jared_kipe said:
And you tell me, virgin birth happens all the time? Resurrections? Walking on water? Turning stones to bread?
Not too far off from "seeing stones", gold tablets, modern prophets.
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Tom Cruise Goes All Xenu Upside Matt Lauer's Head
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And you tell me, virgin birth happens all the time? Resurrections? Walking on water? Turning stones to bread?
Not too far off from "seeing stones", gold tablets, modern prophets.
Heheh...funny Amazon review of one of L Ron Hubbard's "Scientology" books.
24 of 31 people found the following review helpful:
If you buy into this so easily, don't breed!, May 29, 2005
Reviewer: Trying to help - See all my reviews
First, a little background: L Ron Hubbard is a failed science fiction writer . . . this should be your first hint that his "religion" is also a work of pure, nonsensical fiction. Secondly, any cult professing to give you enlightenment for a "small" fee should be indicted as a criminal organization. Thirdly, everyone knows the alien spirits came from 76 planets, not 75.
Finally, here's a top five list of signs that you are in a cult:
1.) If Tom Cruise is asking YOU for money, then you're probably in a cult.
2.) If you're only allowed to take vitamins when you have a rash covering 80% of your body, then you're probably in a cult.
3.) If your guru has been quoted saying it's more profitable starting a fictitous religion than selling books, then you are probably in a cult.
4.) If enlightenment means getting beamed up to the mothership, then you're probably in a cult.
5.) If you're reading a book by L Ron Hubbard, then you are probably in a cult.
In closing, if you are a scientologist, I've got a great piece of real estate I'd love to sell you.
24 of 31 people found the following review helpful:
If you buy into this so easily, don't breed!, May 29, 2005
Reviewer: Trying to help - See all my reviews
First, a little background: L Ron Hubbard is a failed science fiction writer . . . this should be your first hint that his "religion" is also a work of pure, nonsensical fiction. Secondly, any cult professing to give you enlightenment for a "small" fee should be indicted as a criminal organization. Thirdly, everyone knows the alien spirits came from 76 planets, not 75.
Finally, here's a top five list of signs that you are in a cult:
1.) If Tom Cruise is asking YOU for money, then you're probably in a cult.
2.) If you're only allowed to take vitamins when you have a rash covering 80% of your body, then you're probably in a cult.
3.) If your guru has been quoted saying it's more profitable starting a fictitous religion than selling books, then you are probably in a cult.
4.) If enlightenment means getting beamed up to the mothership, then you're probably in a cult.
5.) If you're reading a book by L Ron Hubbard, then you are probably in a cult.
In closing, if you are a scientologist, I've got a great piece of real estate I'd love to sell you.
Wow, so much to cover here....
Batman was great and the theater was sold out.
Tom Cruise is insane, but a great actor.
All the world's religions have their critics. Scientology is not a religion, it's a cult. Name one "religion" that charges $600,000 to help you reach "God." Scientologists are told to cut-off contact with anyone who isn't "crossing the bridge." In fact, non-believers are considered enemies... sort of like radical Islam. Wait until the Scientologists get some bombs....
Mormonism is, in principal, a decent religion. But, read Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's 'A Study in Scarlet' (the first Sherlock Holmes story, I believe) for a new take on Mormonism.
Batman was great and the theater was sold out.
Tom Cruise is insane, but a great actor.
All the world's religions have their critics. Scientology is not a religion, it's a cult. Name one "religion" that charges $600,000 to help you reach "God." Scientologists are told to cut-off contact with anyone who isn't "crossing the bridge." In fact, non-believers are considered enemies... sort of like radical Islam. Wait until the Scientologists get some bombs....
Mormonism is, in principal, a decent religion. But, read Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's 'A Study in Scarlet' (the first Sherlock Holmes story, I believe) for a new take on Mormonism.
jared_kipe said:
And I can give you personal evidence that is contrary to that.
