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That's true, which is probably why it's profitable for companies. Some people put more value on "peace of mind" than others, so, it comes down to a purely personal decision whether or not to buy it.

It's not so much a matter of valuing "peace of mind," it's really more about defining "peace of mind." Personally, I'd get no peace of mind out of betting that my new computer will be less reliable than the company which made it believes it to be. The reason it would give me no peace of mind is that the company knows the odds that it will break and I don't -- and they will price that "peace of mind" so that in the long run, they are going to win the bet. I would get little comfort out of knowing that I'd made a bet on such poor odds. But people buy lottery tickets, so what do I know?

Personal choice, yes -- but informed choice, which requires knowledge. I get the distinct impression that most of these choices are made on feelings and a maybe a little anecdotal evidence. I'm suggesting that feelings aren't very informative, and "for instance" is not a proof. From the reactions, I have to say that this suggestion is taken with not a little bit of resentment.
 
Best thing to do is to get a student to go get the notebook for you!!

13% discount on everthing PLUS Apple care is £50 in UK :D
 
Alright, so here's my situation...

SR 2.2 MBP

Based on what I have been reading, I do indeed have a computer that has a possibility for the bad GPU. I have about 20 days until my 1st year is up. I never bought Applecare in the first place because I am a computer repair tech and fix computers all the time. I always thought that I could fix it if anything (normal) came my way. However, a GPU related problem would be a little out of my hands for the sheer price factor. Do you think that Apple would still replace/repair a computer that has the defective GPU even if it were out of warranty? Like an extension for the GPU only. Very much like the batteries a couple of years ago.

Now, I'm thinking about buying Applecare only because of the GPU scare.

What do you all think??

Tyler

You know the second you decide not to get Apple Care your computer will blow up:p or the drivers will leave.. (that happened to my PC but that happening lead me to get a mac)
 
You apparently haven't understood anything I've said. Put it this way: If I offered you 50-1 odds on your ability to roll three sixes in a row on a die, would you take it?

More like you don't understand what you're saying. This has nothing to do with your earlier "profits" rationale, which you cited as the reason and proof positive that something has "poor value" if it's profitable for the sellers. The fact that one makes a profit does not ipso facto mean it is poor value. That was a dumb argument, and easily disposed of.

Since you're no longer defending it, you've effectively discarded it.

The argument you're now trying to make is a different one -- that the odds of a lemon are so low that there's not much point in insuring against it. Unfortunately, you're just pulling improbable numbers out of thin air.

For one, I don't think that the probablity of something going wrong with your Mac during the warranty period is 1 in 216, or the chance of "rolling 3 sixes in a row" on a six-sided die. That's 215 in 216 Macs having no warranty-covered problems within its lifetime. Really? Even you don't believe that.

Even if just 5% of Macs (a far more reasonable number even at a guess) have a problem within the relevant period, that's "odds" of 19-1. If this were a bookmakers' and you were offering 50-1 odds that your computer would fail at a rate of 2% (do the math) -- then it would be a very good deal indeed.

The problem is you're not being offered "odds". The insurance "payout" is not $50 for every dollar you put in. Rather, the payout depends only on the severity of the repair job and the cost of replacement parts. They could be anything from below even returns (less than the cost of AppleCare) to better than even returns (more than the cost of AppleCare). This is not a function of the "odds" offered but rather a function of the extent of the repair job.

You oversimplify (wrongly), and confuse gambling odds with the type of odds at play in insuring an item. Once again, your analogy is completely inapt. The more apposite argument is: if you KNOW that the failure rate is 5%, 1 in 20, or 19-1, is it good value to insure, given that that you can buy a Mac 20 times and have it fail just once? That's a legit question, and most might conclude, "No."

The problem is, you DON'T KNOW the failure rate. Your argument independent of the actual rate of failure is thus based on pure guesswork, and nothing more. And this is the nub of your mathematical and logical fallacy: you're assuming before the event that you know what the probable failure rate of your machine is. Unless you're claiming to know the likelihood of component failure before the event, your argument is fruitless.
 
I always get AppleCare on computers that are not easily serviceable. So far I have it on my Macbook and my parents iMac. Never bothered getting it with my Powermac G5 and Mac Pro.
 
I totally agree, and I understand this. The value of say, a car insurance policy, is to insure you against a loss which you could not afford to pay.

Exactly. So why do you assume that it is never good value for someone who finds that he cannot afford to pay in the event of a loss? You're assuming that the factual situation of everyone else is the same when it clearly isn't. It could be the case that they could not afford the loss of junking the computer, in which case it would be "good value" to have insured it, according to your reasoning here. Yet you apparently think that it is, a priori, never good value. You contradict yourself.

The reason it would give me no peace of mind is that the company knows the odds that it will break and I don't

Precisely. Since you cannot know, then obviously you cannot call the deal good or bad value before the event. Profits are not an indicator of value, otherwise all insurance would be "bad value" by definition, which as we've already demonstrated, is absurd.

Personal choice, yes -- but informed choice, which requires knowledge. I get the distinct impression that most of these choices are made on feelings and a maybe a little anecdotal evidence. I'm suggesting that feelings aren't very informative, and "for instance" is not a proof. From the reactions, I have to say that this suggestion is taken with not a little bit of resentment.

Knowledge that you don't have. This applies equally to your mathematically unrigorous and logically inept guesswork about the failure rate of Apple products, without which your conclusory assertions of "bad value" cannot be justified. So, speak for yourself.
 
More like you don't understand what you're saying. This has nothing to do with your earlier "profits" rationale, which you cited as the reason and proof positive that something has "poor value" if it's profitable for the sellers. The fact that one makes a profit does not ipso facto mean it is poor value. That was a dumb argument, and easily disposed of.

No, I completely understand what I am saying. You are simply ignoring or belittling any argument that doesn't work for you. Where I come from, this is not the same thing as refuting the argument.

You can guess all you like about the failure rate of Macs. Personally, I don't see the point as they will always be guesses. Only Apple really knows what percentage of their computers require warranty service -- and they price their extended warranties accordingly.

The point about Apple pricing AppleCare policies to be profitable is too simple and obvious to require "defending." They price them such that they can be assured that on average they will pay out less in claims than they collect in premiums. This means for the consumer that, on average, they will collect less in service than they pay for the policy. This is a very simple and completely accurate point. I can only suppose that you haven't even attempted to refute it because you can't.

BTW, all insurance is a "bad value" by a financial definition, which does not mean that we should never buy it. I've already explained a rationale for when buying it (including AppleCare) makes sense, but you ignored that too, presumably because it didn't work for you.

Anyway, let me know if you're interested in discussing this any further in a reasonable fashion. If not, I've made my points, and I'm done.
 
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