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Touch ID inconsistently works on 5s
- Thread starter andrewj
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Fine works like a charm, and is very fast. Since everyone's fingers are different, maybe it works better with some over others?
I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were a biometric engineer with Apple. You should fix your documentation if it's incorrect.
Yeah, I know what the documentation says, but I'm not buying it. Much more likely that people train themselves to use the scanner more accurately. It works great for me btw.
I'm not a biometric engineer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Yeah, they definitely have reason to lie in their documentation.
Besides the documentation, and the fact that you can experience the behavior in action yourself, it makes perfect sense if you think about how the software is designed to work. It is creating a database of your fingerprint. If it doesn't recognize a print, but immediately gets a match on the next try, why wouldn't it add that piece that it didn't recognize to its database. It's perfectly logical.
Then why does Apple say that it does?
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5949?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US
They specifically say: "Touch ID will incrementally add new sections of your fingerprint to your enrolled fingerprint data to improve matching accuracy over time. Touch ID uses all of this to provide an accurate match and a very high level of security."
I would agree that they say this. However my experience is that it is losing accuracy over time, not gaining. Fingerprints that work perfectly when recording stop working a day later. Either this is wrong, there's a software bug, a hardware flaw, or some combination. But some here are definitely not seeing it "learn" anything.
To sum up this thread:
If you say it works 100% of the time you are lying.
If you say it never works, you are not that bright.
If you say it works 100% of the time you are lying.
If you say it never works, you are not that bright.
Yeah, they definitely have reason to lie in their documentation.
Besides the documentation, and the fact that you can experience the behavior in action yourself, it makes perfect sense if you think about how the software is designed to work. It is creating a database of your fingerprint. If it doesn't recognize a print, but immediately gets a match on the next try, why wouldn't it add that piece that it didn't recognize to its database. It's perfectly logical.
I think this is true because while overall it's worked well for me from the beginning I've had a few failures here and there. What I've noticed in the last few days is that the two fingers I use the most to unlock the phone don't seem to be failing at all any more whereas the other other two I trained but use much more rarely still get the occasional need to retry.
I've ran into this issue a few times, I do have sweaty palms at times and even after I wipe them dry the sensor does have a difficult time reading my print.
It's probably software. I'm sure we'll see fixes over time. My sister noticed that it's more accurate using her index finger rather than thumb. I think you are more likely with your thumb to touch the sensor with a part of your print that wasn't scanned.
Could be true but I've been very careful with testing this. I note a position that works perfectly at first and it just doesn't work a day later. And I've tried it with multiple fingers. It simply either stops working or goes down to 5% success when it was working at better than 95% success previously.
For those that say it learns, I've done things like unlock it over a 100 times with the same finger with slightly different positions to help it "learn". A day later it's completely brain dead and can't recognize the finger at all. Deleting the fingerprint and rescanning gets back to almost 100%. For the next day, then back to nothing.
The issue bothering me is if this is a software bug, why isn't everyone seeing it? I could see it might be hardware (the "enclave" in the A7 get corrupted over time) but I only have one 5s to test on.
I think that part of the answer is that to some degree, fingerprint sensors of all types tend to be finicky with some people. We've been using fingerprints on our laptops at work for years. For me, they work 99% of the time. Some people it is closer to 0%. Even though they appear to be doing everything right, they just don't work reliably.
"You're touching it wrong."
Seriously though, I find the same thing. The only times I've had bad reads is when I try to use it with my finger of thumb on there halfway or poke it with the very tip or extreme side. As I'm more used to laying my finger on there vs poking it with the end of a finger the (already rare) instances of a bad read are fewer.
Not a big deal since I'll admit I didn't always tap my PIN code in correct every single time.
Sorry, it's much more likely that Apple is telling the truth. There's no reason to believe they would put something completely untrue in print in this situation.
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To me this sounds more like it is working, but not working correctly. In other words, it's learning, but perhaps a bug is causing it to learn your finger incorrectly.
I'd like to see people stop doing all these weird workarounds and just use a single finger in a single entry for a while and see what happens. I'd also like to know if the people having issues have major calluses.
Sorry, it's marketing material, not a tech spec. They can say whatever they want.
What's stored from your fingerprint is an algorithmic derivation on your fingerprint, a number, not an image of your fingerprint. There is supposed to be no way to take that number and reverse engineer back to an image of your actual fingerprint. So, how are "new sections of your fingerprint" detected after the initial learning process?
Until Apple expands on this, I'll remain skeptical. You can consume their marketing and believe what you want.
Thanks, I shall...it's lean but tasty! Outside of being overly skeptical, there's really no reason not to believe it.
Hey, is that a black helicopter hovering out your window?
That is what I have been doing. Only left thumb and right thumb. Left thumb works better but degrades over time. Right thumb works not as good but acceptable but degrades rapidly until useless in a day. Have tried multiple rescans. My latest attempt is being very very careful about the scan so I get the print and then using exaggerated edges on the sides and front of the thumb when it asks to scan the edges. Seems to help a little bit but it still degrades. I'll see tomorrow how today's scan goes.
Really? Then why buy the new iphone? Did you buy it just to fit in with others that have one? That is one of the selling points for the 5s.
Mine works perfectly every time with my right and left thumb. Sorry to hear that you don't plan to use it. Your missing out.
Mine is fine! I've had no problem with it, at all .and it's gotten faster the more I've used it.