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Mackinjosh

Suspended
Aug 21, 2014
1,181
1,697
I love these posts. Virtue signaling the silent mode. Like feeling an unnecessarily large victory for using the downvote button on reddit. Exercising your constitutional rights to thicken the echo chambers.

Seal Clap
Awwwwww look he has a victim complex. Booohoooooo
 

FrenchRoasted

macrumors regular
Sep 21, 2016
215
1,196
Classic Trump apologist. The truth is this guy says he knows more about military strategy than his generals. Great. Nothing like a combination of
arrogance and ignorance in matters of life and death.

But heck, you might also agree that McCain wasn’t a war hero because he was captured.

I have no time for this insanity.
Classic zombie troll response.
I did not vote for Trump, but I will support any politician who makes a move towards peace. WTF is your problem with peace?
All of generals have a bias towards the war machine, maybe it takes a crazy person like Trump to go against that? Of course we had a chance with Ron Paul and blew that. I'll go out on a limb and assume you hate Ron Paul just based on your stupid troll response.
McCain was a crazy war monger who NEVER voted against war in any form. Of course now the left is in love with the memory of that nut job which is why I lost complete respect with the left in this country. Now MSNBC loves the war Military Industrial Complex, believes everything the CIA/FBI/NSA says and wants war with Russia.
Glad you have no time for this insanity, but thanks for being the poster boy for Trump Derangement Syndrome!
 
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Tonewheel

macrumors 6502a
Sep 28, 2007
954
353
Careful with those comments, gang. The big bad admins are going to slap you down.
 

Jimmy Bubbles

macrumors 6502a
Jul 10, 2008
725
1,067
Nashville, TN
Every country on this planet is defined as a country by it's borders and without a wall around it. Every state in this country is defined with borders and without the need of walls. That is not a debatable point that is a simple fact. Or are you really trying to suggest a country is not a country without a wall around it? Where does the USA stop and Canada begin if there is no wall to define it's border? Do you see how stupid your point is now?

A house by it's very definition is a building for habitation. And a building by it's definition is a structure with a roof and walls. Don't tell others to come with debatable points when you're the one making the suggestion that a wall somehow defines the borders of a country when that is simply false.

So you're telling me that "every country on this planet" does not have points of entry designated? I'm beginning to feel like you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. How many illegal aliens do we have crossing into the US from Canada? And your point about every state in the US not having a wall is very ignorant. That's because all of the lower 50 states are in agreement with each other, living under the common rule of law of the Constitution. The 48 states are all connected. Why do you think you don't have to show your passport here to cross state lines? However, in Europe, you do.
 

Mainsail

macrumors 68020
Sep 19, 2010
2,102
2,717
Classic zombie troll response.
I did not vote for Trump, but I will support any politician who makes a move towards peace. WTF is your problem with peace?
All of generals have a bias towards the war machine, maybe it takes a crazy person like Trump to go against that? Of course we had a chance with Ron Paul and blew that. I'll go out on a limb and assume you hate Ron Paul just based on your stupid troll response.
McCain was a crazy war monger who NEVER voted against war in any form. Of course now the left is in love with the memory of that nut job which is why I lost complete respect with the left in this country. Now MSNBC loves the war Military Industrial Complex, believes everything the CIA/FBI/NSA says and wants war with Russia.
Glad you have no time for this insanity, but thanks for being the poster boy for Trump Derangement Syndrome!

You will support any politician that makes a move toward peace? Then you would have loved Chamberlain before World War 2. War is horrible. But I reject the idea that all generals are war mongers.....especially those that have lived through it. I reject the idea that I have to accept what a leader says or does no matter his maniacal narcissistic ignorance, along with an arrogance that makes him incapable of learning anything because he thinks he knows everthing.

This whole thread started because our President made yet another statement that is demonstrably untrue. This happens almost daily. I have no problem changing military strategy if the facts indicate that this is the right thing to do. But, we have a President that does not deal in facts, and believes he can just make up stuff....and this somehow makes it true. It does not! That’s the point. It’s not such a big deal if you are selling real estate or hosting a reality tv show. It’s a bigger deal in trade policy and a huge deal in life or death matters, such as military strategy.
 

FrenchRoasted

macrumors regular
Sep 21, 2016
215
1,196
You will support any politician that makes a move toward peace? Then you would have loved Chamberlain before World War 2. War is horrible. But I reject the idea that all generals are war mongers.....especially those that have lived through it. I reject the idea that I have to accept what a leader says or does no matter his maniacal narcissistic ignorance, along with an arrogance that makes him incapable of learning anything because he thinks he knows everthing.

