Tipping

[Unspeaked]

You are absolutely correct. But tips should never be assumed. That's my problem. People assume you are supposed to tip, its become such a huge part of this eating out culture. If we are supposed to tip for a service, I should be tipping my teachers, the dude working at Target, etc.

Obviously, you're entitled to your opinion, and tipping is a very personal thing (as this thread shows) but the difference between teachers, retail workers, etc. is that they all make minimum wage (at least).

I suppose it's different for you, living in WA, but for people living in states where servers make as little as a buck or two an hour, tips make a huge difference.

 

[anjinha]

The servers, as I gather from this thread, are paid below minimal wages as the restaurant factor in tips as their wages.

This is your standard, it differs for people to people, from different countries, different backgrounds, we all have different expectations. The servers at least need some form of protection from these variables.

If they want tips they should do a good job. If they need the extra money from the tips they should work hard for them. I'm not against tipping. I'm against tipping as a standard, even when a server does a bad job.

 

[cycocelica]

Wait, so you refuse to tip, even though waiters don't make minimum wage and need tips to survive. So you suggest that they be forced to pay minimum wage to waiters.....

So I am supposed to tip someone who did their job because well, they did their job? And this is only in a few select industries. But we never think to tip in other industries such as grocery stores, etc. There is something slightly wrong with this I feel like.

And as for the person working in the restaurant industry, they choose to do that. I am sorry if its hard to find a job right now, but if you want to make a decent living, I wouldn't put that in the hands of someone else. Suck it up. You picked that job, you deserve the pay you get. This all goes back to other industries not getting tipped and someone simply doing their job.

 

[angelneo]

If they want tips they should do a good job. If they need the extra money from the tips they should work hard for them. I'm not against tipping. I'm against tipping as a standard, even when a server does a bad job.

I'm fine with rewarding good performance as well. But when servers protest that tips are mandatory when it is part of their wages, it complicates the whole process.

 

[teflon]

It's one thing to tip the waiter/waitress for doing a good job but why are we expected to tip them just for serving us? Aren't they paid by their employer to do just that?

I don't mind tipping at all I just don't like the mentality that we "have to" tip someone for doing their job and if we don't it's rude or something. Teachers don't get tips and their job is much harder and much more important than waitressing.

But they are paid under the minimum wage by their employer. If everyone have your mentality, then no waiter would ever meet the minimum wage.
Teachers have much higher pay than waiters.

Because for what ever messed up reason the restaurant industry doesnt pay the employee's the wage they need to live off of which is the minimum wage. I assume to keep the bottom line as low as possible so that the low prices attract people to go and eat out at a restaurant because I know if restaurants had to pay minimum wage, your food would be EXPENSIVE.

In Canada the minimum wage is $8 or above for all but one province, and food is not absurdly expensive.
The problem with the U.S.'s system is that the employees do not get the minimum wage, therefore tipping becomes customary in order for the waiters to meet minimum wage. If everyone gets paid at least the minimum wage, then tips can be more of an option, as it is just bonus.

 

[anjinha]

But they are paid under the minimum wage by their employer. If everyone have your mentality, then no waiter would ever meet the minimum wage.
Teachers have much higher pay than waiters.



In Canada the minimum wage is $8 or above for all but one province, and food is not absurdly expensive.
The problem with the U.S.'s system is that the employees do not get the minimum wage, therefore tipping becomes customary in order for the waiters to meet minimum wage. If everyone gets paid at least the minimum wage, then tips can be more of an option, as it is just bonus.

No one here is against tipping. I'm only against tipping when the waiters do a bad job. I have no problem tipping if they do a good job. If they are worried about meeting the minimum wage they should try their best to do a great job.

I've worked as a waitress. I didn't expect tips, especially if I did a bad job.

 

[philamac]

Obviously, you're entitled to your opinion, and tipping is a very personal thing (as this thread shows) but the difference between teachers, retail workers, etc. is that they all make minimum wage (at least).

