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jjjoseph

macrumors 6502a
Sep 16, 2013
503
643
It's interesting, people want to blame Cook for everything they feel is wrong with Apple, while denying him credit for what has gone right for Apple.
I agree, but being an end user and not a large stock holder or investor in Apple is where the problem lies. IMHO Tim Cook has not made any major strides in the traditional computer market. Tim's genius was in tightening, streaminling and gutting MacOS, MacPros, and MacBook Pro, then pushing iOS and it's devices hard. Advantage was profits for Apple, but no advantage for long time Apple users. Tim is taking away a MacOS future more and more every year. That's great for Apples bottom line and their pile of cash. Point being. His benefit was greatest for the power of the company and the money it made for their investors, not for traditional computer users.
 

Paul Dawkins

Suspended
Dec 15, 2016
365
991
Stonehenge
It's interesting, people want to blame Cook for everything they feel is wrong with Apple, while denying him credit for what has gone right for Apple.

As a ceo he gets all the credit. I'm not denying him anything. I'm just having a hard time seeing what good credit I should give him. Maybe for privacy fight against FBI, but it is unclear what is the real reason Apple did that.
 

JGRE

macrumors 65816
Oct 10, 2011
1,012
664
Dutch Mountains
4 words for you: CEOs of fortune fifehundred

All these guys are making a lot of money and it doesn't matter if we as customers think they are worth it or not. Such highend executives are hired by the board of directors and silent investors. Do I think Eddie Cue would have been the guy after Jobs? Yes I do because he has the passion, experience and will to put excellence over shortterm high revenue margins but I'm not part of the BOD.

Also I've never cared about all that other stuff, how much money the CEO makes, is he a left, right or middle wing is he anti or pro gay, lesbian or enviromental friendly or unfriendly company...all I care about is make the best possible product and provide an excellent customer service everything else is nonsense at least for me.

I don't know how familar you are with Satya Nadella but the guy made $ 18 million in 2016 much of it because his Surface lineup has turned out to be a huge success for MS:

Fifehundered or fivehundered?
[doublepost=1484063669][/doublepost]
I agree, but being an end user and not a large stock holder or investor in Apple is where the problem lies. IMHO Tim Cook has not made any major strides in the traditional computer market. Tim's genius was in tightening, streaminling and gutting MacOS, MacPros, and MacBook Pro, then pushing iOS and it's devices hard. Advantage was profits for Apple, but no advantage for long time Apple users. Tim is taking away a MacOS future more and more every year. That's great for Apples bottom line and their pile of cash. Point being. His benefit was greatest for the power of the company and the money it made for their investors, not for traditional computer users.

But in Porter's view this will not be a sustainable advantage. Now they're rich, but there will comee a day that they will regret their choices.
 

manhattanboy

macrumors 6502a
Jan 25, 2007
960
370
In ur GF's bed, Oh no he didn't!
No. What I'm suggesting is no matter which of the three choices Apple could have made on this matter, people would have whined.

Transition periods are not new. At some point the user needs to take responsibility for their situation. If you can't handle a $4 adapter after spending $$$$ for a new computer, well, there's not much else I could say to address the problem. In that case, whine on.
You were the one calling for criticism in the beginning if you recollect. I'm happy with my new MBP and also have a couple of dongles for those moment when I actually do need to connect something. But don't ask for people to complain if you do not want them to ;)
 

citysnaps

macrumors G4
Oct 10, 2011
11,919
25,870
You were the one calling for criticism in the beginning if you recollect. I'm happy with my new MBP and also have a couple of dongles for those moment when I actually do need to connect something. But don't ask for people to complain if you do not want them to ;)


Wrong. I was not "calling for criticism."

I said in another post, no matter which of the three choices available to Apple; i.e. supplying a USB C cable, supplying a USB A cable, or supplying both cables, there would be a group of people who would whine about the decision.

My view is for a buyer of a 2016 MBP to take responsibility and simply purchase a $4 adapter if needed.
 

dfelix

macrumors regular
Jul 13, 2011
112
141
Perhaps is this the only way they will listen that the core group that brought apple back, which they forgot about in capturing the fickle mainstream, is not happy with the direction they are taking with their products.

Even if it's the literal drop in the bucket.
 

ke-iron

macrumors 68000
Aug 14, 2014
1,537
1,020
Very, very likely, yes USB-C is the future. And I like it. USB-C is great.

But USB-A is the present. And only an idiot would design or buy a computer that only has ports that will probably be useful in the future and no ports that are useful today without dongles.

