Today's Announcements: The Untold Story

[tenneriffe]

Not that anyone here really reads other peoples posts, so my expectations of eloquent discussion about this topic are non-existent - but there is a great reason why the $25 (Aus) ($20 US) is a rip off -

when my mates bought the touch, like me, they were sure that in time AT LEAST mail would be a simple software upgrade. This may be a naive view - but did anyone (a link to a post would be nice) predict that Apple would use a touch upgrade as a money making scheme?

hmmm... I will go back to READING what others think of themselves - oh and others.

 

[gmanrique]

well sort of true but...

there are a couple of things. There were apps and also OS features. If there will be an SDK and new apps are developed, it makes sense that you would have to pay for those. The thing is that the 1.1.3 upgrade did not include some basic (OS level) functionality that is part of it, like customization of icons location, and even the webclips (a safari upgrade since we already had that app), or lyrics thing fort the iPod app. It seems he OS features are something that would be useful later on when 3rd party apps are introduced. So, if the OS had been upgraded properly and for free (it is a minor upgrade hence the 1.1.3), then this would be a little different. You would judge if the apps were worth the $20 or not (I still think that Apple should had given this apps for free but that is another story). But it just does not feel right, especially cleverly (meaning with greed) choosing the Dec 27 as the cut date for start the free upgrade.

I cannot believe this, this isn't an upgrade, it is applications you can add to the touch. Do you think for a second that the apps published with the SDK will be free? The iPod Touch is just an mp3 player just like the Nano or the Classic. You should feel fortunate that it is expandable and that there are developers working on new applications for the device.

Google wrote the application, why shouldn't they be compensated for their time and development the same as any other software developer.

Just be glad you do have a iTouch that is expandable. Apple could have launched the iTouch II and included these features in that and left existing users in the dust....

IMHO, these applications are being developed now for the iTouch because of the iPhone's existence. if it weren't for the iPhone, there would be no iTouch to begin with.

 

[guzhogi]

nearly but not quite. the product is a combination of hardware and software. the argument that the hardware was capable of supporting n is undermined by the fact that (a) the software wasn't and therefore the product wasn't, and (b) they never sold it as a n compatible product.

reality is that a lot of products could do a lot more stuff if the software changed - that's what new versions are for. i could list a load of features i'd like in OSX which could be implemented without changing the hardware. doesn't mean i'm entitled to them.

the whole of the software industry relies on the fact that you write it once and then milk it. if an app is ported to the mac from the PC do you expect a discount because they had to do less work for the mac version?

why should the ipod be any different?

You're right. That's what I hate about capitalism. It makes people greedy. I'd like to know what it would be like if we had more of a socialism/meritocracy system. People get what they need to survive while people who work harder get rewarded for it. No freeloaders. People only get paid for by what they deserve. I personally don't think it's fair that CEOs get millions of dollars while the janitors don't even make $20,000 a year.

Good! I say make it $50 for whiners. All of you always want everything for free. If you can't afford it, or think it's unfair, BUY SOMETHING ELSE or don't buy anything at all.

I agree, people DO have a choice of whether to buy something or not. Whining won't solve anything. If you don't like it, do something about instead of just whining. On the other hand, people shouldn't be like how you are, being apathetic and being like "Oh, well. Everything's **** and nothing I can do about it." If you just sit on your hands and not buy anything, these companies probably will continue making **** products and you can get in trouble for not having a certain item/feature. I'll admit, I don't know how to make companies to do exactly what you want 100% of the time, but if you're truly concerned enough, do something about it. Just saying "That's life" and not buying isn't gonna cut it.

 

[weezer160]

I think the upgrade should be free, because I've already paid 400$ for a top of the line product and I don't see why I should pay more to get something another equally expensive product gets for free.

I guess that's the price of adopting early on a 1st gen product. Look at me: my 4 GB ram kit now costs $80 than when I bought it. I can't bitch.

 

[sellitman]

I think the upgrade should be free, because I've already paid 400$ for a top of the line product and I don't see why I should pay more to get something another equally expensive product gets for free.

Because your product's profit contribution stops at the sale. IPhone users who use att have a monthly contribution to Apple as long as they keep their service.

