Today's Announcements: The Untold Story

[Jaymes]

This Is Why

Apple should have never given out the iPhone rebates. Now every time they decide to charge for something, change the price on something, or in some way try to make an improvement in an existing product to generate new sales, people who already own said product are going to whine and cry in hopes that Apple caves and gives them something for free. Pathetic.

Apple never said they'd have Mail or GPS support on the iPod Touch. The expectation that they would somehow just dole out Mail and GPS support for free after awhile is naive. Go price a GPS unit someplace, and then start crying about $20. If anything, you're getting a steal. Apple could have charged $20 per app, and it still would have been a bargain as compared to other software titles out there.

If I go buy a Nintendo DS, do I expect Nintendo to give me free copies of every in-house game they develop? Somehow, I think Nintendo isn't going to do that.

All this extra software is optional. If you don't want to pay the $20, then no one is forcing you to do so! Get a grip. I am so tired of people thinking software should be free all the time. Sure, if someone wants to release something open source, then it's free. Obviously, Apple chose not to do that, so you need to pay a license fee!

And let's be clear about one thing as well. This is not a software upgrade/update/etc, this is additional software. Your iPod touch will function fine with or without this software! I agree that patches/update should be free, but this is no such thing.

Sheesh - next you know people will be lining up in front of Apple looking for government cheese and butter.

 

[robanga]

Apple should have never given out the iPhone rebates. Now every time they decide to charge for something, change the price on something, or in some way try to make an improvement in an existing product to generate new sales, people who already own said product are going to whine and cry in hopes that Apple caves and gives them something for free. QUOTE]

Have to say that I agree with you. These rather endless threads about Apple, Micorsoft, whomever disregarding "loyal" customers just because they bring out better things, less expensive is just silly. For the life of my I can not understand the argument. I have an open mind to it, but can never even come close to empathy on the thing.

 

[pubius]

Locate me tool - Great feature, but it would have been a lot helpful if it were on my iPhone like a month ago! I spent christmas in New York, and I got totally lost at one point in the upper east side, and it took me forever to find out where I was... So I had to improvise... (Long story).

yeah... in these times just remember to kick it old school. forever? uh, new york is a grid based system with numbered streets. higher numbers = north, lower numbers = south. so one block north or south would have told you roughly where you are (y axis) and the upper east side is (at it's largest point) is only 9 blocks wide (x axis). plus there are 5 million people in manhattan to ask (you know, on the street, personable style). any one of those ways should have been an easy fix. again, forever?

didn't mean to come down on you. but come on. these gps systems are nice, but let's remember not to totally rely on them.

 

[EagerDragon]

Not that anyone here really reads other peoples posts, so my expectations of eloquent discussion about this topic are non-existent - but there is a great reason why the $25 (Aus) ($20 US) is a rip off -

when my mates bought the touch, like me, they were sure that in time AT LEAST mail would be a simple software upgrade. This may be a naive view - but did anyone (a link to a post would be nice) predict that Apple would use a touch upgrade as a money making scheme?

hmmm... I will go back to READING what others think of themselves - oh and others.

Part 1 of your assumption (mail will be added later) was correct, part 2 was also correct. However it is free for new purchases. Yes a little naive but very close.

Apple does not like to lower prices, Apple prefers to give you more for the same price or to split the difference ($500 enhancement and raise price by 250). Take a look at the Mac Pro as an example of that.

Prediction is the same as tossing a coin and calling it. The only way you will be correct fairly consistently is if you have insider information.

Buy items that meet your needs today and for the next year, always expect to be left behind the curve of new products, expect new products will give you more for the same amount or a little more and you will be happy with Apple. Never buy something that does not meet your needs in the hope that changes in the future.

 

[jashic]

"Never buy something that does not meet your needs in the hope that changes in the future. "

so true.

To all others who bought a tough but are disappointed in Apple, there is always ebay where you can sell your device and go buy the MS Zune at discount.

we can scream and rant all we want. In the end, $20 is what they are charging. If it was unreasonable, we wouldn't upgrade. Supply and demand. As long as there are people out there that disagree with the whiners, the whiners can sit back and not upgrade and continue whining while those who buy will enjoy their new apps.