I suppose it's different for you, living in WA, but for people living in states where servers make as little as a buck or two an hour, tips make a huge difference.

Actually, servers make minimum wage too. They may be on the clock for two bucks an hour, but laws state that if they don't earn enough to make minimum wage, then the employer has to make up the difference. At the end of the day, server's minimum wage = retail workers = mc donalds workers.

BUT, the server has the opportunity to go beyond minimum wage by providing top notch service and earning enough tips to move beyond minimum wage. So in the end, the waiter/waitress is in a better spot than the retail worker or the guy at mc donalds. They just have to really work for it.

SOOOOOOOO, with that argument hopefully out of the way.... why tip someone who really really doesn't deserve it?

 

[Mord]

I don't unless the serving person has particularly endeared themselves to me.

 

[Peterkro]

As a waiter in Australia I was earning around $18 to $21 an hour during the week, up to $28 an hour on weekends and around $38 an hour on public holidays. In Australia the wait staff don't just take orders, they deliver and clear food, take drinks orders, clean and re-lay the tables. We don't have "bus boys" and drinks waiters are few and far between, usually they're sommeliers in the higher end restaurants.

We don't expect a tip here because well, at those rates we don't rely on them to live. People still do tip if they think you've delivered excellent service and those tips are usually spread out between floor and kitchen staff.

I think the s*ithouse wage wait staff earn in the US is deplorable. Staff should not rely on the kindness of others to make minimum wage. The wage rates I listed above were the mandated wages for my level of experience and age and were pretty damned good if you ask me - still hated the work but the money was always pretty good.

Now, most wait staff are employed on a casual basis and if the place isn't big enough to warrant attention from the authorities they will pay the staff significantly less in cash under the table. Even then it's around $15 an hour.

I will tip in a country where the custom asks for it but if it doesn't then you'll get a tip if you've provided excellent service.

That seems to me a much better situation, I don't tip anyone unless they've gone out of their way to help and that's as likely to be a mechanic or other tradesperson as it is a waiter.If your a waiter join a union, if your a consumer and you ask a waiter if they rely on tips for their wage leave and go elsewhere if there is no elsewhere eat at home. Tell everyone you know about sweatshop restaurants and boycott them,have some pride people waiters are doing a necessary job pay them properly.Land of the free my arse.

 

[rhsgolfer33]

You're from california, no one in CA gets paid less than state minimum wage, there's no special case for servers in California. It's not the point, but you know... fyi.

I'm not saying I don't do the whole standard tip thing, but hypothetically, if you do something poorly, why should you be rewarded, at all, over what you're already contracted to receive? Do the words 'tip' and 'bonus' have no meaning to you?

Even the smallest employee in a large company receives a bonus because a company credits all its employees as a collective, for doing a good job and making the company profitable. This can't be compared to the one-on-one relationship between customer - service - server.

I do know no one is supposed to make less than minimum wage in California, but in quite a few other states they do. Regardless of whether the law guarantees you minimum wage or not, I can vouch for a good number of restaurant employees I know who are not making.

And I agree, you shouldn't expect to be rewarded for doing something poorly, and I'm not saying tipping all servers is the way it should be, but its the way it is; people being cheap and not tipping servers that make $4 an hour isn't proving anything other than how cheap they are and it certainly won't change the situation.

You are basing your collective model on what a lot of organizations are moving away from, sure, your work is collective for the company, but there has been a movement towards more individual assessment and reward.

The coffee shop employee and the steakhouse employee are doing almost the same thing. So why wouldn't you tip them if you asked for their service? This is of course going off what you say.

But it isn't the same. I do not require a significant level of service at a coffee shop, the same as I do not require a significant level of service at a McDonalds. At a restaurant I require a significant amount of service, if I didn't it would be called fastfood and I wouldn't tip for it, just as I don't tip for takeout at a restaurant (simply ringing me up and bringing me my food in a bag is not a significant level of service).