 

[Project]

I'm amazed that people expect this thing for free. A software update, yes. But 3 entirely new apps? LOL. Did Mac users get the new iLife with iWeb/Garageband respectively when they were launched? I am not counting the widgets.

Software costs money to develop. Do people believe that these things have no value because they are on a portable device? If so, why? And to the people saying that the iPhone got these for free, well that's not true. They were apps there from the beginning as part of the sale price and we continue to pay a premium to Apple each month.

If Apple were to give these for free (legal issues aside), it would be a nice gesture, not what was expected of them.

At least you get the opportunity to bring the Touch up to speed with the iPhone. Remember in the old days when you would need to buy a whole new iPod to get search and game functionality?

 

[guzhogi]

tivoboy, thank you for being the first person to finally inform people on this thread of why Apple had to charge for the upgrade. I can understand why people would not be familiar with this SEC rule.

But it is really important for users to understand that a public software company cannot give away free upgrades.

I have been trying to figure out why they thought the TV upgrade did not fall under SOX.

I agree. Companies should give away free updates for bug fixes and times they messed up. For upgrades that add new features, people should pay for it. I find a lot of things like this aren't totally black or totally white, but some shade of gray. I don't think everyone will have the same opinion on this so can we just agree to disagree & get over it?

 

[Tyrannosaurs]

You know, I am shocked at the people who think that Apple is okay for charging $20 for an upgrade that should have been there in the first place.

There is NO other reason for this other than the fact that Apple is being greedy. These features should have been available in the first place, for free.

Can someone explain why they "should" have been there?

I've never bought an MP3 player with the view that it should have a stocks app. Or maps. Or notes. If I had I'd have been massively dissappointed with my 3rd gen iPod and equally disappointed with my wife's new nano.

The iPod Touch was billed, launched and advertised as an iPod, not a cut down iPhone and as as an iPod it kicks ass, with or without 1.1.3.

Where did the idea that certain non-iPod related features "should" be part of it's feature set come from?

I think people are confusing what is possible with what should happen.

 

[gmanrique]

that sounds right...

specially since the keynote usually take the full 2 hours. So it seems suspicious they announced Mac Pro upgrades a week before to make the keynote shorter, and then Boom, it was 25 minutes shorter than usual.

BTW, I don't believe the theory of 'stealing some thunder from CES'.

I think they pulled something from the keynote at the last minute

Finishing with Randy Newman!?! Come on...

I bet the record and /or movie studios pulled the pin on the pan European iTunes store or worldwide movie rentals at the last minute

Probably due to Fox and the combined iTunes/DVD

Apple are the whipping boy of the consumers who are still getting screwed by the demands of the out of touch big studios

 

[BigHat]

If it does not, it will be 20 bucks cheaper, so you can then pay for the upgrade on iTunes and net out the same.

The rest of this post is general and not directed at aznkid25 in particular...

It amazes me how many people in various threads are hammering apple for charging for this upgrade. Can someone show me where the iPod Touch marketing materials EVER said this was an upgradeable general purpose computing device?

People are so unbelievably unreasonable these days.


t

Because they're morons and/or cheapskates that have nothing better to do than sift through tons of great news and innovative products in search of some microscopic problem or sub-optimal decision.
No question in my mind, these same people would be b*tching that Apple should have offered a low cost ($20?) upgrade for their iPod Touch if Jobs hadn't announced the opportunity. It's not the issue at hand, it's their NEED to whine about something. I wish they'd all go buy a Zune and a Vista based PC and go torture Gates.

 

[rd261]

For those saying that ipod touch users are not paying what iphone users are paying:
True Im not paying 99 bucks to get a plan that I can easily get much cheaper from another company, that seems retarded to me but everyone has a different opinion. True Im not paying 400 bucks for the phone, but Im paying 300 for the ipod touch.
For those saying that ipod touch users do not need mail, maps, or notes:
Well technically thats true, we dont need them. But if we look at it from that perspective then we could easily say that iphone users dont need them either.

