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Well, this is sort of true but when you have a neighboring country constantly sending shady characters illegally into your country then perhaps it’s time to build that wall. In the old days, major nations and countries did have walls to keep people out. Those walls DID have doors though so you could enter but it wasn’t a free for all.

I still don’t see what’s so bad about a wall between us and Mexico. Save the bleeding heart crap too....tell me why logically it’s not a good idea. Those that want to come here LEGALLY will still be able to. The wall is a deterrent for the low life’s and probably lots of people we don’t want here. I don’t see a problem with it.

Mexico is not SENDING shady characters into your country. That would imply an invasion and grounds for war. Most immigrants are refugees coming from South America. There's a difference between immigrants and refugees.

Also, we know that most come in through official gateways (border crossings, seaports, airports, ...) and outstay their visas. A wall will not prevent this.

Next, finance: it's impossible to build a wall for 5 billion dollars. It will be much much more, and don't forget the ongoing maintenance costs.

Finally, there's the ecological impact. We know this wall will damage some important fauna and flora.

So if you look at this rationally, it's obvious that the money could be spend much more efficiently by investing in other types of border security, visa control, refugee management, development aid, ...

But, when in doubt, why not do a thorough study? Make an independent assessment, and follow its conclusions. It's not that hard to make policy based on facts and science.

Or... make the president keep his promises and let Mexico pay for the wall ;-)
 
I’d expect a lot of juvenile comments on an article like this. Heck, I’m tempted too!

But one thing that people are really overlooking — above and beyond things like the trade war fiasco — is security concerns that many countries have with companies like Huawei. In turn, there is a real pride and anti-western sentiment growing in China. That doesn’t bode well for western companies hoping to sell their goods in the largest consumer market — by, what, nearly an order of magnitude?
 
Do you honestly believe that?

Trump knows 100% that what he is saying is a lie.

He's simply feeding what his followers will consume.
[doublepost=1546725892][/doublepost]

They may not be in trouble, yet, but missing your mark creates doubt about your ability to continue to perform the way people are expecting, which as we saw, causes a marked drop in share price. Apple still has to pay all their employees, all their suppliers, manufacturing partners... If this is just the start of things to come, that's not good.
it'll ebb and flow. High sales one quarter low the next. Im sure apple raised to price due to the fact that they know the people who have purchased their phones will hold onto them longer. The people that are complaining are mostly the frequent upgraders. Utility is the name of the game. I figured this out when i purchased a BEAUTIFUL 2017 MacBook pro only to realize that my 2015 was still good enough to save a couple K.
 
There are some good and true points made by Trump and those around him so he deserves credit where it is due for border security but then double standards is what I don’t like.

The irony from Trump. “Without a border we don’t have a country” is what Trump said. Now while this is true of what he says he picks and chooses when this policy is applicable :rolleyes: . Overseas in The Middle East the Palestinians have asked to have their borders recognized as well but he seems to have double standards when it comes to borders and border security.:rolleyes:
[doublepost=1546735286][/doublepost]

I remember when back in the days my parents bought a house and there was no wall between us and our neighbors. We agreed to put a wall up and split the bill 50/50 with each neighbor. There was a house to the left, to the right and to the back. 3 neighbors in total. Each side split the cost of the wall. This was back in 1979. Neighbors have dogs or pets and no one wants other pets in their backyard. In this case the US has a neighbor with a high number of criminals and many Americans don’t want criminals coming in. I can sort of see how some people support a wall.
Yet the white people up there in Canada have no criminals? But sure, racism has nothing to do with this. lol
 
Mexico is not SENDING shady characters into your country. That would imply an invasion and grounds for war. Most immigrants are refugees coming from South America. There's a difference between immigrants and refugees.

Next, finance: it's impossible to build a wall for 5 billion dollars. It will be much much more, and don't forget the ongoing maintenance costs.

Are you a wall architect for a living or know one you’ve been in advanced talks with concerning this? How can you possibly presume to know the amount required to build a wall?

Also how can you possibly presume to know the characters of strangers you don’t know and have never met, illegally coming into USA? Similarly how can you say you know where all trump supporters are coming from (if you
Do) if you
Haven’t met or engaged with any? That they’re all irredeemable uneducated pieces of Crap? That’s roughly half of this country? Half
This country is into race supremacist group? That math simply doesn’t add up.

Do you also presume no shady characters ever set foot in an apple store either with such definitive ness? If so, why are the devices shackled to the tables with theft sensors? Just to add to the
Marketing appeal?