The laws of supply and demand are very basic.

 

[DisturbedLen]

Google Maps Location

I don't think Google Maps on the iPhione is the same as on other phones...

I can't figure out how to get the blue location dot on the iPhone. I can get the circle location, but in order to get the Blue Dot to estimate your location, Google Help says to press "0" on your keypad. Well, there is not a keypad available. If you've ever used Google Maps on another phone, you'll know what I mean.

This "throbbing" dot is supposed to "move" with you as you drive. (http://www.google.com/mobile/gmm/mylocation/index.html) I have not seen that. The circle is stationary and I must press the location icon to refresh my location.

On a blackberry, your location is in the circle. Someplace in the circle (usually on the road) there is a throbbing blue dot that estimates your location. As you drive, both the circle and the blue dot updates. It does not update every second like GPS, it's more like every few minutes. It is really cool functionality and I was looking forward to seeing it on the iphone.

 

[guzhogi]

If you bought a Mac on Oct 20, you got Tiger. If you bought one on Oct 30, you got Leopard.

I don't think the line between getting things too early and then having to pay for the new features and getting the features for free will never be totally clear. No one will be able to agree on it. Both sides should play fair though. The company should respect the early adopters since they tend to be the most loyal and can be the guinea pigs so they shouldn't reduce the price by so much so soon. For the consumer, just realize that things progress & change. No stopping it. Just need to adapt and see if you can make it change for the better.

To me the irritating thing Apple did was not include the Apps on the Touch in the first place. They should have. But now people should know the risk of being early adopters. I complained about the lack of iPhone apps when I bought my Touch back in Sept - I saw it as intentionally crippling a device for no good reason(never bought the iPhone sales argument - if you want a PHONE you are going to buy a PHONE). Now that Apple is offering me what I wanted for a pittance(and no whining about "it may be nothing to you!" If you have $400 to spend on a frivolous toy, $20 isn't going to keep food off of your table), I bought it as fast as I could get to a computer. I think it seems slightly unfair that new Touch owners get it free, but if I look at it as a price break(Touch price reduced from $400 to $380 4 months after its release), it doesn't really seem unfair any more.

Apple should have never given out the iPhone rebates. Now every time they decide to charge for something, change the price on something, or in some way try to make an improvement in an existing product to generate new sales, people who already own said product are going to whine and cry in hopes that Apple caves and gives them something for free. Pathetic.

Apple never said they'd have Mail or GPS support on the iPod Touch. The expectation that they would somehow just dole out Mail and GPS support for free after awhile is naive. Go price a GPS unit someplace, and then start crying about $20. If anything, you're getting a steal. Apple could have charged $20 per app, and it still would have been a bargain as compared to other software titles out there.

If I go buy a Nintendo DS, do I expect Nintendo to give me free copies of every in-house game they develop? Somehow, I think Nintendo isn't going to do that.

All this extra software is optional. If you don't want to pay the $20, then no one is forcing you to do so! Get a grip. I am so tired of people thinking software should be free all the time. Sure, if someone wants to release something open source, then it's free. Obviously, Apple chose not to do that, so you need to pay a license fee!

And let's be clear about one thing as well. This is not a software upgrade/update/etc, this is additional software. Your iPod touch will function fine with or without this software! I agree that patches/update should be free, but this is no such thing.

Sheesh - next you know people will be lining up in front of Apple looking for government cheese and butter.

I agree, these programs should've been available on the Ipod Touch in the 1st place. Architecturally, it's the same thing as an iPhone minus the phone hardware. Just because you wouldn't use it doesn't mean everyone else won't. If you don't want it, don't use the features. Since these apps are the same on both devices, it's only fair that both should've gotten the apps @ the same time. Same thing with the 802.11n enabler. Apple should've just included the functionality from the beginning, not after you release them. Apps/hardware that already existed should be totally there & functional from the get go. Anything new people should pay for. With the iPhone giving Apple payment every month, I can see the price on new software for that subsidized or something, but for software you don't even have to change, that's a little greedy IMO.

