Trump Believes Apple Could Manufacture iPhones in the U.S.

[Velli]

A lot of my old Apple Computer, Inc. stuff says "Made in California". Used to be normal for computers to be made in America.

Sure. But they were also not made in anywhere remotely close to the scale of iPhone.

I don’t think it is impossible, given enough time, to bring it all back. What I am saying is that what you will have afterwards is not better, but much, much worse. If this policy persists, what will happen is that the rest of the world will leave the US behind. You will need the tariff borders, because your products will feel like East Germany to the rest of us.

 

[bluecoast]

Businesses respond to the economic conditions placed on them by various stakeholders which include governments, unions, suppliers, customers, etc. So when unions demand wages that are so much higher than what they would have to pay overseas, and if other factors line up favorably, most if not all businesses will move their production offshore. Combine union demands with high government regulation you have the perfect incentives for companies to do what they've been doing for the last 40 years or so.

Unfortunately I do not believe Trump's tariffs will succeed in bringing production back to America because they do not address the fundamental problems of over regulation and union power.

I’m not sure about that.

There’s a famous graph that shows the disparity between the top highest paid people in major corps and the lowest.

In the 60s it wasn’t too much. Nowadays the gap is huge. I wish I had this graph to hand but please do google for it.

And there’s part of your answer.

 

[Beck446]

The answer is NOBODY and that's why this stupid, 1952-era line of thinking has to stop. Americans are not going to go back to riveting and soldering jobs and besides, those are done robotically.

Well, which is it - are the jobs riveting and soldering, or are the factories automated so workers don't do tasks like that?

Clearly the latter. iPhones aren't handmade. This won't bring back hundreds of thousands of jobs, but it will bring back thousands.

How can the US be a leader in factory automation when it does not have any factories?

Is not building something integrated into design? In other words, how is it that China now makes several models of phones that are just as good as the iPhone? Because they've been building them for nearly 20 years and, as a result, have a lot of expertise in phones. The model of designing while someone else makes an item is not sustainable. Eventually the designer will be overtaken by the maker, because the maker will make a better product and be more productive.

 

[bluecoast]

Sure. But they were also not made in anywhere remotely close to the scale of iPhone.

I don’t think it is impossible, given enough time, to bring it all back. What I am saying is that what you will have afterwards is not better, but much, much worse. If this policy persists, what will happen is that the rest of the world will leave the US behind. You will need the tariff borders, because your products will feel like East Germany to the rest of us.

Just want to do a thought experiment here, with a lot of assumptions.

Let’s say that the interior of the iPhone is complicated to put together because of the industrial design exterior chassis that Apple wants to achieve…

… Designs that nearly everyone immediately slaps in a case as they are way too delicate to survive the rigours of everyday life no matter how much Apple goes on about the Ceramic Shield.

At this point the look of the iPhone is basically a branding and marketing exercise because all everyone sees second after opening the box is the front plate in a case.

Let’s say that the iPhone’s chassis design is changed to something more like the MBP. Something more blocky and brutalist (and hopefully less delicate).

Would then this design be easier to put together?

Wouldn’t you be able to have circuit board layers of electronics more like floors in a building ?

And wouldn’t this be easier to automate a lot more?

Genuinely curious if someone who knows what they are taking about replies to this (as I certainly don’t!).

 

[Cervisia]

Yes wages, electricity and services are more expensive in the US. I guess Apple will continue to manufacture parts in China and do the assembly in India which is tariffed at 27% it's a better deal than the U.S. at best the iPhone will be 27% more expensive.

But if the current system stays in place for the long run, that means the trade deficit towards India grows, which will mean the tariffs increase, while on China decrease.

Also, your math is wrong. 27% applies to the value at entry point, not the sale price.

 

[jblank]

The "riveting and soldering" allusion is in reference to the misguided belief by the administration that we're going to reindustrialize on a 1950's level and that Americans would be the ones doing the work.

