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I guess what has always rubbed me the wrong way is that maybe at one point you tipped to get something special, while today people expect tips for just doing their jobs. I worked in aviation for 30 years and never got tipped for making a good landing. Granted my pay was better. ;)

Yep... but in a world (well, just the US actually) where waiters are no longer paid by the restaurant, that expectation isn't unreasonable.

At least you're not British ;) . As a Brit, an American server might expect me to tip poorly (well, I'm used to 10% being an OK tip) and give me correspondingly poor service. At the end of the meal, should I confirm their stereotype or tip American-style in which case we'll both feel bad?

I don't travel to the US much, but I do 'get' the system there - and would pay 20%+ accordingly. I travel more to Japan, and much prefer their zero-tip-everywhere setup though.
 
Is the U.S. the only place where employers expect customers to pay their employee's salaries?

While in China with my wife we usually only tip when using banquet rooms or a few other settings such as service staff, otherwise we don't as it's not customary.

Amusing story bradl, thanks. Here's a couple memorable tipping stories.

On my first trip to China my wife and I were staying in a hotel near Tiananmen Square. As my wife napped I ordered a cup of coffee from room service and painstakingly counted out some Chinese currency snapping each bill as I proudly laid it into the gentleman's hand. He smiled widely and said thank you couple times in Manadrin then rushed off. Upon waking my wife was horrified to learn I tipped the guy a whopping 35 cents or so and dragged me by my wrist through the lobby until we found him and she made things right. I got lectured.

When in China we usually have a car and driver but on occasion do use taxis. My wife makes me hide as she negotiates the price. (Many services jack their fees for westerners and for Americans in particular.) After settling on a price she then tells the driver she will tip him x amount if he uses air conditioning (for me as the Chinese summers are so hot I feel I'm about to burst into flames) and x amount more if he drives safely. I found the tip for driving "safe and sane" was more valuable than the air conditioning.

Years ago we stayed at a hotel while sight-seeing in the U.S. As I loaded our bags into the car I stuffed $600 or $800 into an envelope so my wife had some spending money. I handed her the envelope back in the room and left to wait for her at the car. A few hours later I learned my wife had misunderstood and had left the envelope on the desk as a tip for the cleaning staff.

There's never a dull moment.
 
Yep... but in a world (well, just the US actually) where waiters are no longer paid by the restaurant, that expectation isn't unreasonable.

At least you're not British ;) . As a Brit, an American server might expect me to tip poorly (well, I'm used to 10% being an OK tip) and give me correspondingly poor service. At the end of the meal, should I confirm their stereotype or tip American-style in which case we'll both feel bad?

I don't travel to the US much, but I do 'get' the system there - and would pay 20%+ accordingly. I travel more to Japan, and much prefer their zero-tip-everywhere setup though.

I like Japan too, where they are insulted if you tip. :) You would not have to worry about the U.S. because the service comes before the tip. ;)

----------

While in China with my wife we usually only tip when using banquet rooms or a few other settings such as service staff, otherwise we don't as it's not customary.

Amusing story bradl, thanks. Here's a couple memorable tipping stories.

On my first trip to China my wife and I were staying in a hotel near Tiananmen Square. As my wife napped I ordered a cup of coffee from room service and painstakingly counted out some Chinese currency snapping each bill as I proudly laid it into the gentleman's hand. He smiled widely and said thank you couple times in Manadrin then rushed off. Upon waking my wife was horrified to learn I tipped the guy a whopping 35 cents or so and dragged me by my wrist through the lobby until we found him and she made things right. I got lectured.

When in China we usually have a car and driver but on occasion do use taxis. My wife makes me hide as she negotiates the price. (Many services jack their fees for westerners and for Americans in particular.) After settling on a price she then tells the driver she will tip him x amount if he uses air conditioning (for me as the Chinese summers are so hot I feel I'm about to burst into flames) and x amount more if he drives safely. I found the tip for driving "safe and sane" was more valuable than the air conditioning.

Years ago we stayed at a hotel while sight-seeing in the U.S. As I loaded our bags into the car I stuffed $600 or $800 into an envelope so my wife had some spending money. I handed her the envelope back in the room and left to wait for her at the car. A few hours later I learned my wife had misunderstood and had left the envelope on the desk as a tip for the cleaning staff.