Also, for those that say that the iPod Touch is only an iPod which means it should only play music/videos, may I ask why? Just curious. Not meaning to flame anyone, I just want to know. And why can't other people use it as a PDA or something? Why can't you just be live and let live and let other people use it the way they want w/o complaining about it? And to those people, don't complain if you change it and a new firmware update comes out & wrecks it. You know what, it happens. Just let Apple and whoever makes the broken software know that it doesn't work and hope they fix it. If not, maybe learn how to program and make your own programs. Apple's delivering an SDK next month so it's possible.

 

[EagerDragon]

I hate to tell you this

I have a Palm device and Google Maps works great and uses the GPS in the phone and I paid zero for it. Apple added the enhancement of WIFI towers to make it more accurate in locations close to a WIFI hot spot. By itself it may not be worth 20, but there are more features / apps there to bring the value up.

For those complaining, have you ever purchase apps like email and games for your previous smart phones? You may have noticed that a lot of those apps were 6 to 25 dollars EACH and there were some people selling bundles with some very weak applications to raise the value of the purchase.

20 is dirt cheap for so many good apps, guys.

 

[xDANx]

The comments by people who expect us all to be modern day mindless consumers are mis-guided and unreasonable. To say "you get exactly what you paid for at the time of sale" is to completely miss the point.

As a group of technically minded people, we are interested in using our technology and pushing it as far as possible (without breaking it, hopefully). We don't like to see our gadgets artificially restricted, and we have known all along that there was no technical reason that Mail and Notes (in particular) could not be on the iPod touch.

We jail break, chip and otherwise hack our gadgets because that is just what we do, and we always will. Even if the iPod touch had these apps from the start, jail break would still exist because we want to push it further still.

I think the reason that many people are dismayed by the $20 upgrade ($25 in the UK) is that this is a bit sneaky and a bit Microsoft-ish. Microsoft are in the business of releasing important software upgrades and leaving old versions to fester in the hope that you spend more cash. Apple seem to be doing more of that too.

Just to push the thought a bit further, in my grandparents' day everything that you bought was an opportunity to 'hack' and modify. Anything that broke was invariably repaired in a 'hackerish' manner, and anything that could be improved upon almost certainly was. That's just the way life is.

Let's hope the SDK rocks. If Apple get that right, it'll change everything.

that's the most sensible thing anyone's written about the ipod touch $20 debacle so far...!

 

[Bosunsfate]

I agree. Companies should give away free updates for bug fixes and times they messed up. For upgrades that add new features, people should pay for it. I find a lot of things like this aren't totally black or totally white, but some shade of gray. I don't think everyone will have the same opinion on this so can we just agree to disagree & get over it?

Yea, my point was that there is a law that requires a public company to charge for upgrades.

How much they charge is another question. As for debating that, I'm not really interested.

 

[guzhogi]

that's the most sensible thing anyone's written about the ipod touch $20 debacle so far...!

I concur. It does seem like Apple's been screwing people over so they can charge more for something. Kinda sad.

As for what Adrian said about in our grandparents' day, lots of things were hackable. My Grandfather used to work at Zenith and had a laboratory in his basement at home. He made his own electronic organ and cement mixer and stuff. It was awesome. If he were still alive today, I'm sure he would've gotten into computers. In the school district I work for, we have this repair guy who fixes printers, overhead projectors and pretty much anything electric. His repairs are very McGyver-ish. It's awesome. I wish I had his skills.

 

[Stampyhead]

No, I'll continue buying products for the potential of what I can do with them. If this is Apple's new strategy, that just means I won't be buying from them.

Whew, that's a relief. One less whiner to have to deal with in these threads.

 

[hiptobesquare]

Understandable, not end-of-world, but bad form.

I had been waiting to see the keynote for news on this topic.

