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Time Capsule Not Using Server-Grade Hard Drive As Advertised?

i make movies said:
Server grade does not mean server class. Sounds stupid, i know. The xserve, which is a bona fide server, uses desktop hard drives in it (or so someone else posted here). It's just like the term "organic". There is no regulation on what is and isn't organic. Essentially, any food maker can slap on an Organic label and charge more for their product when most people would not consider it organic. If it comes wrapped in plastic, it isn't organic.
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http://www.ccof.org/certification.php
 
ManchesterTrix said:
I know you put a winky in there, but there is such a thing as Enterprise Class SATA drives and they are different from Desktop drives.
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Note that the drive makers have two tiers of drives, "consumer" and "enterprise". Hitachi/Seagate/WD have this split.

When Apple uses the term "server grade", one would reasonably expect that they are referring to the "better" grade of drives, regardless of the actual terms used.

When it is discovered that they're using the "good" drives instead of the "better" drives - it seems dishonest.

It's especially odd considering the report that the 500 GB model is using the Seagate "ES" series drives, where "ES" means "Enterprise Storage" - the "better" drive.
 
koobcamuk said:
Agree with the decision Arn, disagree with reasoning. Server grade implies something that would be used in a server. Not a standard hard drive. If it's a standard hard drive, they shouldn't have said anything or should have said "what's used in Xserve" etc.



Classic. I'll be stealing this one.
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Actually I recall seeing an interview with Apple's COO saying "the harddrives we use in Time Capsules are the same as those in our Xserves."

I can't recall where I saw it though. But I only saw it last week. If someone could pull out the link that'd be helpful :)
 
The 500GB version has a Seagate Barracuda

Use AirPort Utility 5.2.2 to determine what model of hard drive installed in your Time Capsule.

I saw the posting on this site.
 
Clinton!

Now that I look more into it, it may be sad, but it really just comes down to verbiage. "It depends on what your definition of IS is!" LOL :rolleyes:
 
AppleMojo said:
huh? If you are going to talk crap, at least keep it relevant.
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You are going on and on like Apple didn't do it's homework. You all make it seem like apple didn't check with there legal department and asked "Is it OK for us to say "Server grade" hard drives in this ad?" Give me a break.
 
It's the bearings

As far as I'm concerned, the concept of a "server-grade" hard drive is simple. It must be designed to work 24/7. The drives that I have in my RAID array have the upgraded bearings in the mechanics.

Now I can't speak to this model, but it would be appropriate to find the MTTF for these drives if run constantly. If that MTTF is any less than 5 years, you have a point. Otherwise, let's remember that marketing takes a lot of liberties. The truth is in the data.

Microsoft said that 64kbps WMA was "CD Quality". Apple isn't that bad, yet.
 
skunk said:
If Apple had specified "enterprise grade" drives, you would have a valid argument. They didn't, and you don't.
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If he was advocating a lawsuit, he probably doesn't have a valid argument. It's a perfectly valid customer complaint, though.
 
AppleMojo said:
djc6 said:
At work we have three Xserve RAID units dating back to the original chassis with HSSDC2 Fibre Channel Ports. I knew all of the drives were Hitachi Deskstar's, but here are the part numbers used in Apple's official drive modules (grabbed via Xserve RAID admin just now):

500GB Modules - Hitachi Deskstar HDS725050KLAT80
400GB Modules - Hitachi Deskstar HDS724040KLAT80
240GB Modules - Hitachi Deskstar HDS722525VLAT80
180GB Modules - IBM Deskstar IC35L180AVV207-1

Not an Ultrastar in the bunch! They've been pretty reliable too, most of the drives we've had to replace are of the original 180GB variety from the oldest unit purchased in 2003. I don't remember replacing any of the 240/400/500GB modules.
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Matthew Yohe said:
From Hitatchi's press info on the drive:


20080301-8cdcd55rtmqg8h8qaq8d6xafqg.jpg



http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/67A68C59B27368FC862572570080FC70/$file/Deskstar7K1000_010307_final.pdf
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Excellent posts. This is perfect to end the non-sense.

There you have it, another case of whining. Less than knowledgeable users don't know what they're talking about and getting all worked up. Just classic.

So can we bring back the lawsuit posts again, just to give me a chuckle?
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Excellent Posts.

If the Hitachi Deskstar IS the hard drive that is being used in Apple Xserve servers than what is the problem? Maybe the webmasters at MacRumors should revise the "Time Capsule Not Using Server-Grade Hard Drive As Advertised" headline.

It seems like people are getting worked up over a false premise.
 