USB C is the future and the new MacBooks are future proof, if you need this use older ports get a dongle. You'd find yourself complaining if they'd packed it with USB A ports and 2 years from now you have to buy dongles to use with newer accessories and peripherals. 3rd party companies are heavily supporting this and are already releasing tons of USB C products.
[doublepost=1484108340][/doublepost]
If USB C is the future why is the iPhone still on lightning and still cant be connected to an MacBook Pro out of box

Because it makes sense. Apple makes money from having 3rd parties license lightning for 3rd party products and Apple is slowly moving most of their devices to less rely on physical tethers. They also want you to do wireless backups and use their own services on the phone. There is no real need for anyone to connect their iPhone to their macs anymore.
 

Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
7,775
6,251
It's interesting, people want to blame Cook for everything they feel is wrong with Apple, while denying him credit for what has gone right for Apple.
Because what went right has everything to do with Jobs whilst what went wrong has everything to do with Cook
 

DevNull0

macrumors 68030
Jan 6, 2015
2,703
5,390
USB C is the future and the new MacBooks are future proof, if you need this use older ports get a dongle. You'd find yourself complaining if they'd packed it with USB A ports and 2 years from now you have to buy dongles to use with newer accessories and peripherals.

So, deleting the port used my 99.9999% of people and devices right now is somehow future proof? You have a very odd definition.

Anyway, 30+ years of buying computers and I can tell you there is no such thing as future proof. I can tell you plenty of stories about "future proof" machines that were nothing but money wasters though.

And why do you seem to think it can only have 0 USB-A ports or all USB-A ports? Every non-Mac laptop over $1000 has both USB-A and USB-C. As every decent computer in 2016 and 2017 should.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,308
24,039
Gotta be in it to win it
Because what went right has everything to do with Jobs whilst what went wrong has everything to do with Cook
That's the issue right and wrong and who takes credit for what. what went "wrong" has everything to do where jobs left things where cook is working with a 2017 consumer mentality. What went "right" is a Similar thought, where cook is expanding on it.
 

Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
7,775
6,251
That's the issue right and wrong and who takes credit for what. what went "wrong" has everything to do where jobs left things where cook is working with a 2017 consumer mentality. What went "right" is a Similar thought, where cook is expanding on it.

Steve Jobs had left a winning formula in place.The formula assured long term profitability and ultimate user satisfaction with less bugs and fragmentation . Timmy messed with it.Sure he earned short term gains but at the cost of long term ones and upset the balance
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,308
24,039
Gotta be in it to win it
Steve Jobs had left a winning formula in place.The formula assured long term profitability and ultimate user satisfaction with less bugs and fragmentation . Timmy messed with it.Sure he earned short term gains but at the cost of long term ones and upset the balance
It's very common to rewrite history. Happens around here all of the time.

I am a satisfied customer and like the product line and am buying the products. Timmy tweaked the "winning" formula. The past is the past.
 

Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
7,775
6,251
It's very common to rewrite history. Happens around here all of the time.

I am a satisfied customer and like the product line and am buying the products. Timmy tweaked the "winning" formula. The past is the past.
His tweaking led to the following

1.Lowest op margin in 7 years
2.First decline in iPhone sales
3.iPad sales tanked
4.Production cut and pay cuts
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,308
24,039
Gotta be in it to win it
His tweaking led to the following

1.Lowest op margin in 7 years
2.First decline in iPhone sales
3.iPad sales tanked
4.Production cut and pay cuts
His tweaking also let to Apple becoming the most valuable Company with record breaking quarter after record breaking quarter. iPad sales tanked due to jobs short-sideness, imo.
 

DevNull0

macrumors 68030
Jan 6, 2015
2,703
5,390
That's the issue right and wrong and who takes credit for what. what went "wrong" has everything to do where jobs left things where cook is working with a 2017 consumer mentality. What went "right" is a Similar thought, where cook is expanding on it.

Steve gets credit for what's right because it's everything he left in motion.

Timmy gets credit for what's wrong because he hasn't actually changed anything from what Steve left him except sizes and deleting pre-existing features to make higher margins and more profits on accessories to restore his deleted features. Everything wrong at Apple is because they've done almost nothing for the past 5 years. Except brag about Timmy's clogged pipeline.

Apple is a tech company. What was good 5 years ago is crap today.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,308
24,039
Gotta be in it to win it
Steve gets credit for what's right because it's everything he left in motion.

Timmy gets credit for what's wrong because he hasn't actually changed anything from what Steve left him except sizes and deleting pre-existing features to make higher margins and more profits on accessories to restore his deleted features. Everything wrong at Apple is because they've done almost nothing for the past 5 years. Except brag about Timmy's clogged pipeline.