I have an ATT phone that I bought cheap. I bought ATT so that I would be able to upgrade to an iPhone later on, if I want, without contract problems.

But I am also considering an iPod Touch, and keeping my little samsung phone separately. I haven't yet decided.

I don't think the negatives here are out of line. I think the 20$ is a bad move.

I can see an argument for paying for the software, and I can understand some of the issues for software licensing, and I know SOX is causing all kinds of trouble for all kinds of companies.

But I think the big thing is this: Perceived insult.

A bunch of people bought a new product from Apple, and helped make Apple's quarterly reports favorable, and supported a new, revolutionary product.

Now, they are retroactively being charged for something that is NOT being charged for new buyers as of today, if they buy a new item with the software installed. The price of the new iPT has not gone up correspondingly. (and the profit margin on that device is likely enough for Apple to provide this software update for free. The development costs of these apps are already on the amortization schedule, and can be covered by Apple's profit margins.)

It isn't a fair application. It is apple's prerogative to be unfair, and to have their reasons for it. But people have a right to remember Apple being unfair the next time apple wants people to early-adopt one of their new products. Like MacBook Air, for instance. If it can't be a free update (which the iPhone is getting with 1.1.3) then it would almost have been better if the iPT price went up by the same $20, even if it drops again in the future.

It is a perception of lack of any form of gratitude or grace by only charging 20$ from people who did step up and support apple in the past.

20$ is not the end of the world. A couple of grocery store meals instead of restaurants could easily cover it. It is the perception of lack of manners that seems to tick people off.

This isn't a new argument, anyway. People have been bemoaning the lack of these apps since day one. That is one of the big reasons I have yet to buy either an iPhone or an iPodTouch.

I don't like Apple's confiscatory plan arrangement along with paying full price for a phone (when others are subsidized, and more cheaply, by the phone plan), nor do I like their closed hand dealings with only offering their product with one wireless vendor. I don't like it, but the iPhone might be worth living with it.

I don't like the handicaps of the iPhone in the memory department, inferior cellular data speed (no 3G yet), and no stereo bluetooth on a phone that CLEARLY is also a music player, and marketed as "everything in one." Everything in one, except that it doesn't do things that several other phones do, in terms of media devices, something that the iPhone should excel at.

I haven't liked that the iPodTouch is just as capable a device (and better looking, IMHO, than the iphone) for what it does, and has been handicapped by Apple with fewer apps, which this update addresses. The question is, does the iPT's memory capacity offset the connectivity outside of wifi areas. Now that iPT does come with those apps built into the price, it is that much more attractive. But it still requires me to carry, manage, and not lose another device, a cell phone.

Apple is improving it. iPT deserves this update. The iPhone deserves the hardware update that is rumored to be coming. But I hope Apple doesn't spoil it's public good will. After all, people complain about things they care about. They don't bother complaining about things they don't care about. A lot of Apple complaints is almost an underlying complement, because people care enough about Apple products to want them to be as good as possible.

If they continue to 'appear' to be slapping their early adopters, they bite the hand that feeds them.

And they shouldn't have randy newman perform like that again, either. Apple doesn't want that kind of political divisiveness. People of all political stripes like Apple products, and it is counterproductive to put half of them off via the political diatribe of the other side. There are plenty of other venues for political discussion.

 

[apple-science]

All companies "take advantage" of early adopters by charging more initially than later. But they are not forcing the early adopters to buy. Why do early adopters pay more? Because they want the latest fad/toy/gadget/gizmo/device and are willing to pay for it. The MacBook Air will come down in price or will have more capabilities in the next 6-9 months. Apple is only doing what profitable companies do all the time - provide compelling products that people want. People have as much right to whine as Apple has to charge for something it produces.

If $20 is too much, don't pay. You actually have a choice. Whereas new buyers of the Touch are, in essence, forced to buy the apps rather than take a $20 discount.

Entitlement is not a way to win an argument.