Reading some of the comments the guys said made me laugh. One said he would be shunned by the LDS kids once their parents found out he was not in the religion. Well, that is the PARENT'S fault, not the LDS church's. In fact, the LDS president has said many times that the faith should embrace those of other faiths and most do. I know I have been embraced by them. I lived with an LDS family for 9 months or so and guess how many times I was asked to read a Book Of Mormon or go to church. Zero.
We could find a David, Kevin, Wes or Jake in every religion. Anti-gay sentiment is rampant in all religions and right now with the conservative goverment, it is huge.
I think you saying that you would not respond anymore to this might be the most inteliigent thing you have uttered in this forum. This world already has enough unenlightened bigots. Hating for hating's sake is pointless.
leftbanke7 said:
WTF are you babbling about? Did you read the thread at all? Its "ok" to hate scientologists (nobody has posted one bad thing to any of the people who are saying Cruise is a "****"), but when I say something about comparing them to mormons (who also require financial donation to reach heaven) this guy jumps on my ass like its made of cancer vaccine. Get over yourselves people, you say we can't trust these quotes from these boys (some are mormon some are not read the ***** article) because they want to vent off steam? Who else are you going to trust? Thats what we called reporting in my day. And you bought up an interesting point, I said they were hypocritical, and you just proved that. They "say" that they should "embrace" other faiths.. WTF is that, any group of people who missionizes as much as they do isn't embracing anything but their own pompous asses. Who the bleep said I hated for hating sake? (excepting you) I don't see that in any of my posts. I grew up a little buddhist boy in a town practically owned by mormons, where they referred to me as "the anti-christ" So I'm speaking from personal evidence myself.
And also for not reading word one I say, I already commented on the fact that there is a big difference between making something up thousands of years ago to making it up now. People believed mice came from hay for f*cks sake. I think one of the problems with the mormons is that they have such a strong community sense, that it almost gives them a mob mentality.
leftbanke7 said:
I would, first of all, like to point out that I was a member of the LDS church for a very long time and left it a few years ago for various reasons which I will later go into.
The church does say that mormons should "embrace" other religions, but that's what they say to the outside world...not to the church members. As a child in the church I was (along with all the other kiddies) taught that our religion was the TRUE religion and that to stray from it in any way would cost our eternal salvation. As I got older this idea of never straying was more enforced and they went so far as to remind us that even questioning our faith could keep us from the Celestial Kingdom (the third and highest realm of heaven reserved for only the best of LDS members). Also we were advised to choose friends that were LDS (they were considered to be "good company") and if we had friends who were not LDS that we should give them a Book of Mormon, share our testimony with them, bring them to church, have missionaries visit with them and their families, and if they still did not join the church then they were friends who would "cause us to stray from the path" and we should be weary when associating with them. Therefore, I am fairly surprised that the family you stayed with never tried any of these things. It seems as though you were lucky enough to find an LDS family who actually likes to help others without any hidden agendas.
Also, as a member, we were discouraged from extensively studying other faiths and the smallest thing (such as not attending seminary every day at 6:00 in the f***ing morning - it sucks, believe me) could make your fellow church goers start to turn cold shoulders toward you as they suspected you were "falling away" from the church. The LDS church has such a strong sense of community and tend to be very friendly (especially towards newcomers) but as time goes on many begin to think badly of you if you are not a perfect mormon. It becomes very hard to try to live up to their standards of what a "good person" is.
The church does not tell a joining member everything about the religion until after they have joined. There are things that LDS members are not supposed to discuss with non members. In fact, there are so many things they teach you after you join that there are 150 missionary taught lessons you are supposed to take (they only give you about 13 lessons before you are baptized...see how much they hide from people!?!). For example, if you are a perfect mormon male (go to church, pay tithing, pray everyday, read the bible and book of mormon) you can go to the Celestial Kingdom. However, if you are a woman and do all of the above mentioned things the male mormon does but do not marry (and marry a perfect male mormon nonetheless) then you can never reach the Celestial Kingdom. Harsh, eh?