This whole thread started because our President made yet another statement that is demonstrably untrue. This happens almost daily. I have no problem changing military strategy if the facts indicate that this is the right thing to do. But, we have a President that does not deal in facts, and believes he can just make up stuff....and this somehow makes it true. It does not! That’s the point. It’s not such a big deal if you are selling real estate or hosting a reality tv show. It’s a bigger deal in trade policy and a huge deal in life or death matters, such as military strategy.
You really think this is equivalent to WW2? Perhaps you should take a look at google maps and see where Syria is in relation to the US.
BTW, if the US didn't intervene in WW1, "making the world safe for democracy", there wouldn't have been a WW2.
I don't give a damn how many stupid lies Trump utters. If he gets our troops out of Syria, that is a good thing, FULL STOP.
BTW2 - Most of the generals and politicians are war mongers, it's in their DNA and why they climbed their way to the top so they can rule over others.
 

Mainsail

macrumors 68020
Sep 19, 2010
2,102
2,717
You really think this is equivalent to WW2? Perhaps you should take a look at google maps and see where Syria is in relation to the US.
BTW, if the US didn't intervene in WW1, "making the world safe for democracy", there wouldn't have been a WW2.
I don't give a damn how many stupid lies Trump utters. If he gets our troops out of Syria, that is a good thing, FULL STOP.
BTW2 - Most of the generals and politicians are war mongers, it's in their DNA and why they climbed their way to the top so they can rule over others.

Well, I think you hit the nail on the head. This is where we differ. I want a President that operates based on facts, and you apparently don’t care if he lies and creates his own "facts" (which aren't really facts).

But, just wondering. If your President isn’t make decisions based on facts and the best intel/analysis available from top professional in their field (including the military), then how exactly do you expect him to make decisions? Actually, maybe we know the answer to this.....he makes decisions based on what he hears on Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, and conservative conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones.

I recognize that professionals can get it wrong sometimes. But, that is no justification for the way this President operates without regard to facts and the truth. I guess we will have to just agree to disagree.

BTW - In case you think I am another left wing zombie, I had been a registered Republican for 40 years. My wife is a Republican. My parents are Republicans. My wife's parents are Republicans. My only brother is a Republican.....on and on. By almost any measure on policy issues, I am a raging moderate.....there is just no place for me anymore in the Party of Trump.

BTW2 - I have no idea what difference it makes how far away Syria is from the USA. We are fighting a global war on terrorism, of which ISIS is a major player. They have killed US citizens in our country (remember the 49 souls lost in Orlando). Should we not have gone to Pakistan to bring Bin Ladin to justice because it was too far away? During WW2, US troops were all over the globe....Pacific Theater was vast, Middle East, North Africa, Europe.....etc.

BTW3 - I suppose you saw on the news today that the President is walking back his timeline for withdrawal of troops, and his National Security Advisor is contradicting the President in the media and while visiting the Israel Prime Minister. So, this is what happens when you make policy on the fly without the benefits of facts or professional analysis. It also shows the folly of supporting this guy when he lies repeatedly.....it can bite you in the butt even when he appears to be doing something that you want and then reneges.
 
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mudslag

macrumors regular
Oct 18, 2010
144
12,444
So you're telling me that "every country on this planet" does not have points of entry designated?

Again points of entry does not equate a wall across it's border to define it's boundary. At no point did I say that countries don't have entry points. Reading comprehension helps, try it sometime.


How many illegal aliens do we have crossing into the US from Canada?

You'ed have to look it up.


And your point about every state in the US not having a wall is very ignorant. That's because all of the lower 50 states are in agreement with each other, living under the common rule of law of the Constitution. The 48 states are all connected. Why do you think you don't have to show your passport here to cross state lines? However, in Europe, you do.


My point about the states was to simply show that borders exist without the need of a fence, just as it also exists with countries. As you pointed out with the states the US, Mexico and Canada also agree where the borders are, so again a wall along the border is not needed to define the border itself.
 

FrenchRoasted

macrumors regular
Sep 21, 2016
215
1,196
Well, I think you hit the nail on the head. This is where we differ. I want a President that operates based on facts, and you apparently don’t care if he lies and creates his own "facts" (which aren't really facts).

But, just wondering. If your President isn’t make decisions based on facts and the best intel/analysis available from top professional in their field (including the military), then how exactly do you expect him to make decisions? Actually, maybe we know the answer to this.....he makes decisions based on what he hears on Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, and conservative conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones.

I recognize that professionals can get it wrong sometimes. But, that is no justification for the way this President operates without regard to facts and the truth. I guess we will have to just agree to disagree.
You don't need "professionals" to inform you if a war is immoral. There were plenty of serious professionals giving us all kinds of reasons why we needed to stay in Vietnam.

BTW - In case you think I am another left wing zombie, I had been a registered Republican for 40 years. My wife is a Republican. My parents are Republicans. My wife's parents are Republicans. My only brother is a Republican.....on and on. By almost any measure on policy issues, I am a raging moderate.....there is just no place for me anymore in the Party of Trump.
This doesn't surprise me in the least. Republicans usually talk a good game about limited government until you say the magic word "war", then all that goes out the window. No war is too big, no budget or "defense" project is too bloated if it involves murdering people around the world.