 

[diamond.g]

Has anyone noticed that the 1.1.3 update with and without extra apps are the same size? I am hearing that the apps are on all the iPT's but is only visible with an updated plist file. Can anyone confirm or deny?

 

[hiptobesquare]

All companies "take advantage" of early adopters by charging more initially than later. But they are not forcing the early adopters to buy. Why do early adopters pay more? Because they want the latest fad/toy/gadget/gizmo/device and are willing to pay for it. The MacBook Air will come down in price or will have more capabilities in the next 6-9 months. Apple is only doing what profitable companies do all the time - provide compelling products that people want. People have as much right to whine as Apple has to charge for something it produces.

If $20 is too much, don't pay. You actually have a choice. Whereas new buyers of the Touch are, in essence, forced to buy the apps rather than take a $20 discount.

Entitlement is not a way to win an argument.

This isn't quite the same as that, although similar. It certainly is not an entitlement. It is however a precedent.

Most iPod software updates that are compatible with the hardware have previously been free. Now it is not free, unless you buy a new iPod Touch, in which it is the same price as it has always been, making the software update, essentially free for those who have yet to buy.

I said, it is apple's prerogative to charge what ever they want. But it is their loyal fan base to lose. The bad-will effect may lose more future revenue than this little 20$ fee that only applies to people who have already bought iPod Touches. This one particularly will not apply to anyone else into the future.

Apple can charge what they want, people can choose whether or not to upgrade or not. You are perfectly correct.

But good will, brand loyalty, and other non-tangibles are at play. And threatening that with retroactive-only charges, is not always worth poisoning that well just for the small revenue right now from a small cadre of people who bought an expensive, cool toy early.

 

[aplCORnuthnMOR]

while i agree that we are not entitled to these apps, the lack of an email client on the original release was a determining factor in not purchasing an iPod touch, for me. still waiting on a chat client. iChat lite perhaps? widgets alone are worth $20 to me.

what irks me more than this software is that when you buy a new mac, you get software that is usually newer than your existing machines. therefore, even though you have the software in your possession, you have to purchase it again to use the same version on all of your machines. I know you can copy over the app and relevant files to your other machine, but even adobe allows you to use the software on multiple machines as long as you don't use them simultaneously.

 

[pocketrockets]

Ok here's the thing that bugs me the most, and I'm surprised no one has said this yet:

I would 100% rather have Apple make EVERY ipod touch user pay the $20 for the upgrade if they decide to, even those who buy it in the future, UNTIL they come out with the new model (~Sept 2008). That would make much more sense.

 

[Stu-Duncan]

Some real rubbish written on this

I bought an ipod Touch in September and I love it. Like most people, I could see that Apple had "de-selected" some iPhone apps from the Touch (presumably to make the iPhone look a better buy). I expected that Apple would let us obtain some or all of the missing apps at some point. So I was thrilled to be able to buy them last night.

I can't get upset at Apple charging $20 or £12.99 for them, they are well worth the cost. This expectation that everything should be free is ridiculous. Download and try them - Google Maps with integration into Address book is simply stunning and super fast. Mail - just what I wanted. And notes.

When I bought my Touch, I had no promise that I would get the extra apps, and even though I guessed they would become available, I had no idea when. Paying $20 now is a lot better than waiting another 6 months and getting them free.

 

[entspeak]

If I'd received it...

If I purchased an iPod Touch within the 14 days allowed for return, I'd take it back or ask for the discount as a credit towards purchase of the upgrade software.

As it is, I got mine for X-mas, so I'm in no position to complain. $20 bucks is worth it for me. The fact that they've included a way to locate me via wi-fi for the maps is also a big plus.

I see this platform really taking off for a lot of things... PocketQuicken for iPhone/iPod Touch would be great.

 

[pmoeser]

I bought my iPod form Germany and I live in Romania I have no option to buy that update. In Apple's vision some customers are more customers than others. Not to mention that "special" 20$ update issue. What a disgrace for all the customers what a shame!