The bottom line is, we are not complaining about the 20 bucks, we are complaining because new buyers are getting the applications for free. We paid the same amount of money for the ipod, and it is the exact same product. There were no physical upgrades made to the product (so dont compare the ipod with a computer). They are basically charging the 20 bucks just because they want to screw up early buyers. Most of you saying its fair are saying so because you probably have the iphone; well how would you react if they had done the same to the iphone. I mean enough of you complained when they dropped the price after less than 2 months.

 

[Tyrannosaurs]

No, I'll continue buying products for the potential of what I can do with them. If this is Apple's new strategy, that just means I won't be buying from them.

fair enough.

i think what's gauled a lot of people is that this has kind of come out of the blue (the 802.11n upgrade aside). in future i won't say i won't buy apple products, i'll just know a little better precisely what i'm buying.

as is i bought an iPod touch, loved it, and don't resent the upgrade (which incidentally i have bought) because buying the touch at the time i bought it, with the functionality it had, for the price i payed was a good deal as far as i was concerned.

if people are going to get bent out of shape about the fact that someone some time later got a better deal they should never buy anything involving technology. everyone who has ever bought a digital camera will have found the guy who bought it 6 months later got a better deal or a better product. the fact it's software is neither here nor there - it's a product, the component parts are irrelevant.

 

[killmoms]

Most of you saying its fair are saying so because you probably have the iphone; well how would you react if they had done the same to the iphone. I mean enough of you complained when they dropped the price after less than 2 months.

They already ARE doing the same with the iPhone. They're getting money (to the tune of $240 by all reasonable guesses) over 2 years from AT&T that we pay. They're accounting for our purchase price over two years. There's our "subscription" to Apple for new software updates. Have we gotten 6 software updates with new features in the time the iPhone has been out? Nope. So we're already paying more than iPod touch owners for our software updates.

And we're fine with that.

Stop bitching.

(Some of us were also fine with the price cut. Such is the price of being an early adopter. The iPhone was worth it to me at launch at its price, so I bought it.)

 

[southernpaws]

why not have live gps?

Just saw a GPS device for the first time. (I live in the middle of nowhere in the country of Hungary.) My mother-in-law has one.

She paid for the ipod touch looking device, and it plays music, shows photos, has live GPS that even shows her street (in the middle of nowhere) and no monthly charges.

This is cool as can be. Its like the ipod touch (you touch and scroll the map with your finger, etc.), but the ipod touch doesnt have live GPS

Anyone, seriously, know why? Is this something to far fetched for apple.
I mean I live in the middle of nowhere and this technology exist...so is it a political one. (there ties with ATT and google) or whats up?

Someone that knows about this (probably most of you) please enlighten me.

Peace

dAlen

not sure if anybody has answered this yet. Doesn't having live gps (like in an actual gps device) require hardware (a gps chip) that is not in the ipod touch, nor in the iphone? that would make it far-fetched. and, while the price of gps chips are probably dropping, it's probably not yet low enough to make it cost efficient. They certainly weren't low enough to include when these products were debuted.

 

[Rot'nApple]

Why does everybody assume that $20 is fair??? I bought my iPod touch because I am on a college campus and can't afford the data plan the iPhone requires. Why does Apple consider my product differently? $20 means a lot to me. Not to mention that this iPod touch thing keeps screwing me over. No apps? $20 upgrade for capability it should have had from the beginning? Apple is ubiquitous in the academic environment, but they just refuse to show me any love. If only Apple had heard of Google's mantra - don't be evil!

To put it succinctly - why is the iPod touch being treated like a bastard sibling of the iPhone instead of the brother it really is??

Reading your post, I just had to laugh. It seems so typical of a lot of young people in America today. It also brought back so many memories of my college days and memories of attitudes and positions I once took, where when I look upon them today, makes me quiver.

It's been 20 years since I have been out of college, but I remember when certain calculators for math or science courses were required. Have things changed in today's college enviroment that an iPod touch is required matriculation for today's universities? What of the students who can't afford one, do they have to drop out of school, change majors or change to universities not requiring an iPod of any kind?

I love the whole, I'm too impoverished for an iPhone/AT&T plan, but I am affluent enough for an iPod Touch but then complain about Apple's remunerative iPod touch software update.