Thousands of jobs is not worth a recession, especially a global one, and it's going to dramatically increase an already inflationary economy. Let's say just to give you the benefit of the doubt that this idiotic plan creates 200k jobs in the auto industry, what good is that going to be if the products they make are priced so high that they're not competitive and not affordable because so many of their constituent parts are tariffed OR they eventually get made here but the labor costs are so high that a base model Ford Whatever goes up 30%?

So in summary, both things I said are true. Americans don't want assembly line types of jobs AND those jobs have been supplanted by robotic labor. What Americans DO want, are affordable products in the market.

 

[DocMultimedia]

Trump also believes dictators are great people. He has a pile a pecans in his head.

 

[CouldBeWorse]

You people do realize smartphones like the $400 Motorola Moto X was made in the USA?

Assembled in the USA using components that were manufactured overseas.

 

[Karma*Police]

Not sure if it’s sarcasm or the cognitive flexibility to change your mind and opinion, but I congratulate you on it.


Thanks - but I’ll side with the Karma*Police from six years ago.


…using the White House lawn as showroom for his buddy’s electric car company.

Draining the swamp of its corruption, yeah.

Exactly. I, like many, have seen through the media propaganda and am much more knowledgeable as a result.

There’s a clear correlation between the media’s declining ratings and Trump’s rising popularity.

You think Elon has done better by joining Trump to eliminate waste and fraud in govt? By what metric? That is the delusion I’m talking about.

 

[jblank]

Trump also believes dictators are great people. He has a pile a pecans in his head.

Personally, I think both sides need to take care of their own "pecans" (nuts) before lobbing insults. Trump certainly has his issues with bizarre beliefs, but his predecessor was a houseplant and as this Rutgers/NCRI study shows, a majority of the American left has developed a fascination with political violence, assassination, and terrorism, to the point that they view it as "normal". Safe to say a majority of them have heads filled with pecans also.

55% Of Self-Identified Leftists Say Killing Trump Is Justifiable

The more troubling trend is the rising violent rhetoric isn’t just coming from the 'fringe' left, it's being 'normalized' by the left.

thefederalist.com

 

[revfife]

I remember in the early days of computers where they cost $1000 - $2000 for a home desktop computer. Laptops were insanely expensive. TVs were expensive. Everything was expensive. Very few homes were able to afford a desktop computer, so when you got one you were quite fancy.

Since then manufacturing has caught up. Cheaper and faster to produce in China, so computers have become everywhere. Every home has a computer. Parts get cheaper. Evolution happens faster. Chips are produced quicker. Innovation doubles and cost shrinks.

Discounted manufacturing equaled a more democratic distribution of access to things such as electronics and information. You didn't have to be rich to have a computer in your home or access to a cellphone in your pocket.

So when we discuss the costs of USA manufacturing there are always tradeoffs we have to consider.

They "could" in about 5-10 years maybe manufacture them in the USA.

Your iPhone 22 Pro will cost you $4000 - $5000

 

[Karma*Police]

I'm betting you have zero money saved up and in investments, and living paycheck to paycheck. even the maga influencers are mad at trump.

I’d take that bet and you’d lose your shirt.

If you look at my previous posts you’d realize I’m more financially aware/savvy than the vast majority of people here. Just look at my posts warning people that Biden spending $11T will have severe consequences. Heck, Jamie Dimon has been saying the same thing and Warren Buffet has been raising cash for over a year.

Everyone agrees that the politicians have done a piss poor job of being good stewards of our money, to the point where the govt spends $3B/ per DAY to just pay down interest on $37T of debt.

It’s the people who are whining loudest who are the most ignorant and/or don’t care about the future of this country.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Pure fantasy from Dons Demented brain

 

[Velli]

But if the current system stays in place for the long run, that means the trade deficit towards India grows, which will mean the tariffs increase, while on China decrease.

Also, your math is wrong. 27% applies to the value at entry point, not the sale price.