I will make a complaint to European Union for unfair commercial practices for that 20$ surcharge and for discrimination within EU economic space. Please contact the European Union board under Meglena Kuneva Commissioner.
For all the europeans please fill up the complaint against Apple.Inc

http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/index_en.htm

As a customer I have the right to be customer! Apple did not think of that.

You need to have a long hard think about it before doing this.

Apple have every right to charge for the software upgrade.

Far more intelligent people than me have already laid out reasoned arguments in this post.

Your actions will do nothing other than increase the cost of Apple products for the rest of us. And waste the EUs time and resources.

 

[morespce54]

Maybe they could give all us iPod touch upgraders some free game credit when they finally get games

hey, maybe with the new apple-price-scheme, you will have to pay to be able to have the right to buy some games...
/sarcasm

 

[JGShort]

Straight from China

Probably not:
We have heard that all current iPod touch models already in the distribution channel without the new software have been immediately discounted by $20 to accommodate for the upgrade fee.

OK, I was probably stupid for receiving an Apple Gift Card from my folks for Christmas and then using it just before New Years for 2 IPod Touches (for me and my wife). Since I ordered them from the Online Store to be laser engraved and was even more stupid to sign up for the two-day delivery option over the holiday. However, as I tracked its delivery progress, I was able to watch it come straight to me from China via Alaska, it actually took 4 days to be delivered to me. The point here is that if you order online after the changeover date, your iPod Touch will probably come to you straight from China with all the latest stuff.

Yes, I am paying the extra $20 for the new software. I had some complication because the iPod would not update until I had updated iTunes to 7.6 first, then I needed restore the IPod, which took a long time. But it did finally finish loading and I think I am happy with the new software (I have not completely tested it yet). I have some wifi hotspots about me, but I do not know the passwords for them. I need more practice with the touch keyboard, but I think it far the Palm Pilot stylus keyboard I had used before (ok, long ago). I wish the new Notes application had the ability to use text files like they had in the older iPod. Maybe that is coming.

Now, tonight, I will be ready to try upgrading the software on my wife's unit. I have already upgraded to iTunes 7.6 and downloaded the iPod 1.1.3 firmware, so I hope that it will be faster and smoother this time. It will also be interesting to see if the iPod software updater is smart enough to detect the two iPod Serial Numbers and charge me another $20 for hers (probably so).

We must always remember the risk of trying to live at the cutting edge of consumer technology. That is that no sooner do we pay extra money to enjoy the privilege of owning the latest stuff, then it becomes obsolete so much faster. Each person must decide how much this risk is worth. On the one hand, I do not really like spending more of my money in this way; on the other hand, in this case, $20 does not seem excessive to me.

Oh well, to each his or her own! So much for another posting of ranting and raving!

 

[carlostsr]

You need to have a long hard think about it before doing this.

Apple have every right to charge for the software upgrade.

Far more intelligent people than me have already laid out reasoned arguments in this post.

Your actions will do nothing other than increase the cost of Apple products for the rest of us. And waste the EUs time and resources.

Wrong ! You live a totally different reality over there Sir! Because of many complaints about Apple's pricing policies in EU the EU Commission acted and Apple from this year has implemented one price per song across Europe's iTunes Store. The second implementation it is on the way with forcing Apple to open one single iTunes Store Europa.
As a EU citizen I have the right to buy things from a German e-store without being questioned about sex, race, hair colour or address, and I cannot be refused in a e-store in France because I am from Romania.
Making impossible for a french person to buy songs from iTunes Store in Sweden is illegal within the Union. Within the Union we have no taxes no charges, no borders, no questions. It is my right to update my product if I want to, but Apple ignores a lot of countries from the EU like Lithuania, Letonia, Estonia, Poland , Czech R, Slovenia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Slovenia, providing e-stores just for the old members of the Union. This is a discriminatory policy and it will be charged by the EU Commission. Apple is guilty for surcharging people, unfair use of DRM and other unfair policies.

 

[Spades]

Whew, that's a relief. One less whiner to have to deal with in these threads.

At least somebody is happy about this situation.