Also, by chance, are you from Missouri? You know it has the motto as the "Show Me" state. I was curious when I read in your post, "Apple is ubiquitous in the academic environment, but they just refuse to show me any love." rather than "Apple refuses to show all iPod Touch owners any love." Why narrow it down to just "you" as if you are the only one entitled. Stating it that way can mislead one to define you as a self righteous, selfish person. You don't want that misrepresentation do you?

And if by "$20 means a lot to me." but you are fortunate enough to have parents who are financially able and willing to pay the high cost of college, then, really, what is twenty bucks in todays terms relating to most, but not all, college students in their late teens and early twenties? Buying less than half a tank of gas to cruise around town? Going to the movies or dinner with a date for one evening? Going to a local club for dancing and drinking? Saving money for "Spring Break"?

Or if by "$20 means a lot to me." and you are working two or three jobs to make ends meet for tuition and/or room and board, while admirable to pay your own way, kind of foolish to pay $300.00 or $400.00 for an electronic gadget, especially if it is not required during your tenure at your university where text books for the classes you are enrolled in and pen and paper for taking notes, writing reports, etc. are.

It doesn't sound like you need to be "shown the love" or worry about if Apple is aware of Google's mantra "don't be evil" but rather, well, if it has to be spelled out for you this late in the game, why bother...

Rather your rant seems like a typical young American who thinks they are "Owed Something". I was there once myself (starting to quiver in disbelief). Most, not all people, gradually get fixed of this notion once out in the Real World, where other priorities take more credence than worrying about having to pay for a software update. Over time, it did for me. Hopefully, over time, for you too.

 

[Tyrannosaurs]

The bottom line is, we are not complaining about the 20 bucks, we are complaining because new buyers are getting the applications for free. We paid the same amount of money for the ipod, and it is the exact same product. There were no physical upgrades made to the product (so dont compare the ipod with a computer). They are basically charging the 20 bucks just because they want to screw up early buyers. Most of you saying its fair are saying so because you probably have the iphone; well how would you react if they had done the same to the iphone. I mean enough of you complained when they dropped the price after less than 2 months.

do you genuinely think that apple sit around and go "let's screw the early adopters?"

when i bought my macbook apple released OSX10.5 just 4 months later. should they have given me that free?

i suppose you could take the approach that microsoft took with vista - that the "early adopters" who bought PCs before vista came out and have XP are rewarded with not having to put up with vista... but personally i'd rather go for a company whose products get better over time not worse, even if that occassionally means the next guy gets a slightly better deal than i did.

 

[robanga]

It's all about revenue recognition and accounting rules. As others have noted iPhone and ATV have a subscription component to them (either iTunes, AT&T wireless or both)

This means they have to be accounted for in a different and less attractive way than iPods, iMacs etc.

In order to use the better accounting rules for iPods, Apple must charge for upgrades plain and simple and they must make it more than just a "token or nominal $ 2 thing" or they could be called on it.

Paying for significant software upgrades is a part of the future on all non-subscription based products.

 

[EagerDragon]

Regardless of what we think, Apple made a decision not to include those apps/features in the first version of the touch.

The idea was to deferenciate the products better and that is a decision that is up to Apple to make.

If they want to charge 20 dollars for old systems, that is their decision to make. If you don't like it, dont pay it, vote with your wallet, just like all consumers should always do. For example .... I want a true GPS with turn by turn directions in the iPhone and I will not get one until if has it, if it never does then I don't get it, simple.

BellyAchking solves nothing.

 

[Project]

The bottom line is, we are not complaining about the 20 bucks, we are complaining because new buyers are getting the applications for free. We paid the same amount of money for the ipod, and it is the exact same product.

This is absurd.

Are you saying that Apple are not allowed to add greater functionality to products as time goes by and maintain the same price point?

Put it this way. You go into the store 12 months ago and picked up Tiger. You pay $129 for it. 6 months later, Leopard is out. Should you get the Leopard features for free?

Software development costs money.