You're right about anti-gay beliefs in a FEW religions, but did any of them ever try shock therapy on young males trying to get them to change their "wicked" ways? Or did they ever discourage males from having strong friendships with other males because it could, in theory, lead to a homosexual relationship?
Jared is not an unenlightened bigot. He has read the bible, the book of mormon, and has studied most faiths quite extensively. And he was shunned by the narrow minded LDS in our small town. I know, I saw it happen.
Geez, I think everyone should take a chill pill.
There's one BIG difference between Scientology and all of the mainstream religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and even Mormonism)... the mainstream religions don't make you pay extra to get the full benefit of their teachings. Mormons give away copies of the Book of Mormon free of charge (heck, they spend money buying ads promoting this program), and I'm sure that you can get a free Bible, Torah, or Quran almost for the asking. They will, of course, accept donations or tithes, but they're not really required.
Scientologists, on the other hand, have to shell out a LOT of money to receive what reads like the psychotic ramblings of a third-rate science fiction writer who famously said that the best way to make money is to start a religion... they sound that way because they ARE the psychotic ramblings of a third-rate science fiction writer, etc., etc. Also, I don't remember hearing about any Christian, Muslim, Jew, etc. being coerced into remaining with the religion if they decide to leave.
Scientology is a dangerous cult whose main objective seems to be the maximum extraction of money from well-to-do insecure people with no willpower.
There's one BIG difference between Scientology and all of the mainstream religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and even Mormonism)... the mainstream religions don't make you pay extra to get the full benefit of their teachings. Mormons give away copies of the Book of Mormon free of charge (heck, they spend money buying ads promoting this program), and I'm sure that you can get a free Bible, Torah, or Quran almost for the asking. They will, of course, accept donations or tithes, but they're not really required.
Scientologists, on the other hand, have to shell out a LOT of money to receive what reads like the psychotic ramblings of a third-rate science fiction writer who famously said that the best way to make money is to start a religion... they sound that way because they ARE the psychotic ramblings of a third-rate science fiction writer, etc., etc. Also, I don't remember hearing about any Christian, Muslim, Jew, etc. being coerced into remaining with the religion if they decide to leave.
Scientology is a dangerous cult whose main objective seems to be the maximum extraction of money from well-to-do insecure people with no willpower.
jared_kipe said:
Waaah waaaah waaah Jake!
You were being taken to task for your narrow perspective on Mormons and the limited few you've met in your life.
This hissy fit you are throwing is unbecoming of a Buddhist.
And Kaylie, are you his mommy?
MacDawg said:Goes all Xenu upside Matt Lauer's head...
Google-> define: xenu
Just FYI, for more unflattering information on Scientology, see Operation Clambake at http://www.xenu.net/
And yes... I have read Dianetics, Scientology and several others.
Woof, Woof - Dawg
i was just looking at some unflattering information about scientology and it reminded me of some friends i have who have turned onto being jehovah witnesses or extreme, right wing (political, not religious) fundamentalist christians and basically both philosophies seem to have more to do with mind control more than it does with a personal relationship with christ/god/higher power
one thing i notice about people in cults or cult like groups is how vicious they get when someone criticizes their religion...when someone criticizes my protestant christianity, i don't blow my top and i am aware that there are plenty of people i meet who believe that either i am going to not going to heaven because i am not catholic or because i am not a jehovah witness and that is certainly their opinion
it pains me to hear that mel gibson, another celebrity put into a religious light, has said while he loves his wife so much, he doesn't think she will go to heaven because she is a protestant...mel reportedly does not belong to the greater catholic church, but to a catholic sect/cult called opus dei who, for many reasons, is not on good terms with the vatican
what is it with all these protestant and catholic cults?