Hitachi themselves say the drive is good for:

Internal and external storage for consumer computers.
Networked storage servers
Extreme gaming machines
Video editing arrays

Notice item two? :rolleyes:

Edit: haha, seems we all posted this at the same second!
 
nikiski said:
Actually I recall seeing an interview with Apple's COO saying "the harddrives we use in Time Capsules are the same as those in our Xserves."

I can't recall where I saw it though. But I only saw it last week. If someone could pull out the link that'd be helpful :)
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You know that won't convince anyone who believes that there is a problem with the Hitachi drives.
 
Hooka said:
You are going on and on like Apple didn't do it's homework. You all make it seem like apple didn't check with there legal department and asked "Is it OK for us to say "Server grade" hard drives in this ad?" Give me a break.
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You quoted the wrong guy bud... I am on the side that thinks the whining in here is pathetic. Apple didn't make a mistake here at all. Maybe you just got me quoted on accident.
 
diamond.g said:
Most people wont even notice the difference. Besides Apple could just remove the server grade line making it a moot point.


Me too. Better yet I would like a time capsule that can plug into my existing network.
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It's NOT a moot point for those who read the ad and have already bought the product based on what Apple said.

THe drive is salled a DESKstar for a reason. Notice the word "desk" in the name. It specifically refers to the drive as being suitable for a desktop computer.

The difference typically is reliability and performance. People are getting less than they paid for.

All that said. I like these drives and have one or two of them.
 
'Nuff said.

nikiski said:
Actually I recall seeing an interview with Apple's COO saying "the harddrives we use in Time Capsules are the same as those in our Xserves."

I can't recall where I saw it though. But I only saw it last week. If someone could pull out the link that'd be helpful :)
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Here it is TidBITS - Time Capsule Ships from --

Jai Chulani Apple Senior Product Manager

Chulani clarified that the "server-grade" drives in a Time Capsule are the same 7200 rpm drives used for Apple's Xserve servers, and that they have a higher mean time between failure (MTBF) rating than consumer drives. The MTBF for server-grade drives is often 1 million hours (114 years), which is a measure of probability; in this case, that out of a set of drives with similar properties, an extremely high percentage will still be fully functional after several years.
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I think that should settle things.
 
MagicBoy said:
I've been pondering this earlier in the week.

Just bought a Maxtor DiamondMax 22 500Gb drive with 3 years warranty for Time Machine duties. It's also available as a Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 with 5 years warranty and a the Barracude ES2 (as fitted to the 500Gb Time Capsule) with the same warranty but higher MTBF figures.

3 versions of the same basic drive at three price points. Maxtor is half the price of the ES2 and 30% cheaper than the 7200.11
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Its my understanding that server grade or enterprise drives have the simple device of a more robust spindle and bearing, which allows for the higher MTBF figures. I am using enterprise grade hard drives for all my backups.
When Apple state that they are using server grade hard drives, and Hitachi cannot provide an MTBF figure these are not enterprise server drives.
 
Update to Story

Update: According to TidBITS, Apple has clarified that their assertion of "server-grade" is related to mean time between failure.
Chulani clarified that the "server-grade" drives in a Time Capsule are the same 7200 rpm drives used for Apple's Xserve servers, and that they have a higher mean time between failure (MTBF) rating than consumer drives. The MTBF for server-grade drives is often 1 million hours (114 years), which is a measure of probability; in this case, that out of a set of drives with similar properties, an extremely high percentage will still be fully functional after several years.
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Oh and for those that haven't figured it out... Apple discontinued the Xserve RAID. Where do you think all of those hard drives went? They conveniently ended up in your time capsule :)

Okay, maybe that's not true, but it seems pretty reasonable to use the same drives.
 
cameronjpu said:
You know, my English teacher always told us never to use the word "clearly" because is usually was in a sentence where the writer was making an unsupported assertion....
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You have to love nonsense rules-of-thumb.

An elephant clearly is much less agile than an orangutang, and just from the size, it's obvious it's much heavier than a mouse.

Anyway, all this about Apple using the term "server grade" is clearly a way of making people believe this will last longer than your "consumer grade" external drive, thereby making you believe this is much better, making you want it.
Just a load of BS marketing crap.
Think about it: You guys might be clever enough to see through this, but go ask your non-geeky friends (we all have a couple of them, right? haha) whether they think an external drive will be more or less dependable if someone is stating it's "server grade".
 
portishead said:
Oh and for those that haven't figured it out... Apple discontinued the Xserve RAID. Where do you think all of those hard drives went? They conveniently ended up in your time capsule :)

Okay, maybe that's not true, but it seems pretty reasonable to use the same drives.
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Xserve RAID never used the 1TB modules to my knowledge.
 
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