There's never a dull moment.

You didn't know just how generous you were, lol. :)
 
Is the U.S. the only place where employers expect customers to pay their employee's salaries?

hmmmm.....well pretty much everywhere the customer is "paying" the employee's salaries; it's just that in most places the employer gets to take a cut out of what the customer pays before the employee gets any money :p

if you pay the employer the same amount you tip, the waiter would end up with even less of your reluctant tip than if you pay directly
 
Why? What would they do? Chase me down the street demanding I tip them?

No, but you do realize that minimum wage for waiters in the US is just over $2 an hour and they rely on tips, don't you?

Love it or hate it, but it's part of the culture here, and by not tipping, you're only screwing over a poorly paid waiter who might need the money to provide for his or her family.
 
No, but you do realize that minimum wage for waiters in the US is just over $2 an hour and they rely on tips, don't you?

Love it or hate it, but it's part of the culture here, and by not tipping, you're only screwing over a poorly paid waiter who might need the money to provide for his or her family.

Good job I don't live over there then and in a country that has a decent* minimum wage. :p

But no, I had no idea people were so poorly paid over there. I guess that is why many Americans I know (through the internet) work over 60 hours a week. If I were to visit, I'd probably begrudgingly tip just to be seen as polite (as tempting it would be to see the reaction if I didn't). But I'm sure glad I don't have to where I'm at.

*debatable
 
Good job I don't live over there then and in a country that has a decent* minimum wage. :p

But no, I had no idea people were so poorly paid over there. I guess that is why many Americans I know (through the internet) work over 60 hours a week. If I were to visit, I'd probably begrudgingly tip just to be seen as polite (as tempting it would be to see the reaction if I didn't). But I'm sure glad I don't have to where I'm at.

*debatable

Yeah, the situation definitely sucks with servers over here.

Honestly, you'd probably never get a reaction since you write the tip on the credit card receipt and the server typically doesn't pick that up until you leave the table (because we're also behind with chip and pin)
 
What's the difference between picking up your own food at a restaurant counter and walking over to a bar and having some guy take 5 seconds to hand you a beer bottle?

The person handing you the food over the counter is usually a hostess being paid a minimum wage around $8/hr.

The bartender is a "tipped employee" making $2.63/hr.

Why? What would they do? Chase me down the street demanding I tip them?

No, but if you don't tip, I wouldn't recommend being a repeat customer at any establishment you didn't tip at. Servers & bartenders remember people who don't tip.

For the vast majority of servers & bartenders in this country, tips are their paycheck. The small paycheck they do get goes entirely to taxes, so the only take-home income they get is tips. If you don't tip, you're essentially making that server to serve you for free.
 
Good job I don't live over there then and in a country that has a decent* minimum wage. :p

But no, I had no idea people were so poorly paid over there. I guess that is why many Americans I know (through the internet) work over 60 hours a week. If I were to visit, I'd probably begrudgingly tip just to be seen as polite (as tempting it would be to see the reaction if I didn't). But I'm sure glad I don't have to where I'm at.

*debatable

I think that's an unfair generalization. People in the U.S. are generally paid fairly. It's just that tipping is built into the compensation system for wait staff. Personally, I'd rather not have to tip (I especially don't like dealing with tips to taxi drivers), but I deal with it because that's the way it is.
 
For the vast majority of servers & bartenders in this country, tips are their paycheck. The small paycheck they do get goes entirely to taxes, so the only take-home income they get is tips. If you don't tip, you're essentially making that server to serve you for free.

Personally, I'd rather not have to tip (I especially don't like dealing with tips to taxi drivers), but I deal with it because that's the way it is.

Maybe if everybody stopped tipping, companies would pay staff correctly like they should be doing instead of relying on the consumer to cover the cost for them.

Food for thought eh?
 
Maybe if everybody stopped tipping, companies would pay staff correctly like they should be doing instead of relying on the consumer to cover the cost for them.

Food for thought eh?

If we didn't tip, food prices would be raised to cover the higher wages. The end result would be the same.
 
If we didn't tip, food prices would be raised to cover the higher wages. The end result would be the same.