...is that really how liberals feel? If shady characters are in fact invading our country (some are, at minimum, absolutely), like they have been with the caravan and illegals throwing rocks and inciting violence against our border security, on camera dont just take my word for it, thats what you would call actual grounds for war? Hmm

You’d be the very first liberal I’ve heard to say such a thing. And somehow wouldn’t hold you to it that that’s how you’d feel if you changed your mind about statement of facts that are already out there... But then again you guys hate when trump withdraws our troops bc there is no other explanation but for them to see their families again, and not have to be there, is evil and destructive. There is no consistency in “red lines” for you guys and definitive good acts and bad acts is my primary annoyance, despite rhetoric always indicating otherwise

How offensive is it to lawful legal migrants who came here and went through the process of citizenship, only to have people
Rush the border not pay their full share of
Taxes and go through no process except illegally circumventing that which we have? We can assume, without a Cast of doubt, 100% of people who break the law to come here, because rushing the border is not legal, will lawfully pay their share because they don’t respect a border and our laws but they do respect our much loved tax system? Someone who rips an apple
Product off the table and sprints away, surely will be back in a few days to purchase and pick up a top end MacBook Pro!

...That’s weird illogical leap of faith to make. I’m more concerned about the well being of Mexican Americans finding work here, than illegals who don’t live here. In fact that isn’t our concern at all considering we have tons of homeless vets, and yes still unemployed people who have been discouraged so long they need to get back on their feet. Put your oxygen mask on before assisting others,
Otherwise you cannot assist others.

It’s a privilege not a right to live in USA. If I feel like moving to any country, no matter how great my
Reasons/morality/intentions/passion may be, there is a process. But yet I don’t find that at all irrational racist or unfair. Why is that? We are one of the most generous countries in the world, but we have to have a country. Open borders doesn’t work. Look at Europe. How well is that working out for them? Hillary is concerned about European populism rising BECAUSE of open borders. And it’s Hillary Clinton who’s saying that so that’s something. Don’t you think democrats refusing to acknowledge national security is having some impact on people “fleeing” their party? They’ll find out

I know some (lawful migrants) and they’re mad as hell. More than these “racist” trump supporters

Why do liberals roll their eyes at and negative past clips
Of Bill Clinton and Barack Obama saying themselves we need border security and we cannot let illegals pour into our country? How is that not considered any longer but when cheetoh says the same thing, it’s as racist as humanly
Possible? Where is the distinction? Is it because he means action, and previous presidents didnt? It boils down to a preference of cult of personality and emotions rather than objectivity all too often, imo. Blinded by hate of
One man. And potentially all his supporters. Some make a distinction many don’t though The media has successfully convinced people that half of their fellow brethren are their sworn enemies. Seen that vape
Shop screeching dude refuse to sell a customer a vape! He wanted to pay, remained civil, offered to not upload the video if he could just pay
For the vape and leave. And the vape
Employee was ballistic and literally screeching worse than a baby! That sorta stuff is tolerance?

Why don’t you guys have any self awareness that coming from a place
Of
24/7 passionate emotional long winded vitriol isn’t at all love or anything resembling it. It’s 24/7 hate. No matter how morally justified you feel.

Liberal idealism and them insisting every issue is black and white and no room for discussion, is exhausting and not a good way to convince anyone not already convinced in and bought into the liberal cult, that it’s a sound argument, and we should
Walk away from not liberalism. In fact people
Walking away from the Democratic Party in DROVES! All walks of life not just the racist rednecks you depict as everyone who isn’t you. This will blow your mind but there are many Obama supporters or previous supporters who voted trump. I personally know some. After 8 years of coddling sound bites and no action on anything some rose above and put 2 and 2 together to realize speeches and skits aren’t everything. To be fair, they aren’t really even ANYTHING
 
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Reactions: ucfgrad93
I’m Sure Apple is now on the verge of bankruptcy lol
It's no wonder why Trump feels a kinship with Apple. He thinks they're about to join his exclusive bankruptcy club.
[doublepost=1546792642][/doublepost]
Are you a wall architect for a living or know one you’ve been in advanced talks with concerning this? How can you possibly presume to know the amount required to build a wall?

Also how can you possibly presume to know the characters of strangers you don’t know and have never met, illegally coming into USA? Similarly how can you say you know where all trump supporters are coming from (if you
Do) if you
Haven’t met or engaged with any? That they’re all irredeemable uneducated pieces of Crap? That’s roughly half of this country? Half
This country is into race supremacist group? That math simply doesn’t add up.

Do you also presume no shady characters ever set foot in an apple store either with such definitive ness? If so, why are the devices shackled to the tables with theft sensors? Just to add to the
Marketing appeal?

...is that really how liberals feel? If shady characters are in fact invading our country (some are, at minimum, absolutely), like they have been with the caravan and illegals throwing rocks and inciting violence against our border security, on camera dont just take my word for it, thats what you would call actual grounds for war? Hmm

You’d be the very first liberal I’ve heard to say such a thing. And somehow wouldn’t hold you to it that that’s how you’d feel if you changed your mind about statement of facts that are already out there... But then again you guys hate when trump withdraws our troops bc there is no other explanation but for them to see their families again, and not have to be there, is evil and destructive. There is no consistency in “red lines” for you guys and definitive good acts and bad acts is my primary annoyance, despite rhetoric always indicating otherwise

How offensive is it to lawful legal migrants who came here and went through the process of citizenship, only to have people
Rush the border not pay their full share of
Taxes and go through no process except illegally circumventing that which we have? We can assume, without a Cast of doubt, 100% of people who break the law to come here, because rushing the border is not legal, will lawfully pay their share because they don’t respect a border and our laws but they do respect our much loved tax system? Someone who rips an apple
Product off the table and sprints away, surely will be back in a few days to purchase and pick up a top end MacBook Pro!