And comparing a server at a fine steakhouse to a coffee shop employee is ridiculous. Servers at fine restaurants move around the table in a particular manner, server in certain orders, and create far more conversation that the local starbucks worker. Most servers at a good steakhouse, at least in this area, have been working in the restaurant industry for quite a few years, and some of them make over $1000 a night in tips.

And if restaurants started including tip in the bill, those restaurants would never see my business.

I guess you don't eat out much when you travel, including gratuity is a fairly common practice in many European countries. Either that or they charge you a "cover charge" up to a few euros to sit down and eat. I think it should be automatically added to the bill here, would make things far easier.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

Unsurprisingly, there's a bit of a split in opinion between North Americans and those of us from elsewhere. Over here™, I think it's fair to say tipping is very much seen as an extra bonus for good service rather than providing part of the worker's wage.

Personally, I don't tip unless the meal and service has been good, but then that's way it is here. Some places now add an extra gratuity on as part of the bill, people generally aren't happy about this as they feel they're expected to pay extra whether or not the service was good, rather than rewarding exemplary service by choice.

However, it's important to know what the custom is when you're abroad. For example, we tipped as a matter of course when we were in Canada because that's the convention there. If you're having a drink in a bar you'll tip the barman for example, if you were to do that in a pub over here believe me you'd get a very funny look.

 

[philamac]

I do know no one is supposed to make less than minimum wage in California, but in quite a few other states they do. Regardless of whether the law guarantees you minimum wage or not, I can vouch for a good number of restaurant employees I know who are not making.

And I agree, you shouldn't expect to be rewarded for doing something poorly, and I'm not saying tipping all servers is the way it should be, but its the way it is; people being cheap and not tipping servers that make $4 an hour isn't proving anything other than how cheap they are and it certainly won't change the situation.

I don't know how to make it any clearer. Anybody legally working in the USA is lawfully entitled to the federal minimum wage of $6.55 an hour.
Tipped employees may be clocked at something as low as $2.13 an hour, but if their tips and wage don't add up to $6.55 an hour, the employer has to make up the difference!!

So... Why would you tip a crappy server giving you bad service, knowing he's making the same minimum wage that thousands of other Americans make? What is the point of this compulsive tipping behavior that we've all grown so accustomed to? Why do bad servers 'deserve' more than the average American?

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Thats if you think of tipping as leaving a tip or not leaving a tip. Its not so black and white. To me anyways, it seems like most people tip 15%, thats it, no matter how good or how bad the service. I think most service deserves a tip, I never, no matter how terrible the service leave nothing, 10% is the minimum I leave, thats for terrible service. I will leave 15% for average, and depending on quality of services from there I will leave up to 40% or 45%. If people rewarded quality service more substantially we would see more quality service, but they don't, its 15% all around, no matter how good your service is.
.

I used to go by the same rules that you listed above. 10% tip was as low as I was willing to go. That was until this summer I was out with my GF and the waiter was alful. I had to flag the hoisted down to get refills after waiting 10-15 mins. The waiter never check on us. We order an appetizer which took forever to get to us and when it did come she just dropped it on the table and said nothing. Food took awhile and was delivered the same way.

Needless to say i was pissed. So pissed all I wanted was my check and to leave. I did not want to deal with the manger. Tip I left on the 30 bill. $0.01. Reason I left the $0.01 instead of just 0.00 was to make a point I though about it and to insult the service. It was awful. I had some bad service before and left the 10% but never anything this bad.

 

[wordmunger]

So I am supposed to tip someone who did their job because well, they did their job? And this is only in a few select industries. But we never think to tip in other industries such as grocery stores, etc. There is something slightly wrong with this I feel like.

Maybe, but that's the way it is. I'm guessing you don't go out very much, or don't often return to the same restaurant. If a server knows you don't tip, you're going to get lousy service.