But the difference would be, staff would get a stable and fair wage without having to worry about getting tips and the consumer wouldn't feel compelled to tip unless the service was astronomically good.

Everybody wins. Or at least in my mind anyway.
 
The person handing you the food over the counter is usually a hostess being paid a minimum wage around $8/hr.

The bartender is a "tipped employee" making $2.63/hr.

OK... I'm fine tipping a bartender.

But bartending doesn't take much time or effort... and drinks are expensive, so tips are relatively high. A dollar on a 4 dollar beer seems excessive. A bartender could easily make way more than the $5.37 more the hostess is getting based on 25% tips.

Should I calculate the right bartender percentage based on the amount of work he's doing vs the $5 or $6 extra per hour (s)he needs to make up? A quarter on a $4 beer sounds more realistic in this case.
 
But the difference would be, staff would get a stable and fair wage without having to worry about getting tips and the consumer wouldn't feel compelled to tip unless the service was astronomically good.

Everybody wins. Or at least in my mind anyway.

Never going to happen though. Consumers don't care and many of them don't even understand how it works. Restaurant employees are powerless. And the restaurant owners like the system the way it is cause it makes them more money and they're able to game the system to save money on taxes.

OK... I'm fine tipping a bartender.

But bartending doesn't take much time or effort... and drinks are expensive, so tips are relatively high. A dollar on a 4 dollar beer seems excessive.

You're joking, right? If not, spoken like someone who's never set foot behind a bar.

There's a lot more the bartender does to serve you your beer besides grabbing a bottle out of the cooler, popping the cap, and giving it to you.

Who puts away the beer deliveries in the storage room when a delivery comes?

Who refills and stocks all the beer coolers when they run low so there is cold beer to serve you?

Who changes the kegs?

Who washes all the glassware, then puts it away in a cooler, so there's a clean, chilled pint glass to pour your beer in?

Who cleans the bar top so you have a clean bar to sit at while you drink your beer?

And that's just for a beer. What about for mixed drinks? Martinis, manhattans, frozen drinks?

When I used to tend bar, just to make a martini involves these steps: first you had to chill the martini glass, fill the shaker with ice & measure out ingredients, shake, pour in the glass, garnish, then serve the drink, cash out the customer, wash the shaker to get it ready for the next drink, and then wash, dry, and polish the glass once it comes back after the customer is done.

It doesn't sound too difficult, but try doing it when antsy, half-in-the-bag customers are 20+ deep at your bar and every customer has an order with a half dozen drinks with different recipes. Not to mention having to verify every customer getting a drink is of age and making sure they aren't over served.


Everyone thinks bartending is easy until they step behind a bar. It's muuuch more difficult than it sounds and looks, but it's a blast if you're in a good place and don't mind running for 6-10 hours non stop without even being able to take a piss break at many points.

A bartender could easily make way more than the $5.37 more the hostess is getting based on 25% tips.

Well duh, and they should. Bartenders have much more difficult job with more responsibility and liability.

Should I calculate the right bartender percentage based on the amount of work he's doing vs the $5 or $6 extra per hour (s)he needs to make up? A quarter on a $4 beer sounds more realistic in this case.

A dollar a beer is standard. Of course, if you get a beer, and it's $4.25, leaving $5 (so the tip is .75) is fine. Obviously, you can leave less, but if you leave the bartender a quarter, don't be surprised when you are the last guy served next time you're at the bar while the bartender takes care of customers who tip better.
 
....As a Brit, an American server might expect me to tip poorly (well, I'm used to 10% being an OK tip) and give me correspondingly poor service. At the end of the meal, should I confirm their stereotype or tip American-style in which case we'll both feel bad?....

most of you confirm their expectations anyway, so why not you? :p Typically though, you'll get the same quality (good or bad) of service they give the rest of their customers and then they'll just grumble about how bad europeans behave when traveling in the US

edit; my nephew who worked in a restaurant tells me servers in the US often think europeans are going to be rude to them as well as being lousy tippers
 
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No, but you do realize that minimum wage for waiters in the US is just over $2 an hour and they rely on tips, don't you?

Love it or hate it, but it's part of the culture here, and by not tipping, you're only screwing over a poorly paid waiter who might need the money to provide for his or her family.