craigdawg said:
tom cruise is definitely falling into that brando syndrome and it's so sad to see him lose his sanity
same for michael jackson
but i will still enjoy movies by tom cruise (not high art but almost always entertaining) and the music of michael jackson...i don't have to like a person's personal life and choices in order to enjoy their art
picasso had some personal flaws, to say the least, but it does not change the way i feel about his art
and i could say the same thing about steve jobs...perhaps as strange and difficult as people here, in northern california, say he is, but i am glad that he saved apple inc in the late 90s
Les Kern said:
as one who thinks it is a valuable freedom to mock all religions/cults/evil bastards who make money off the insecure/"phycics"/astrologers as much as you damn well please, to mock a belief is fine to mock a person for it is not, that is where the line is drawn
personally i have many religious friends (christian, islamic, Buddhists, seeks, hindus, jews), who know i mock there (and all) religions and sometimes i engage in debate with them, to call scientology a crack pot religion is a valid statement, but to call all people sucked in by scientology crackpots is debatable, IMO religions are stupid, to believe in a bunch of stuff written in a book by some guy a couple of thousand years ago just for a vein attempt at eternal bliss is weak, but people who believe in an alien lord that was in a war and killed a bunch of other aliens who's spirits now haunt us which was written by a sci-fi novelist take it to a new level, I mean come on use some common sense it has absolutely no basis on reality, to believe in a book written by some dude a few thousand years ago is one thing, but to believe in some story some sci-fi writer made up is another, making the obscene amounts of money the do off the backs of the poor is yet another you cant say scientology is a valid religion, it's not it's a scam, weather there is any "science" behind it or not.
as i said it's valid to mock any religion, or anything else that relies on blind faith, but it's also valid to mock religions more than others, and scientology is a prime example of that.
jared_kipe said:
when people proposed the world was round it was easily proven, just watch a mast sink as it go's into the horizon, pretty much anything with no basis in reality other than man made texts is mockable, weather it turns true in a few years time, people make crack pot predictions all the time and some of the time they turn out true, the idea was still a crack pot one and had no basis on any evidence all the same.
leftbanke7 said:
any idiot can see that for themselves
restless~native said:
well done for assuming everyone is Christian
What I mean is it is a lot easier to just blatantly make stuff up, and have people believe it, back when people believed silly things to begin with.Hector said:
I don't know how a thread that started talking about Tom Cruise ended up with a lengthy tangent on Mormonism, but while we're at it, I've got a few comments of my own.
I'm a practicing Mormon, but haven't ever lived in Utah. I've known plenty of people from Utah and had/have several friends who went to BYU and whatnot. I can't speak much for the people there, or rather, what it's like living with them. It's definately different there from what I hear. Many Mormons are critical of their Utah brethren for various reasons. I hear stuff like "they're nice, but fake nice", or they live a sheltered life from the rest of the world free from even the temptations of a caffinated beverage , they're hypocritical, yada yada yada.... Keep in mind this is Mormons talking about other Mormons.
(btw. the notion that Mormons who drink Coke are going to hell is a myth, I'm a fan of Dr Pepper myself. However, the idea that you can't find a Dr Pepper anywhere on the BYU campus is unfortuately not a myth.)
Above all else though, I think there's still a mutual respect and understanding that they're good people deep inside and doing the best they can. Missionary work is very important to the core beliefs of the LDS church. If your church believes in a modern day prophet who receives revelation directly from God (a la Moses or Elijah), does it make sense to keep this information from your neighbor? To do so would actually seem selfish if you truly believed that what you knew was important.
Most (and when I say most I really mean almost all) Mormons are scared to death to share the church with any of their friends because they're afraid of offending and ruining good relationships. Sharing your beliefs with someone you know is one of the most selfless acts you can do. (this applies to any religion) There are no tangable rewards for introducing the church to a neighbor. Mormons don't keep track of how many friends they "converted" and get vacations at the end of the year for good performance. The only benefit is that your friend, who you care about, is able to enjoy the same things you enjoy about belonging to your church.
