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You mean like the new MacPro, the apple watch, 4k and 5k iMacs, Retina MacBook Pros, and the incredibly thin Retina Macbook

That is insignificant compared to what Apple did 2001-2011. Sure, the products you listed are innovative, but look at how long it took Apple to release them.
  • Mac Pro: released in 2013, hasn't been updated since.
  • Apple Watch: shouldn't even have to comment.
  • iMac: I'll give you that one.
  • RMBPs: great the first 3 years, but long overdue for an update and still uses Intel Haswell!
  • Retina MacBook: sure, I was impressed when it was first released. But since then competitors have released thinner and faster laptops, in some cases with build quality on par with Apple's.
Yes, Apple has released/updated products, but they are nothing compared to their old products, and in some cases, even worse than competitors.
 
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Enough of this. It seems that every article is just a springboard for Apple hate.

Believe it or not, Apple engineers and many others (heck, maybe even Tim Cook from time to time) browse MR. MR themselves can confirm this, with traffic coming directly from Cupertino, and showing as being from newer or unreleased OS X/iOS builds.

And yet at every single tenuous opportunity, all they'll see is rubbish like this where it's not called for. Ironically enough, the actual valid criticisms for how Apple can genuinely improve will be completely lost. They'll shrug their shoulders and think "well, you guys will never be happy no matter what we do."
They'll always be unjustified criticism. Has the volume increased? I hear and share your frustration. At times, it's difficult to sift through the whole to find attempts at arriving at factual information.

I wouldn't worry about your last sentence, though. That might be an initial, frustrated impression by an onlooker, but there's value found here. Apple knows, or should know that.
 
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hehe... i like the part where Steve said "I'm not a genius.."

Your always going to get more hate with Apple, just because they market the most, and build stores like there is no tomorrow..... Makes sense.

You would think u would slow down as u get older.... but in Apple's case, they speed up.
 
I lived 2 miles from that store when it opened. Remember how much ridicule they received from the industry and other mall stores? Apple Stores were seen as neophyte fantasy lands where sales would crash and burn $/sq.ft... now look at them.

The Apple stores are still refreshing to stroll into. They aren't a bombardment of dime-n-dollar junk.

It's times like this you realize how much Apple did in 2001-2011 and how little Apple has done over the past 5 years.
The stuff in that store looks so ancient and clunky... and I remember the loathsome speeds with SD video and the heating problems... Apple was amazing between 1999 and 2011. I wonder if 10 more years will have the same devices you see now, almost no changes in design or function.
 
When the Apple Store was first announced, none of us thought it would even be successful let alone the most valuable retail space in the world.
 
Fun fact: One of my temp jobs was at a little company operating out of a small business park in San Jose, CA that processed the sweepstakes cards customers filled out at the opening of the Apple stores. 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, entering the name and address of 300-400 people each day into a computer database.
 
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and the rMB is a complete monument to absolute stupidity that is Timmy. It's thin. But it has less computing performance than an entry level mac from 2010. It has a keyboard that should be outlawed as a torture instrument. It should not exist and only serves to make Apple and Timmy a laughing stock among non-koolaid drinkers.

People said the same about Steve and the original Macbook Air. Apple has time and again released a product that was maybe too far ahead of it's time that people laughed at originally, then couldn't live with out.
 
Well he *did* bring the an iphone, an ipod touch etc. all in one device.. I still have that video on my NAS i keep playing it coz it like it.

I would also doubt agree, even the stores got bigger from back them..... i mean how can u build stores today with as little money ? u can't. so they would have to be like smaller type stores compared to giant better glass type stores u see now-days..

It's like looking at an ad at body weight loss. The "before" guy has got a bald spot, and looks dumpy-looking , but you look at the "after" and he's dressed in a business suit ready for a night out.
 
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That is insignificant compared to what Apple did 2001-2011. Sure, the products you listed are innovative, but look at how long it took Apple to release them.
  • Mac Pro: released in 2013, hasn't been updated since.
  • Apple Watch: shouldn't even have to comment.
  • iMac: I'll give you that one.
  • RMBPs: great the first 3 years, but hasn't received great update in nearly 6 years, and still use Intel Haswell!
  • Retina MacBook: sure, I was impressed when it was first released. But since then competitors have released thinner and faster laptops, in some cases with build quality on par with Apple's.

Sure Apple has released/updated products, but they are nothing compared to their old products, and in some cases, even worse than competitors.

That's impressive considering they came out just over 3 years ago.
 