Not in places like Seattle and even then, it's more than 2 bucks an hr everywhere else I thought
 
@zioxide
It's his job to do the things you said. And really, it's not that hard, ffs it's not rocket science. If he doesn't earn enough, he should find a better job. It's not my fault he has a crap salary.

When i visited the US i found out everybody there tips automatically for almost any thing. Heck i even saw people at McDonald's tip.

Here in Europe, we don't usually tip. Maybe at a nice restaurant, if the service and food were super good we leave a tip, but not very much - maybe 10%. :)

if you leave the bartender a quarter, don't be surprised when you are the last guy served next time you're at the bar while the bartender takes care of customers who tip better.
One bartender did that to me. Bad luck for him, cause the owner is a good friend of mine and he fired him next monday.
Really! That's just disrespectful! I won't allow a goddamn bartender treat me like that.


I only tip good prostitutes, not that i want to, but the good ones are hard to find and when i see one i make sure she will be available next time i need.
 
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You're joking, right?
;)

There's a lot more the bartender does to serve you your beer besides grabbing a bottle out of the cooler, popping the cap, and giving it to you.

...stuff...
These tasks don't sound unreasonably arduous or stressful.

And that's just for a beer. What about for mixed drinks? Martinis, manhattans, frozen drinks?

When I used to tend bar, just to make a martini involves these steps: first you had to chill the martini glass, fill the shaker with ice & measure out ingredients, shake, pour in the glass, garnish, then serve the drink, cash out the customer, wash the shaker to get it ready for the next drink, and then wash, dry, and polish the glass once it comes back after the customer is done.
You're right (and I actually said the same in an earlier comment).

Maybe I just need to stick to cocktails so I know I'm getting good value for my dollar.

Everyone thinks bartending is easy until they step behind a bar. It's muuuch more difficult than it sounds and looks, but it's a blast if you're in a good place and don't mind running for 6-10 hours non stop without even being able to take a piss break at many points.
There are lots of jobs like that. The tip system seems to reward bar tending very well compared to similarly non-stop jobs that require higher skill and training (like teaching).

edit; my nephew who worked in a restaurant tells me servers in the US often think europeans are going to be rude to them as well as being lousy tippers
*takes note*

I'll have to remember to do that next time I'm there.
 
@zioxide
It's his job to do the things you said. And really, it's not that hard, ffs it's not rocket science.

Yes, it is his job, and he deserves to be fairly compensated for it. In the US, that compensation is tips.

I never claimed it was "hard". I just explained that there's a hell of a lot more involved than simply opening a beer and handing it to a customer.

One bartender did that to me. Bad luck for him, cause the owner is a good friend of mine and he fired him next monday.
Really! That's just disrespectful! I won't allow a goddamn bartender treat me like that.

No more disrespectful than tipping like crap. And since tipping started as reward for good service (although its now treated as the tipped employees wage), it makes sense that the bartender is going to take care of the better tipping customer first. Why's he going to sacrifice a good tip for a bad tip?

These tasks don't sound unreasonably arduous or stressful.

Never claimed they were on their own. Just pointing out how much more behind the scenes stuff goes on that most people don't realize the bartender does.

In the middle of the rush, when you're in the weeds with 15 deep at the bar and tickets & dirty glasses piling up, it can get pretty crazy and stressful. You need to be good at multitasking and have a cool head and then you're fine.


There are lots of jobs like that. The tip system seems to reward bar tending very well compared to similarly non-stop jobs that require higher skill and training (like teaching).

Good bartenders can make a pretty good living, but like anything there's trade offs. Long hours, late nights, high stress hours, & responsibilities regarding serving alcohol.

You won't make more than a teacher though unless you're in an extremely high end restaurant.
 
....it makes sense that the bartender is going to take care of the better tipping customer first. Why's he going to sacrifice a good tip for a bad tip?...

I'm reminded of buying drinks at bars in Italy years ago.........the bartender would take the order then the customer goes to the cashier and pays, getting a receipt in the process, and then places the receipt on the bar with the tip quite visible on top of it while waiting for the bartender to make the drink.......and it could be a very long wait if the tip wasn't big enough in the bartender's opinion :p
 
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