look, I don't disagree that education isn't a great option. It's the best option, to be sure. BUT --- not everyone is willing to learn, and those people want to have non-dumb phones, too! As to iOS being "dumbed down" -- sure, that may be the case when we consider something like side loading, or perhaps the various theming features Android gives you, but its purpose is not general purpose computation like a traditional computer is: first and foremost, it's a phone, second, a lifestyle device.

The fact that Android takes a different approach with their operating system is perfectly fine, and those who want that experience should consider it --- ecosystem lock-in isn't actually as bad as some here would like to believe. The issue is that not everyone wants that experience, and from Apple's PR on this, it seems like more desire the more secure experience of leaving the possibility of running unsigned code out of the question entirely.

Finally, it's certainly unfair to call people idiots just because they were tricked into something --- not everyone is a security guru, and spearphishing attacks are pretty sophisticated these days. You or I may be able to do all the right things in various situations, but even with education, this is not universal. Perhaps anecdotal (I presume not): I am a CS graduate student at a top engineering college in California; we have assigned quarterly training on proper cybersecurity practices, which are really basic ideas that you or I would scoff at how obvious these things are, but the fact that they are assigning these training must at least be in part because people, even at the highest level of educational systems, still seem to not get it. My parents, although technically illiterate, are not stupid. Neither are (the majority) of the people whom I continuously instruct to do things like "use a proper password manager" or "don't install apps from untrusted sources." People do what they want because they think they are safe or have taken proper precautions, but they don't (or refuse to?) appreciate the sophistication of the "bad guys."
 
And exposing those bugs would in fact make iOS more secure because Apple would know about them and fix the flaws.

Saying something is secure because there's no easy way to take advantage of flaws doesn't mean they still don't exist, or that they shouldn't be fixed.

Security by obscurity isn't security.
You're misunderstanding me. I'm not proposing security by obscurity, which anyone with any technical literacy knows is terrible.

I'm saying these bugs that exist are not as bad because iOS is currently more secure. What you're suggesting is more like removing a foundational layer of security beneath some potentially unexposed flaws. What I'm saying is the flaws are on the outer layer, so we don't need to remove the underlying structure to find them, and in fact removing the underlying structure would make the existing external flaws much worse.

If your wall has some chipped paint, it doesn't make sense to remove the wooden planks that the paint is on to fix the paint problem.
 
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