One of the smartest things they ever did. Took a company and product line that few had access too and allowed them to get to know Apple. Allowed them to set standards high in the customers mind with their support and retail approach.
 
It's times like this you realize how much Apple did in 2001-2011 and how little Apple has done over the past 5 years.

Siri, Metal, Swift, 64-bit ARM, Apple Pay, Apple Watch, New Apple TV, and Apple Music all count for nothing?

Even Google don't make that argument! Look at their products they've rolled out to ensure they stay competitive.

Oh wait, sorry, I forgot which website I was on.
 
It's times like this you realize how much Apple did in 2001-2011 and how little Apple has done over the past 5 years.

No kidding! This was one of the better moves Apple made, as it helped overcome anti-Apple bias, which existed at about every retailer who carried their products and did a horrible job (aside from small independent shops supporting their stuff).

What they've done in the past 5 years, is as I suppose should be expected, manage their supply chain and ride the back of the success generated during the said period. When people said Apple was doomed shortly after Jobs died, I thought they were nuts (and they were, because they pointed at the wrong reasons). Certainly, I thought, Jobs ideology ran through Apple, and he'd have picked a good successor.

But, i think I was wrong. It seems more like... when dad's gone, the spoiled kids start to rebel and quickly forget everything they've been taught, and the new dad isn't anything much like the old one. He's a manager like no other, but not a visionary like Jobs, and seems to have other things on his mind than keeping Apple in check with it's previous values.

This is very sad to see for an Apple evangelist of over 30 years. :(
 
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People said the same about Steve and the original Macbook Air. Apple has time and again released a product that was maybe too far ahead of it's time that people laughed at originally, then couldn't live with out.

Apples to Beehives here.

The Air was the first of its kind, a "netbook" in size with a fast CPU (crippled by horrible IO issues from the physically tiny HDD). The Air line still exists and is simply neglected now. The rMB is simply the mantra that we somehow need impossibly thin devices that sacrifice in too many areas, this is not a product we just don't get .. it's a product that was already fulfilled by the Air line, IF it had the proper updates it deserved (retina screen, new CPU options).


Siri, Apple Pay, Apple Watch, New Apple TV, and Apple Music all count for nothing?

Oh wait, sorry, I forgot which website I was on.

Apple Music.... are you, being serious?

#1 Siri was not Apple's product, they simply bought it from another developer and baked it in (and then let it grow moldy outside of a few minor improvements), they are far outpaced by their rivals now.

#2 Apple Pay is a great innovation in payments, cannot disagree there.

#3 The Apple Watch is .. well .. it's OK (I own one), notifications on the wrist are nice but there is nothing special the watch does that competitors in Google's space don't do just as well, and did it before them.

#4 The New Apple TV is just OK. I bought into it, but honestly my Roku fit the bill just as well and did it cheaper.

Again, Apple music has been a joke. Plenty of options existed before it and are still leaps and bounds better.

One thing you did miss though and was mentioned here is the tight integration with hardware and software on iOS platforms. That is something they should brag about, no doubt at all.
 
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The bottom line as I see it, is that apple has been active

Active, but not focused on their core values. It's a 'new' Apple, serving a somewhat new market, and changing the way it's doing so. That's not all bad, as profits have been stellar at the moment. But, the loss of core values is eventually going to catch up with them, and that new market are much more fickle consumers. Once all the pros and creativity heads elsewhere (when there is an elsewhere to head, which there eventually will be if Apple's no longer serving them), and Apple's just a stuff-maker, the magic will be gone.
 
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No kidding! This was one of the better moves Apple made, as it helped overcome anti-Apple bias, which existed at about every retailer who carried their products and did a horrible job (aside from small independent shops supporting their stuff).

What they've done in the past 5 years, is as I suppose should be expected, manage their supply chain and ride the back of the success generated during the said period. When people said Apple was doomed shortly after Jobs died, I thought they were nuts (and they were, because they pointed at the wrong reasons). Certainly, I thought, Jobs ideology ran through Apple, and he'd have picked a good successor.

But, i think I was wrong. It seems more like... when dad's gone, the spoiled kids start to rebel and quickly forget everything they've been taught, and the new dad isn't anything much like the old one. He's a manager like no other, but not a visionary like Jobs, and seems to have other things on his mind than keeping Apple in check with it's previous values.

This is very sad to see for an Apple evangelist of over 30 years. :(

You people will see whatever you want to see.
Literally Apple could do anything and you'd rearrange the evidence so it fits the 'Apple is doomed' mentality.
 