 

[Tyrannosaurs]

not sure if anybody has answered this yet. Doesn't having live gps (like in an actual gps device) require hardware (a gps chip) that is not in the ipod touch, nor in the iphone? that would make it far-fetched. and, while the price of gps chips are probably dropping, it's probably not yet low enough to make it cost efficient. They certainly weren't low enough to include when these products were debuted.

the iphone uses a combination of cell phone masts and public wi-fi hot spots to determine the location.

the ipod touch just uses the wi-fi hot spots...

 

[theBB]

The bottom line is, we are not complaining about the 20 bucks, we are complaining because new buyers are getting the applications for free. We paid the same amount of money for the ipod, and it is the exact same product. There were no physical upgrades made to the product (so dont compare the ipod with a computer). They are basically charging the 20 bucks just because they want to screw up early buyers. Most of you saying its fair are saying so because you probably have the iphone; well how would you react if they had done the same to the iphone. I mean enough of you complained when they dropped the price after less than 2 months.

Umm, Dell adjusts its prices up and down on hardware constantly, so do cell phone companies. As time passes electronics cost less. Some companies reduce prices and some keep the price the same, but offer additional features. In this case, Apple went with the latter approach. You are only entitled what you agree to during a transaction. Companies may offer more later as good will or for good PR, but that's up to them.

iPhone price drop was 33% after two months, touch price adjustment is 5% after about 3-4 months.

 

[robanga]

the iphone uses a combination of cell phone masts and public wi-fi hot spots to determine the location.

the ipod touch just uses the wi-fi hot spots...

It's also worth noting that a GPS chip which costs maybe $ 15-30 in large quanities requires its own little antenna, power leads, and real estate space on the motherboard. It also requires extra emissions testing etc.

If location can be accomplished only using the WIFI and Cellular radios and it's reasonably accurate, who needs GPS on a phone?

 

[EagerDragon]

Can anyone tell how updating of Touch is going to work?

Are there two versions let say 1.1.3. free and 1.1.3 Plus (with iPhone apps) at 20$... or there's only one 1.1.3 which you can get only by paying 20$...

This makes me uncomfortable - if any other update is gonna be paid - how about bug fixes? And what is more important how am I supposed to get these extra fitures if in my country there's no iTunes Store but iPod Touch is sold officially. How am I supposed to pay?

Just a guess on my part ...... Apple separates bug fixes from apps. Apps are sold by the iTunes store (just like they do with games), patches are downloaded and applied by the iTune store at no charge. However later patches may contain fixes to the apps that you have not payed for, as such the patch may or may not apply that set of patches since the apps are missing, but the rest of the patches will be applied.

 

[massib80]

Tyrannosaurs....
explain why: the mony that people spend on iTunes for buy music for their iPod Touch is not the same that the mony that people spend for movie rental in Apple TV.

Explain me why... the "feature" to add events to Calendar on iPod Touch wasn't charged at ALL

Uncle Steve just want to find a way to earn easy mony on iPod Touch users that doesn't pay him through the AT&T or Orange or O2 contracts.

Tell me what you want... but this 20$ are not in any way something "resonable" at least to ME!

RIP.

 

[jlbrown23]

Guys - you forget that the 20$ update is the problem only for those who already have the device.

Why new users of the same product (!!!!) should get it bundled and others not?
It's not iPod Touch 2 or something - but for some of us it should apply some extra charges. WHY?

If you bought a Mac on Oct 20, you got Tiger. If you bought one on Oct 30, you got Leopard.

To me the irritating thing Apple did was not include the Apps on the Touch in the first place. They should have. But now people should know the risk of being early adopters. I complained about the lack of iPhone apps when I bought my Touch back in Sept - I saw it as intentionally crippling a device for no good reason(never bought the iPhone sales argument - if you want a PHONE you are going to buy a PHONE). Now that Apple is offering me what I wanted for a pittance(and no whining about "it may be nothing to you!" If you have $400 to spend on a frivolous toy, $20 isn't going to keep food off of your table), I bought it as fast as I could get to a computer. I think it seems slightly unfair that new Touch owners get it free, but if I look at it as a price break(Touch price reduced from $400 to $380 4 months after its release), it doesn't really seem unfair any more.