I’ve seen that argument before, but business don’t count like that. They usually work on percentages, not absolutes. Apple doesn’t target (example) 200USD margin, they target (example) 35% margin. That means that 27% increase in cost translates to 27% increase in sales price. If anything, margin is typically higher the higher the product price is, to account for lower volume so higher indirect costs per unit. So it’s most likely that retail price will increase by at least the tariff percentage. At least long term, it’s most likely that Apple will suck up the difference until launch of new models.

 

[Blackstick]

I always buy the USA-made version when given the option. Many people will. Always! The problem is all the products are made overseas because it made the CEOs and top 1% wealthy. There were incentives for the top 1% to eliminate the benefits then the workers didn’t want the jobs and work for free. It’s a vicious cycle that someone needs to stop. If the government doesn’t force it, the CEOs and shareholders will never give it back. All the people complaining don’t really even understand. Do you want your cheap iPhone so bad you’re willing to buy it from people who are treated like slaves in China? How about all the problems with how they treat Muslims? You can’t have it both ways. You either care about all people or only yourselves.

You're one of very few. The only reason I've played for 25 years is because I was able to mow lawns as a teen for a summer and finally afford a used Squier. Without that Indonesian made guitar, if only $1700 American ones were the option? I'd have never started playing. No bueno. Gotta offer price points to the poor.

Just because you or me have the means to endure a $2200 iPhone or guitar, doesn't mean the majority can.

 

[Karma*Police]

Let’s talk facts, rather than name-calling the other side (note: I don’t support neither democrats nor republicans, so I don’t feel attacked by namecalling democrats. I support the idea of a middle ground that currently doesn’t exist in US politics):

If Trump is not “dumb”, please explain why he went on TV with a big board that presented trade deficits as “tariffs”. If he is not “dumb”, there is only one other option: Deception. Which is worse: A dumb president, or a president that purposefully deceits the American people?

I don’t know which is worse, but I know that both options are BAD.

I’m not sure what board you’re referring to… the one I saw was a list of tariffs to be imposed on individual countries. If there’s a board that showed deficit by country, it would also make sense from the context of reciprocal tariffs and the gap the US is trying to close with tariffs as the main tool.

I’m sure you’ll agree that many Americans do not understand economics; even people with economics degrees… just look at AOC.

Therefore, politicians will oftentimes simplify their messaging. The democrats have mastered it: the rich need to pay their fair share; my body my choice; people need to be paid a living wage; healthcare is a human right, etc. yet when pushed to explain, like what does “fair share” look like, you’ll get blank stares from people who parrot those slogans.

In Trump’s case, a good example is how they tout reciprocal tariffs because that’s easy to understand. But it’s far more nuances than that. Japan, for example, has pretty low tariffs on US goods BUT they’ve created regulatory barriers to entry which is why you rarely see an American car in Japan. Tariffs are being used to get them to the negotiating table to remove those non-tariff barriers.

 

[turbineseaplane]

my body my choice; people need to be paid a living wage; healthcare is a human right,

Personally, I'm onboard with all 3 of these, no matter who's suggesting them or using them as slogans.

 

[ThailandToo]

I am so glad I moved to Europe and will never have to step foot in the United States again. The timing was perfect. I sold all of my stock off at the peak, but have yet to open my new brokerage accounts. When I do, I don't think I will ever purchase stock in a company based the United States again.

These tariffs and other policies are why the United States is no longer respected. Even if Trump is removed from office tomorrow, I don't think the U.S. will be respected again. People back in the States don't get just how much hatred his policies have provoked. People are going out of their way not to buy goods manufactured in the United States. That will not change.

The government is not the people. When the people have two terrible options for president, nobody is going to win. The problem is the USA is NOT a democracy. It’s a republic. There’s a big difference in those meanings. The money and greed control American politicians and corporations.

But most Americans aren’t happy about any of it. Doesn’t matter what side you’re on the options aren’t good. We need aliens to come attack the planet to unite the world. LOL. Short of aliens, we’re all screwed.

