Trump Believes Apple Could Manufacture iPhones in the U.S.

[Beck446]

So in summary, both things I said are true. Americans don't want assembly line types of jobs AND those jobs have been supplanted by robotic labor. What Americans DO want, are affordable products in the market.

So are the factories highly automated or not? If so then there aren't "assembly line jobs from the 1950s". These are highly sophisticated factories, with the latest automation, AI, tooling, etc.

You can argue that prices will go up and the whole thing isn't worth the payoff.

But you can't argue that these are assembly line jobs that Americans don't want and that the factories are highly sophisticated and automated with high tech. Those two things simply cannot both be true.

 

[jblank]

They don't care for the welfare of their own constituents!

They are trying very hard to pass a massive tax cut overwhelmingly to the benefit of very rich people and wanting to fund it by gutting what little social support structure even exists in the USA...which disproportionately impacts R voters.

You've really gotta turn off MSNBC and just look at things from a data first perspective. First off, any tax cut will always benefit the wealthy because the top 10% of earners pay over 75% of US taxes. What your side always fails to acknowledge though is that any cut in the tax RATE applies across the board so all taxpayers will pay less in taxes. If the tax cuts of 2017-2018 are not made permanent, you will see your net take home pay decrease, as an example.

Secondly, much to my chagrin, no, they are NOT going to "gut" social support programs, even though we need to as it's the biggest driver of the deficit and our federal debt. It is unsustainable but nobody wants to touch it, because it's the third rail of politics. Republicans are gutless and don't want to make the tough decisions on social programs/entitlements while Democrats just want to continue to print money and spend us into a faster oblivion that will inevitably lead to austerity measures.

They both suck.

 

[jblank]

So are the factories highly automated or not? If so then there aren't "assembly line jobs from the 1950s". These are highly sophisticated factories, with the latest automation, AI, tooling, etc.

You can argue that prices will go up and the whole thing isn't worth the payoff.

But you can't argue that these are assembly line jobs that Americans don't want and that the factories are highly sophisticated and automated with high tech. Those two things simply cannot both be true.

You're misunderstanding my explanation so let me try to break it down a bit better.

The administration thinks in a 1950's assembly line kind of way and that they can bring back "manufacturing jobs" that will employ people in those types of jobs and cause a great reindustrialization a la post-WWII America. It's not going to happen for a variety of reasons chiefly because those jobs don't really exist, in most sectors and where they do exist, if brought back here, nobody will want to do them. Lutnick just yesterday was talking out of both sides of his mouth on this.

Prices will have to go up, no, it's not worth the payoff because the payoff is slow net job growth because of job losses due to a slowing economy or a retracting economy.

Yes sir, they both can be true.

 

[Jumpthesnark]

100% of the people who think negatively of Trump's strategy are thinking "quick fix". It is not a quick fix.

Please don't generalize all people who disagree with Trump's strategy as being unsophisticated or uneducated or somehow less aware of economics than you. A lot of people who disagree with him on tariffs have run the numbers and the numbers aren't good. Partly because if a long-term solution is needed, as you say, then blanket tariffs are the wrong tool for the job.

But you have already seen what economists, owners of businesses large and small, investors and consumers are saying. That blanket tariffs are not a fix at all.

 

[Karma*Police]

Personally, I'm onboard with all 3 of these, no matter who's suggesting them or using them as slogans.

And I’m ok with that so long as you’re not a puppet and can rationally defend those positions. Most can’t.

 

[turbineseaplane]

More and more people need to start thinking about this.

 

[jblank]

The worst part of all of this is anyone believing Don has some well reasoned master plan.

He's a game show host with multiple major business failures.

He's a good marketer and a con man.

He doesn't read. He's not intellectual.
He has no empathy and is not well versed in history or strategy beyond bullying.

This is not a good person.
This is not an intelligent person.

He's an ignoramus and a thug.
There's no more to it.