You must also understand that there are over 6 million Mormons in the US alone and the state of Utah is close to 70-80% Mormon. For every Mormon jerk you find, there are at least 15 really cool ones. (not a proven statistic but you get my point) My best friend grew up in a suburb of Salt Lake almost his entire life.
Now regarding the comment that the LDS church requires you to give them money: I happen to be greatly offended by the tone of that remark, and so should any other person who donates to whatever church they attend. Part of Christianity teaches us to not be materialistic. Everything we have comes from God and we should be willing to give anything and everything back to Him whenever He should require it. One who donates to a church must believe that the money is going to be used solely for the right purposes and not just to line the fat pockets of the church leadership.
Another side note, the LDS church believes in a lay ministry, meaning no bishop or pastor receives payment for his service, which is typically 25-35 hours a week. They must hold a full time job in addition to their church calling in order to provide for their family. I don't mention that to disrespect any church with a paid ministry, but merely to point out that the idea of individual people profiting off the donations of church members is particularly rediculous in the case of the LDS church.
Also, donations in the LDS church are done very confidentially. (closed envelope, no plate passing) The guy sitting in the pew next to you shouldn't have any clue how much you donate. It's not an opportunity to show off how good and spiritual you are to the people nearby.
Tithes and offerings serve two purposes; 1) to finance the needs of the church (e.g. build chapels or whatever) and 2) to help the membership remember where their sustenance comes from and not put their material possesions above their faith.
I'm a practicing Mormon, but haven't ever lived in Utah. I've known plenty of people from Utah and had/have several friends who went to BYU and whatnot. I can't speak much for the people there, or rather, what it's like living with them. It's definately different there from what I hear. Many Mormons are critical of their Utah brethren for various reasons. I hear stuff like "they're nice, but fake nice", or they live a sheltered life from the rest of the world free from even the temptations of a caffinated beverage , they're hypocritical, yada yada yada.... Keep in mind this is Mormons talking about other Mormons.
(btw. the notion that Mormons who drink Coke are going to hell is a myth, I'm a fan of Dr Pepper myself. However, the idea that you can't find a Dr Pepper anywhere on the BYU campus is unfortuately not a myth.)
Above all else though, I think there's still a mutual respect and understanding that they're good people deep inside and doing the best they can. Missionary work is very important to the core beliefs of the LDS church. If your church believes in a modern day prophet who receives revelation directly from God (a la Moses or Elijah), does it make sense to keep this information from your neighbor? To do so would actually seem selfish if you truly believed that what you knew was important.
Most (and when I say most I really mean almost all) Mormons are scared to death to share the church with any of their friends because they're afraid of offending and ruining good relationships. Sharing your beliefs with someone you know is one of the most selfless acts you can do. (this applies to any religion) There are no tangable rewards for introducing the church to a neighbor. Mormons don't keep track of how many friends they "converted" and get vacations at the end of the year for good performance. The only benefit is that your friend, who you care about, is able to enjoy the same things you enjoy about belonging to your church.
You must also understand that there are over 6 million Mormons in the US alone and the state of Utah is close to 70-80% Mormon. For every Mormon jerk you find, there are at least 15 really cool ones. (not a proven statistic but you get my point) My best friend grew up in a suburb of Salt Lake almost his entire life.
Now regarding the comment that the LDS church requires you to give them money: I happen to be greatly offended by the tone of that remark, and so should any other person who donates to whatever church they attend. Part of Christianity teaches us to not be materialistic. Everything we have comes from God and we should be willing to give anything and everything back to Him whenever He should require it. One who donates to a church must believe that the money is going to be used solely for the right purposes and not just to line the fat pockets of the church leadership.