 

[ThailandToo]

You're one of very few. The only reason I've played for 25 years is because I was able to mow lawns as a teen for a summer and finally afford a used Squier. Without that Indonesian made guitar, if only $1700 American ones were the option? I'd have never started playing. No bueno. Gotta offer price points to the poor.

Just because you or me have the means to endure a $2200 iPhone or guitar, doesn't mean the majority can.

You’re missing the point. If the CEOs and politicians weren’t greed focused, we wouldn’t be in this problem in the first place. And I would say buy from the free world or wherever you want. But most Americans haven’t traveled through China. They don’t realize China has far more advanced cities and mass transportation systems than the USA. It was all built on the backs of Chinese that were treated like slaves. And the money flowed straight from the middle class Americans to the Chinese government and companies. China built a great infrastructure with the money. Now they’re building a super military. They don’t need to bend the knee to Trump. But every choice by every consumer leads to this because if the consumer refuses to buy goods, companies will bring the manufacturers back home.

 

[JordanCautious]

Beyond dumb on every metric. Not to mention even if we did have one, the raw materials will still have tariffs on them

 

[turbineseaplane]

Beyond dumb on every metric

The worst part of all of this is anyone believing Don has some well reasoned master plan.

He's a game show host with multiple major business failures.

He's a good marketer and a con man.

He doesn't read. He's not intellectual.
He has no empathy and is not well versed in history or strategy beyond bullying.

This is not a good person.
This is not an intelligent person.

He's an ignoramus and a thug.
There's no more to it.

 

[Imperial926]

Somehow I don’t see Trump or the modern Republican Party caring much for the welfare of the Chinese or Muslims. Nice try though!

 

[jblank]

I’m not sure what board you’re referring to… the one I saw was a list of tariffs to be imposed on individual countries. If there’s a board that showed deficit by country, it would also make sense from the context of reciprocal tariffs and the gap the US is trying to close with tariffs as the main tool.

I’m sure you’ll agree that many Americans do not understand economics; even people with economics degrees… just look at AOC.

Therefore, politicians will oftentimes simplify their messaging. The democrats have mastered it: the rich need to pay their fair share; my body my choice; people need to be paid a living wage; healthcare is a human right, etc. yet when pushed to explain, like what does “fair share” look like, you’ll get blank stares from people who parrot those slogans.

In Trump’s case, a good example is how they tout reciprocal tariffs because that’s easy to understand. But it’s far more nuances than that. Japan, for example, has pretty low tariffs on US goods BUT they’ve created regulatory barriers to entry which is why you rarely see an American car in Japan. Tariffs are being used to get them to the negotiating table to remove those non-tariff barriers.

I agree with many of your points, but I have to respectfully disagree with a couple.

1) The board he's referring to was based on a phony premise. Trump lied and made it look like countries like Vietnam had like a 90% tariff rate against us, something that is completely false. They used funny math that merged tariff rate and trade deficit to attempt to manipulate public opinion.

2) We don't need to have balanced trade with everyone. You have a trade deficit with your grocery store, it's perfectly fine for us to have a trade deficit as many countries simply can't afford to buy their products but we buy from them because their labor is cheaper. We benefit from that and it's ok. Forcing removal of "barriers" is likely to have the opposite impact the administration wants.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Somehow I don’t see Trump or the modern Republican Party caring much for the welfare of the Chinese or Muslims. Nice try though!

They don't care for the welfare of their own constituents!

They are trying very hard to pass a massive tax cut overwhelmingly to the benefit of very rich people and wanting to fund it by gutting what little social support structure even exists in the USA...which disproportionately impacts R voters.

 

[jblank]

Somehow I don’t see Trump or the modern Republican Party caring much for the welfare of the Chinese or Muslims. Nice try though!

Dems don't either. Everybody will pay lip service to the Uyghurs though. China knows this.