Go back 115 years or so and you literally could be describing Teddy Roosevelt, with many of those descriptions. If you'd like to resurrect the corpse of Woodrow Wilson, you could have your well-read, intellectual, elitist. He was also a monster and a tyrant and one of the worst presidents we have ever had.

Be careful about believing in the value of elitist box checking.

 

[turbineseaplane]

And I’m ok with that so long as you’re not a puppet and can rationally defend those positions. Most can’t.

Naturally.

It should be noted, however, that with something like bodily choice and pro-choice/pro-life there is a huge component of that where it's personal opinion and preference and religious views (where truly "rational defense" is largely impossible).

 

[jblank]

More and more people need to start thinking about this.

View attachment 2500696

Where were you for the last four years when we had a President who according to his own Chief of Staff, believed he was the President of NATO? This hypocrisy is what really gets my goat. You guys sat there and defended the mental faculties of President Houseplant for four years, the media covered up his mental decline, you were good with that. Now, you all lob a lot of the same type of attacks at Trump? Gotta call that crap out.

These tariff plans are horrible policy but Trump's not "insane".

 

[turbineseaplane]

Where were you for the last four years when we had a President who according to his own Chief of Staff, believed he was the President of NATO? This hypocrisy is what really gets my goat. You guys sat there and defended the mental faculties of President Houseplant for four years, the media covered up his mental decline, you were good with that. Now, you all lob a lot of the same type of attacks at Trump? Gotta call that crap out.

These tariff plans are horrible policy but Trump's not "insane".

Take it easy my friend.
You can't assume you know everything about everyone and their views over time like you've just done.

I wasn't a fan of the Biden mental decline situation either -- I didn't feel like I really knew about it until it was well down the path, honestly.

"Life" was going on and things were mostly fine.
That's how normal people (in America at least) tend to work.

We don't want to think about politics constantly and unless someone is cratering the world economy, we tend to dip in and out of it as time and life permit.

To be honest, at this point in time, I'm worried about the actual emergency before us and not past administrations, no matter what qualms I may have had at the time or looking back at it now.

We can't do anything about the past.

 

[lovehateapple]

I’m not sure about that.

There’s a famous graph that shows the disparity between the top highest paid people in major corps and the lowest.

In the 60s it wasn’t too much. Nowadays the gap is huge. I wish I had this graph to hand but please do google for it.

And there’s part of your answer.

The reason why the wealth and income gap is so large today is the fact that we no longer use sound Constitutional money. There's a reason why the gap was so much smaller before Bretton Woods was ended.

Austrian school economists have warned us for decades whenever a country adopts fiat currency, the middle class gets wiped out while the people closest to the government and the banks get richer.

There's an excellent documentary on YT called End of the Road, How Money Became Worthless. It's worth a watch. I also highly recommend Mike Maloney's Hidden Secrets of Money, also on YT.

 

[jblank]

Take it easy my friend.
You can't assume you know everything about everyone and their views over time like you've just done.

I wasn't a fan of the Biden mental decline situation either -- I didn't feel like I really knew about it until it was well down the path, honestly.

"Life" was going on and things were mostly fine.
That's how normal people (in America at least) tend to work.

We don't want to think about politics constantly and unless someone is cratering the world economy, we tend to dip in and out of it as time and life permit.

To be honest, at this point in time, I'm worried about the actual emergency before us and not past administrations, no matter what qualms I may have had at the time or looking back at it now.

We can't do anything about the past.

We can make sure we don't have collaboration to hide mental decline, so yeah, we kinda can.

In any case, there's a thousand different ways of criticizing a political decision without the "omg he's insane" line of attack.

Apologies if I misunderstood your belief system but ya didn't exactly come off as non-ideological in your critiques.

 

[jblank]

The reason why the wealth and income gap is so large today is the fact that we no longer use sound Constitutional money. There's a reason why the gap was so much smaller before Bretton Woods was ended.