And as for the person working in the restaurant industry, they choose to do that. I am sorry if its hard to find a job right now, but if you want to make a decent living, I wouldn't put that in the hands of someone else. Suck it up. You picked that job, you deserve the pay you get. This all goes back to other industries not getting tipped and someone simply doing their job.

And you chose not to tip, so you shouldn't complain if you get terrible service. After all, you are aware that compensation the restaurant industry is based on tipping, and that the only recourse of servers is to give poor service to people who don't tip.

If you get around this by visiting lots of different restaurants so servers don't know if you're going to tip, then you're mooching off the rest of us who do tip. We're subsidizing your meal.

 

[biker74]

Here in the UK, we tip if we get good service, waiter, hairdresser, taxi driver etc.

But it seems that in the US, everyone expects a tip. Yes, if good service is received a tip will be forthcoming. I was on a coach trip the other week and was informed by the guide that she EXPECTS between 4 - 8 dollars in tip per person. Sufficed to say, the fact she said that she got nothing from most people on the coach and at best she got a couple of bucks, if she hadn't said a thing about it, she would have done a lot better.

I've been in places where a valet puts his hand out for a tip, or a taxi driver puts his hand out expecting a tip - sorry mate, if the service was crap, your getting nothing from me, especially if your hand is out waiting on silver dropping into it.

But I have to agree, the minimum wage in the US is pretty crap and generally if the service is fine I'll tip, usually about 10% of the bill I think.

 

[Cabbit]

I would never tip, that what there wages are and when i worked as a waitress i never expected a tip ether. Main point is if the job does not pay for its self then get another job don't reply on people topping up your wages when that is what your employer should be doing.

 

[Abstract]

I agree with those people who have said tipping is absolutely stupid unless the person serving you has done an excellent job. I really do wish that we just switched to a system where waiters got paid $10-12 per hour and the prices were adjusted accordingly. The price per $12 main course would probably increase to $14, but at least I know that the waiter is paid a fair wage, and I don't feel obligated to tip anymore.

Bartenders shouldn't get tipped more than $0.50 if its really busy out. If everyone tips $1, they probably get around $40-50/hour in tips for that night, easy. That's 40-50 customers, or 40-50 drinks poured per hour. Then add their wage per hour....

I haven't tipped 15% in 5 years, so excuse me if I'm not looking forward to all this tipping bulls***.



On that note, I'll still tip an average of 15% because waiters get paid crap, and it's not their fault that the "system" we use is so crap.



I also don't understand why Canada doesn't simply include tax into the price you see on the price-tag, but anyway....

 

[iGary]

Seems like every store around has a tip jar anymore.

If someone is extremely nice to me or provides really exemplary service I may put my change in there, but unless you wait on me at a table or a bar, I'm not giving you anything extra.

I would never tip, that what there wages are and when i worked as a waitress i never expected a tip ether. Main point is if the job does not pay for its self then get another job don't reply on people topping up your wages when that is what your employer should be doing.

Not sure what it is now, but when I waited tables, we got paid like $2.05 an hour. We had to get tips to make any money. I know it's different in the UK.

 

[Cabbit]

Seems like every store around has a tip jar anymore.

If someone is extremely nice to me or provides really exemplary service I may put my change in there, but unless you wait on me at a table or a bar, I'm not giving you anything extra.



Not sure what it is now, but when I waited tables, we got paid like $2.05 an hour. We had to get tips to make any money. I know it's different in the UK.

£8.40 an hour with free food i got and 1 hour total break for a 8 hour shift. We had a tip jar in the back but it was not on display any tips we got was split between every member of staff, including the dish washer boy and the cooks.

 

[Macaddicttt]

And as for the person working in the restaurant industry, they choose to do that. I am sorry if its hard to find a job right now, but if you want to make a decent living, I wouldn't put that in the hands of someone else. Suck it up. You picked that job, you deserve the pay you get. This all goes back to other industries not getting tipped and someone simply doing their job.