Apple is a tech company. What was good 5 years ago is crap today.
I give Timmy credit for what he did. Grew the revenues, grew the user base, etc. if cook didn't do anything neither did jobs and I see jobs left Tim with somewhat of a mess with the iPads and iOS.
 

Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
7,775
6,251
I give Timmy credit for what he did. Grew the revenues, grew the user base, etc.
Something all CEOs do including Nadella.No biggie. What Jobs did was something out of this world

if cook didn't do anything neither did jobs and I see jobs left Tim with somewhat of a mess with the iPads and iOS.
iPads were breaking sales records when Steve was in charge.So were iPhones. But now both are tanking under Timmy.I'd say the problem lies with Timmy.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,308
24,039
Gotta be in it to win it
Something all CEOs do including Nadella.No biggie. What Jobs did was something out of this world
Over-aggrandization is happening here. That is something all CEOs do including Tim; right?

iPads were breaking sales records when Steve was in charge.So were iPhones. But now both are tanking under Timmy.I'd say the problem lies with Timmy.
Jobs left a disaster in the ipads for Tim, imo. jobs didn't really think that through. But again I'll repeat the headliner.

Apple Set to Earn $1 Trillion in Revenue From iOS Ecosystem By Middle of 2017
 

macUser2007

macrumors 68000
May 30, 2007
1,506
203
....
I'm glad you said "I don't think so," because clearly the market thinks so, and the market dictates CEO pricing, just how free agency in major sports (without incredibly stupid salary caps and spending limits) dictates the worth of a player's skills.

Nonsense. It's a myth that there is a real "market" for CEO talent or compensation.

This summarizes the argument reasonably well:

"Considerable research shows that today’s high level of executive compensation has created an enormous societal gap between the top earners in the country and the rest of the population. Compensation has become so high that it significantly affects the profitability of even relatively large corporations. Perhaps less frequently noted are the pay plans that provide such a big performance incentive for individuals that they can lead people to take risky and even illegal actions in order to make their pay -for-performance compensation plans pay off.

The standard justification for the high pay of CEOs and other top executives is that the market demands it. It is argued that if you do not pay CEOs at or above the market, they will leave and go to a competitor. There are a number of problems with this argument. Perhaps the most important one is that numerous studies have shown that CEOs rarely move from one company to another, and when they do, they are usually less successful than internal candidates. In short, at least at the CEO level, there is little evidence that an efficient market for talent exists that is based on compensation levels.
...
Some members of corporate boards have an even greater self-interest in making sure that the compensation of the CEO continues to go up, up, and up. They are the CEOs of other companies. You don’t have to be a compensation expert to realize that if you vote for one of your peers to have a higher salary, you are in effect voting for your own salary to go up, because it is based on what will be a higher market." http://www.forbes.com/sites/edwardl...rds-not-the-market-are-to-blame/#728784f37c3a
 

macTW

Suspended
Oct 17, 2016
1,395
1,975
Nonsense. It's a myth that there is a real "market" for CEO talent or compensation.

This summarizes the argument reasonably well:

"Considerable research shows that today’s high level of executive compensation has created an enormous societal gap between the top earners in the country and the rest of the population. Compensation has become so high that it significantly affects the profitability of even relatively large corporations. Perhaps less frequently noted are the pay plans that provide such a big performance incentive for individuals that they can lead people to take risky and even illegal actions in order to make their pay -for-performance compensation plans pay off.

The standard justification for the high pay of CEOs and other top executives is that the market demands it. It is argued that if you do not pay CEOs at or above the market, they will leave and go to a competitor. There are a number of problems with this argument. Perhaps the most important one is that numerous studies have shown that CEOs rarely move from one company to another, and when they do, they are usually less successful than internal candidates. In short, at least at the CEO level, there is little evidence that an efficient market for talent exists that is based on compensation levels.
...
Some members of corporate boards have an even greater self-interest in making sure that the compensation of the CEO continues to go up, up, and up. They are the CEOs of other companies. You don’t have to be a compensation expert to realize that if you vote for one of your peers to have a higher salary, you are in effect voting for your own salary to go up, because it is based on what will be a higher market." http://www.forbes.com/sites/edwardl...rds-not-the-market-are-to-blame/#728784f37c3a
Exactly. The market for CEOs dictates pay. Those who set the pay choose to increase it. I never said the CEOs would leave, or fail if they left, etc. I said the market of CEO positions and candidates dictates pricing and it does. The article proves that. It's poorly written because of the flawed logic.
 
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