Austrian school economists have warned us for decades whenever a country adopts fiat currency, the middle class gets wiped out and the people closest to the government and the banks get richer.

There's an excellent documentary on YT called End of the Road, How Money Became Worthless. It's worth a watch. I also highly recommend Mike Maloney's Hidden Secrets of Money, also on YT.

OMG finally someone else who gets it! If I wasn't already married for 29 years I'd marry you! LOL

 

[Karma*Police]

I agree with many of your points, but I have to respectfully disagree with a couple.

1) The board he's referring to was based on a phony premise. Trump lied and made it look like countries like Vietnam had like a 90% tariff rate against us, something that is completely false. They used funny math that merged tariff rate and trade deficit to attempt to manipulate public opinion.

2) We don't need to have balanced trade with everyone. You have a trade deficit with your grocery store, it's perfectly fine for us to have a trade deficit as many countries simply can't afford to buy their products but we buy from them because their labor is cheaper. We benefit from that and it's ok. Forcing removal of "barriers" is likely to have the opposite impact the administration wants.

1. I think the funny math goes to my point about simplifying messaging. You’re right in that it’s not straightforward, but neither is “reciprocal tariffs.”

2. Imbalance is fine but not when it’s to the tune of $1T/year and growing. There’s also the issue of national security. Covid showed just how reliant we are on other countries for basic goods and medicines. Tariffs is a tool to help bring manufacturers to America.

Will it work? That remains to be seen. But considering the success of his first term when I called him an economic buffoon (only to stand corrected when we experienced one of the greatest economic booms in history), this time I will be much more kind and patient with his policies.

Tax cuts, deregulation, drill baby drill, and DOGE will also play a big role in paying down debt while stimulating the economy (a super tall order considering the mess we’re in) but something had to be done and I haven’t heard of anyone stepping up with better ideas… just a lot of whining and complaining.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Tax cuts, deregulation, drill baby drill, and DOGE will also play a big role in paying down debt

There will be no market beyond domestic for anything that is "drilled for" and how on Earth can you be worried about debt when Trump is proposing a TRILLION dollar military budget and a massive tax cut targeted to benefit everyone but those who actually need it?

 

[bluecoast]

The reason why the wealth and income gap is so large today is the fact that we no longer use sound Constitutional money. There's a reason why the gap was so much smaller before Bretton Woods was ended.

Austrian school economists have warned us for decades whenever a country adopts fiat currency, the middle class gets wiped out while the people closest to the government and the banks get richer.

There's an excellent documentary on YT called End of the Road, How Money Became Worthless. It's worth a watch. I also highly recommend Mike Maloney's Hidden Secrets of Money, also on YT.

Thanks, some great recommendations, always keen to learn.

 

[Dark_Omen]

Imagine not even being a U.S Citizen, and yet, injecting your pointless input in on U.S politics without having a clue about the way of life we want here.

What benefit do we have by allowing businesses to operate overseas with little resistance? Should we continue losing good paying jobs to other countries? Don't think so. Eventually your McDonalds employees and your retail employees will be replaced with online sales and AI. What will the country do then? Make it expensive to operate overseas and cheaper to operate here.

 

[Dark_Omen]

There will be no market beyond domestic for anything that is "drilled for" and how on Earth can you be worried about debt when Trump is proposing a TRILLION dollar military budget and a massive tax cut targeted to benefit everyone but those who actually need it?

The military budget has been over a trillion dollars for years. The tax cuts were done in 2017 -- he just wants to extend them. The tax increases also have an effect on the middle class, as the cuts applied to us too. You're going to increase business taxes and keep tariffs low to non-existent so more jobs will go overseas?

 

[turbineseaplane]

Should we continue losing good paying jobs to other countries? Don't think so. Eventually your McDonalds employees and your retail employees will be replaced with online sales and AI.

Which good paying jobs did we lose to other countries?