BTW2 - I have no idea what difference it makes how far away Syria is from the USA. We are fighting a global war on terrorism, of which ISIS is a major player. They have killed US citizens in our country (remember the 49 souls lost in Orlando). Should we not have gone to Pakistan to bring Bin Ladin to justice because it was too far away? During WW2, US troops were all over the globe....Pacific Theater was vast, Middle East, North Africa, Europe.....etc.
Jeebus. The US CIA really DID create ISIS when they funded the "moderate" branch of al-qaeda. Let that sink in. I bet you still think Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.

BTW3 - I suppose you saw on the news today that the President is walking back his timeline for withdrawal of troops, and his National Security Advisor is contradicting the President in the media and while visiting the Israel Prime Minister. So, this is what happens when you make policy on the fly without the benefits of facts or professional analysis. It also shows the folly of supporting this guy when he lies repeatedly.....it can bite you in the butt even when he appears to be doing something that you want and then reneges.
Don't even know what the heck you're trying to say with this. I support progress towards peace, yet this "bites me in the butt"? This isn't a team sport, real lives (not feelings) are on the line. I get it, you love the imperial State, how dare the orange one interfere with it.
 

Mainsail

macrumors 68020
Sep 19, 2010
2,102
2,717
You don't need "professionals" to inform you if a war is immoral. There were plenty of serious professionals giving us all kinds of reasons why we needed to stay in Vietnam.


This doesn't surprise me in the least. Republicans usually talk a good game about limited government until you say the magic word "war", then all that goes out the window. No war is too big, no budget or "defense" project is too bloated if it involves murdering people around the world.


Jeebus. The US CIA really DID create ISIS when they funded the "moderate" branch of al-qaeda. Let that sink in. I bet you still think Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.


Don't even know what the heck you're trying to say with this. I support progress towards peace, yet this "bites me in the butt"? This isn't a team sport, real lives (not feelings) are on the line. I get it, you love the imperial State, how dare the orange one interfere with it.

I think you and I need to wrap this up. Clearly, you have a deep distrusted for governmental agencies and military, and some of this is warranted. I would say that there are also lots of people working in Intel/Defense that are honorable hardworking highly trained professional doing their best and operating without corrupt intent. But, I believe, as a rule, most people want to do the right thing.....

On the other hand, I believe this President has demonstrated time and again that he lies and just makes stuff up. This is what started the whole thread. He consistently says things that are demonstrably untrue and then acts upon them as if they are facts. I see this as very dangerous.

I'll give you the last word.
 

FrenchRoasted

macrumors regular
Sep 21, 2016
215
1,196
I think you and I need to wrap this up. Clearly, you have a deep distrusted for governmental agencies and military, and some of this is warranted. I would say that there are also lots of people working in Intel/Defense that are honorable hardworking highly trained professional doing their best and operating without corrupt intent. But, I believe, as a rule, most people want to do the right thing.....

On the other hand, I believe this President has demonstrated time and again that he lies and just makes stuff up. This is what started the whole thread. He consistently says things that are demonstrably untrue and then acts upon them as if they are facts. I see this as very dangerous.

I'll give you the last word.
I'll take the last word for 600, Alex.
It doesn't matter how honorable or hardworking people are in the CIA or DOD, they are tasked with an immoral and impossible task of being the world police. It cannot work by design. I don't care if Hillary or Jill was elected, if they made moves towards peace (end run around the MIC or not), I would applaud that.
 

hagar

macrumors 68000
Jan 19, 2008
1,554
3,418
Well, this is sort of true but when you have a neighboring country constantly sending shady characters illegally into your country then perhaps it’s time to build that wall. In the old days, major nations and countries did have walls to keep people out. Those walls DID have doors though so you could enter but it wasn’t a free for all.

I still don’t see what’s so bad about a wall between us and Mexico. Save the bleeding heart crap too....tell me why logically it’s not a good idea. Those that want to come here LEGALLY will still be able to. The wall is a deterrent for the low life’s and probably lots of people we don’t want here. I don’t see a problem with it.

Because:
1) most illegals outstay their visa after entering legally through airports, seaports and border crossings. So a wall is useless to keep them out.
2) building a wall costs a sh*tload of money that can better be spend elsewhere like border security, development aid, education, visa checks, etc. That would be much more effective in keeping people out.
3) illegals can fly to Canada and cross from the North. Or take boats. You want a north wall too? And Ocean walls?
4) Most drugs enter through border crossings, because there isn't enough risk to get caught. A wall is useless for that purpose as well.
5) Building a wall will threaten and destroy some unique fauna and flora.

So no, it's not logic to build a wall.
 
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