Another side note, the LDS church believes in a lay ministry, meaning no bishop or pastor receives payment for his service, which is typically 25-35 hours a week. They must hold a full time job in addition to their church calling in order to provide for their family. I don't mention that to disrespect any church with a paid ministry, but merely to point out that the idea of individual people profiting off the donations of church members is particularly rediculous in the case of the LDS church.
Also, donations in the LDS church are done very confidentially. (closed envelope, no plate passing) The guy sitting in the pew next to you shouldn't have any clue how much you donate. It's not an opportunity to show off how good and spiritual you are to the people nearby.
Tithes and offerings serve two purposes; 1) to finance the needs of the church (e.g. build chapels or whatever) and 2) to help the membership remember where their sustenance comes from and not put their material possesions above their faith.
Don't know what google ads you guys are seeing at the top of this thread, but I thought this was a good one....
Believe in Jesus?
We'll pay you $75 right now to complete a simple survey!
I never knew it paid to be a believer before, other than the long-term retirement plan
Believe in Jesus?
We'll pay you $75 right now to complete a simple survey!
I never knew it paid to be a believer before, other than the long-term retirement plan
I'm seeing Mormon History google ads and such......and I don't want to see them....
Let's steer this thread back to Tom Cruise...
I don't know much about Scientology....so I won't go there....but I still have to say Tom Cruise is annoying. Don't know if that's a direct correlation to Scientology or his personality.
Let's steer this thread back to Tom Cruise...
I don't know much about Scientology....so I won't go there....but I still have to say Tom Cruise is annoying. Don't know if that's a direct correlation to Scientology or his personality.
I just love tom cruises quote "Do you know the histry of phyciatry I Do" LOL perhaps he should read up a bit more on the history of scientology before he starts pretending to be an "auditor" I am starting to believe he is on a retainer from the these fraudsters, how many new victims do you think he brings in each year. All told how many scientologists have been convuicted of fraud over the years hundreds if not thousands. How many people have comtted suicide after being robbed blind by these nutjobs. L Ron Hubbard was a crackpot of the highest order, read some of the FBI files on xenu.net the man was a raving lunatic........ Scientology needs to stopped, how i do not know, with tom cruise out there preaching this **** i do not know if this is possible. I wonder how many drugs he took early in his career??? I for one have finished with him, from now on i will refuse to watch his movies,listen to the tripe he talks about and in general hope he goes away soon, perhaps war of the worlds will flop just as quickly as battlefield earth did, now that would be poetic justice wouldn't it.
Sorry for not paragraphing that to well and it is just my want but anyway, and for thoise wondering i am an aithiest, religion is continual joke to me, having said that i respect peoples rights to beleive in what you want, just do it the right way, do not try to convert people or ask for donations for your cause. I will not be getting married in a church, rather by a celebrant, my kids will not be baptised and when i die my body will rot and that will be it for me, all i have to do is enjoy existance while i have it, hopefully for another 50 yrs at least . I also think an afterlife was created only as a means to leak more money out of religious types, the very idea is almost laughable, how can you exist with no physical being????
rant over
Sorry to those i have offended with my rant but that is what i believe!!!!
Sorry for not paragraphing that to well and it is just my want but anyway, and for thoise wondering i am an aithiest, religion is continual joke to me, having said that i respect peoples rights to beleive in what you want, just do it the right way, do not try to convert people or ask for donations for your cause. I will not be getting married in a church, rather by a celebrant, my kids will not be baptised and when i die my body will rot and that will be it for me, all i have to do is enjoy existance while i have it, hopefully for another 50 yrs at least
. I also think an afterlife was created only as a means to leak more money out of religious types, the very idea is almost laughable, how can you exist with no physical being???? rant over
Sorry to those i have offended with my rant but that is what i believe!!!!
I'd love to see Penn Jillette (Lord of the Rational) take on Tom Cruise (Lord of the Irrational) in a debate... and Rule One would be "Saying your opponents name twice in a row is grounds for being beaten unconsciousness", so we wouldn't have any of that "Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt" crap.