 

[turbineseaplane]

The military budget has been over a trillion dollars for years. The tax cuts were done in 2017 -- he just wants to extend them. The tax increases also have an effect on the middle class, as the cuts applied to us too. You're going to increase business taxes and keep tariffs low to non-existent so more jobs will go overseas?

"Record"
"First ever"

 

[macfacts]

the one I saw was a list of tariffs to be imposed on individual countries. If there’s a board that showed deficit by country, it would also make sense from the context of reciprocal tariffs and the gap the US is trying to close with tariffs as the main tool.

The trump administration made up a formula and none of the inputs to the formula used tariff numbers, they used import and export numbers. https://ustr.gov/issue-areas/reciprocal-tariff-calculations
Trump is mad rich Americans are buying cheap goods from poor countries.

 

[turbineseaplane]

The tax cuts were done in 2017 -- he just wants to extend them.

Which they should not be if we are trying to change our fiscal ways

 

[Dark_Omen]

Which good paying jobs did we lose to other countries?

Manufacturing has plenty of good jobs.
Worked for Budweiser as a consultant at one point. Excellent pay, benefits, and a union.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Manufacturing has plenty of good jobs.
Worked for Budweiser as a consultant at one point. Excellent pay, benefits, and a union.

Trump and those he's empowered are fiercely anti-union
You're not getting union negotiated "excellent pay and benefits" back by supporting him or his ideology.

Beyond unions, they are gutting all forms of worker protections from health consequences, discrimination and working condition deterioration.

Nothing about this is pro normal person/worker

 

[BuddyTronic]

And you’d still be British if it wasn’t for the the French. Stop living in the past, because compared to Europe, you have a very short one.

1: The 10% tariff on US cars isn’t why people aren’t buying them. It’s because you don’t make the cars we want. As proven by Tesla, if you actually make a car we want, people will buy it.

2: By your own logic, the solution to that 10% tariff is to manufacture them in Europe, to get around the tariff. Like Tesla. Not sure how that helps the US though.

3: It’s very easy to avoid being fined by EU. Simply design your product to follow local law, whether you agree with the law or not. Just like when I sell my products to the US, I have to pay for separate safety tests etc, even though the tests are less strict than the ones I do for other markets. So stop whining about regulations being “difficult”. If US would be willing to adopt the same standards as in Europe, they could make the same product everywhere. Comparably, it’s easy as pie for a European car manufacturer to sell into US, because if you can pass EU law, the US law is cakewalk. Also, EU don’t only fine US companies, they fine European companies to when they break the rules. That’s the conditions of doing trade here. If US companies can’t handle it, that’s on them.

I guess what you say makes sense. Except for that first part - it was a bit hurtful what was said previously. USA did help the world get back on its feet. Never in history has a country treated the spoils of war like how USA did after WW2 - this demonstrated the goodness of America. With the atomic bomb demonstrated, USA could have taken over the entire world, but they didn't do that. It's worth remembering that past I think.

If safety and health regulations are at a higher standard in EU, I guess I can almost agree about the rationale for restricting imports - at least we can see the logic of it. Not good for business maybe. I think Trump won't like it.

To the topic of Apple though - I DO feel that the EU has so many regulations to draw from that it grabbed Billions of dollars from Apple by putting it under the magnifying glass a bit too harshly.

I believe I am starting to understand the Tariff plan.

Cause Tariff chaos. Tariff even the penguins in Antarctica to prevent any Tariff loopholes. Tear down the existing trade system. Get the Fed to drop interest rates. Refinance the national US debt a bit. Negotiate easily with the world to establish lower tariffs, perhaps getting closer to free trade, but with some catches so that USA has the edge and can have a chance to pay off it's unrecoverable position with the $37 Trillion debt. If they don't do that I guess it could get a LOT worse. Nobody likes this, but It's a big reset. The whole planet has to pitch in to pay the US national debt! Wow.