That is insignificant compared to what Apple did 2001-2011. ... Sure Apple has released/updated products, but they are nothing compared to their old products, and in some cases, even worse than competitors.

And, that's just the hardware, which IMO, is what Apple's still doing the best at. The bigger issue for me is the software, which has become embarrassing compared to where they were, and their shift to following fashion and stupid marketing tactics over user experience being job #1.

They've become pretty much any other tech industry player, now, it's just that they're starting at the top of the hill.
 
ATV4, Apple Watch, Mac Pro, MacBook, 64-bit mobile CPU, Swift, iPad Pro w/ Apple Pencil and Smart Keyboard, Apple Pay, CarPlay, complete iOS makeover, and some foundational technologies such as HomeKit and HealthKit that could be the basis for a transformative experience down the road... just to name a few.

If you think that list compares to what they achieved between 2001-2010 (one entirely new product line after another that completely disrupted the market), that's some extreme reaching.

Apple's newest products now seem to come with the caveat that "someday these will be interesting or useful, we promise!". Whereas in the Steve era, his true magic was simply convincing the public that every new product was already transformative. That's the key difference.
 
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Apple's newest products now seem to come with the caveat that "someday these will be interesting or useful, we promise!". Whereas in the Steve era, his true magic was simply convincing the public that every new product was already transformative. That's the key difference.

Very good point. They utilized third party apps but it was never "Lets see what others do with it first".

I remember HTC releasing the first phone with a front facing camera, but literally had NOTHING that used it.
 
You people will see whatever you want to see.
Literally Apple could do anything and you'd rearrange the evidence so it fits the 'Apple is doomed' mentality.

I've spent the last 30 years working in the industry, and up until the last few, defended Apple against all the false and silly 'Apple is doomed' mantra, even in the mid-90s when pretty much everyone but me thought they were.

The reason I've now changed my story is that Apple has fundamentally changed. Some of that was inevitable, as it's VERY hard to grow as quickly as Apple has and keep everything in check. But, when what made Apple successful is gone (no, I'm not talking about Jobs), all they can do is re-discover what that was, or try to prolong the collapse.
 
Apples to Beehives here.

The Air was the first of its kind, a "netbook" in size with a fast CPU (crippled by horrible IO issues from the physically tiny HDD). The Air line still exists and is simply neglected now. The rMB is simply the mantra that we somehow need impossibly thin devices that sacrifice in too many areas, this is not a product we just don't get .. it's a product that was already fulfilled by the Air line, IF it had the proper updates it deserved (retina screen, new CPU options).




Apple Music.... are you, being serious?

#1 Siri was not Apple's product, they simply bought it from another developer and baked it in (and then let it grow moldy outside of a few minor improvements), they are far outpaced by their rivals now.

#2 Apple Pay is a great innovation in payments, cannot disagree there.

#3 The Apple Watch is .. well .. it's OK (I own one), notifications on the wrist are nice but there is nothing special the watch does that competitors in Google's space don't do just as well, and did it before them.

#4 The New Apple TV is just OK. I bought into it, but honestly my Roku fit the bill just as well and did it cheaper.

Again, Apple music has been a joke. Plenty of options existed before it and are still leaps and bounds better.

One thing you did miss though and was mentioned here is the tight integration with hardware and software on iOS platforms. That is something they should brag about, no doubt at all.

They're all around a year old, though. It'll be easier to judge 2011-2021 against 2001-2011 when we're in 2021.

The second-gen iPhone was 'half the price. Twice as fast' - the second gen Watch hasn't even launched yet!

Personally I tried Apple Music and didn't subscribe when it launched. I tried it again more recently and loved it - again rumoured improvements coming.

If we went to 2006 and looked at what Apple had done: turned around their Mac lineup and introduced, and evolved iPod.

Also, as Apple was growing from practically nothing, going from no retail stores to retail stores isn't something you can do again, so innovation at this point can never be repeated.

If you value Apple pre-Steve's return at 0, and Steve Jobs turned it into a 1, was Tim Cook supposed to take over and grow it to a 2? Not even Steve could have done that!
 
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Firing Scott Forstall was a big mistake

Look at the disaster that are el crapitan and os 9

Like Steve he was a perfectionist

Why Cook chose ive run out of ideas over scott I will never know

Ive's best design ideas are rip offs from other companies ; bang & olufsen & braun , he's vastly over rated imo
 
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