I think you just solved poverty in the US. All those people who have "chosen" poor paying jobs just need to suck it up. Yeah, that's right. Then it's all good. No more poverty problem. And when they get sick, or their kid gets sick, and they didn't make enough money for health insurance, they just need to suck it up. And if someone drives drunk and hits their car, and they don't have enough money for a new one to get to work, they just need to suck it up.

Why didn't anyone think of this solution before?

Have you no concern for your fellow man?

 

[leekohler]

So I am supposed to tip someone who did their job because well, they did their job? And this is only in a few select industries. But we never think to tip in other industries such as grocery stores, etc. There is something slightly wrong with this I feel like.

And as for the person working in the restaurant industry, they choose to do that. I am sorry if its hard to find a job right now, but if you want to make a decent living, I wouldn't put that in the hands of someone else. Suck it up. You picked that job, you deserve the pay you get. This all goes back to other industries not getting tipped and someone simply doing their job.

As someone who's worked in the restaurant biz for two decades (I no longer do, precisely because of people like you), you're the kind of person who's food I'd spit in.

People take jobs they have to (for the most part) in order to get to better jobs later. I made $2.25/hour because restaurants expect you to make tips. Some would even TAKE part of your tips, which is illegal, but they'd still do it. If you'd like your check totals to go through the roof so that waiters can be paid a decent wage, that's fine- please suggest it. But to say that people don't even deserve tips when they don't even make minimum wage is ridiculous and just plain rude.

I would never tip, that what there wages are and when i worked as a waitress i never expected a tip ether. Main point is if the job does not pay for its self then get another job don't reply on people topping up your wages when that is what your employer should be doing.

It's obvious you don't live in the US.

 

[Unspeaked]

I don't know how to make it any clearer. Anybody legally working in the USA is lawfully entitled to the federal minimum wage of $6.55 an hour.
Tipped employees may be clocked at something as low as $2.13 an hour, but if their tips and wage don't add up to $6.55 an hour, the employer has to make up the difference!!

I don't know how to make it any clearer: this does not always happen.

As I know from my own experience with friends working as servers - and as other people have pointed out all over this thread - there are plenty of times folks go home making $2 an hour, end of story.

Whether this is due to ignorance on their part or because of the employer, I do not know.

I realize it must come as a shock to you to hear that something illegal is happening at a business in the United States, but it happens.

 

[leekohler]

I don't know how to make it any clearer: this does not always happen.

As I know from my own experience with friends working as servers - and as other people have pointed out all over this thread - there are plenty of times folks go home making $2 an hour, end of story.

Whether this is due to ignorance on their part or because of the employer, I do not know.

I realize it must come as a shock to you to hear that something illegal is happening at a business in the United States, but it happens.

In all my 20 years in restaurants, I've never heard of an employer making up wages if tips fell short- NEVER.

 

[anjinha]

But to say that people don't even deserve tips when they don't even make minimum wage is ridiculous and just plain rude.

No one here is saying waiters shouldn't get tipped, we're just saying they shouldn't get tipped IF they do a bad job.

If they want tips they should go a good job, specially if they really need the money. I'm not going to tip them for bad service. And no, I don't feel sorry for them if they don't bother to do a good job. Now if they do a good job I am more than happy to tip and to tip well.

 

[leekohler]

No one here is saying waiters shouldn't get tipped, we're just saying they shouldn't get tipped IF they do a bad job.

If they want tips they should go a good job, specially if they really need the money. I'm not going to tip them for bad service. And no, I don't feel sorry for them if they don't bother to do a good job. Now if they do a good job I am more than happy to tip and to tip well.

Several people have said they don't tip regardless, even on this page and including the poster I responded to.

And no- of course people don't deserve tips if they've done a bad job. So- should your salary be docked when you do a bad job as well? Just asking.