...That’s weird illogical leap of faith to make. I’m more concerned about the well being of Mexican Americans finding work here, than illegals who don’t live here. In fact that isn’t our concern at all considering we have tons of homeless vets, and yes still unemployed people who have been discouraged so long they need to get back on their feet. Put your oxygen mask on before assisting others,
Otherwise you cannot assist others.

It’s a privilege not a right to live in USA. If I feel like moving to any country, no matter how great my
Reasons/morality/intentions/passion may be, there is a process. But yet I don’t find that at all irrational racist or unfair. Why is that? We are one of the most generous countries in the world, but we have to have a country. Open borders doesn’t work. Look at Europe. How well is that working out for them? Hillary is concerned about European populism rising BECAUSE of open borders. And it’s Hillary Clinton who’s saying that so that’s something. Don’t you think democrats refusing to acknowledge national security is having some impact on people “fleeing” their party? They’ll find out

I know some (lawful migrants) and they’re mad as hell. More than these “racist” trump supporters

Why do liberals roll their eyes at and negative past clips
Of Bill Clinton and Barack Obama saying themselves we need border security and we cannot let illegals pour into our country? How is that not considered any longer but when cheetoh says the same thing, it’s as racist as humanly
Possible? Where is the distinction? Is it because he means action, and previous presidents didnt? It boils down to a preference of cult of personality and emotions rather than objectivity all too often, imo. Blinded by hate of
One man. And potentially all his supporters. Some make a distinction many don’t though The media has successfully convinced people that half of their fellow brethren are their sworn enemies. Seen that vape
Shop screeching dude refuse to sell a customer a vape! He wanted to pay, remained civil, offered to not upload the video if he could just pay
For the vape and leave. And the vape
Employee was ballistic and literally screeching worse than a baby! That sorta stuff is tolerance?

Why don’t you guys have any self awareness that coming from a place
Of
24/7 passionate emotional long winded vitriol isn’t at all love or anything resembling it. It’s 24/7 hate. No matter how morally justified you feel.

Liberal idealism and them insisting every issue is black and white and no room for discussion, is exhausting and not a good way to convince anyone not already convinced in and bought into the liberal cult, that it’s a sound argument, and we should
Walk away from not liberalism. In fact people
Walking away from the Democratic Party in DROVES! All walks of life not just the racist rednecks you depict as everyone who isn’t you. This will blow your mind but there are many Obama supporters or previous supporters who voted trump. I personally know some. After 8 years of coddling sound bites and no action on anything some rose above and put 2 and 2 together to realize speeches and skits aren’t everything. To be fair, they aren’t really even ANYTHING
Your comment is like speed reading through a tabloid magazine. I picked out 4 untruths in a quick scan and then another 2 more half truths in another scan. No time to reply. Got a life. Bye.
 
It's no wonder why Trump feels a kinship with Apple. He thinks they're about to join his exclusive bankruptcy club.
[doublepost=1546792642][/doublepost]
Your comment is like speed reading through a tabloid magazine. I picked out 4 untruths in a quick scan and then another 2 more half truths in another scan. No time to reply. Got a life. Bye.

That’s not an argument

And your post about him “about to” go bankrupt is absurd. Wasn’t he supposedly getting rich off this whole presidency thing, it was a get rich quick scam, despite all media against him, his family smeared 24/7, and not making a salary as president compared to what he’s used to, (since he wasn’t just a useless and of his own admission, failure of a community organizer like the previous guy) vs. going back to what he knows best which is business (...where’s your name on a hotel building, or your face on television, wigby)? Now that pettiness has been dropped like a lock, free of responsibility or ownership that it was ever yours, and now the argument is... he’s going bankrupt? Wishful thinking. The tides always shift. Hard to pin you guys to any one thing, because you don’t keep at it with any sense of consistency.


You guys have nothing to present or examine that has already occurred, with any sense of rationality and fairness, and definitely no real coherent argument ever, so you obsess about doom and gloom in the future. Who can argue with your hypothetical never ending future scenarios? Is that an arguable stance? And When it doesn’t happen, when you guys pinpoint a time and date, you say “who cares why you obsessed about this issue I was obsessed with and then dropped like it didn’t happen and turned it around on you.” You’re acting irrationally, so how can we expect to have a rational conversation? *That* is an irrational thing to assume can and will happen.

Predictable and childish. “No time to reply. Got a life. Bye.” Lol. You are ridiculous. Reeeeeeeee along now. Freakish loser like mentality. Go sulk in your own self propagated anger. And blame orange man for your hate because he is crude. Totally Like a man baby. A carbon copy of one.

Rather than say nothing (which would Actually be smart, because your arrogance and lack of knowledge on anything forbids you from saying ‘you know what you make some decent points but i contest a b and c Because d e and f’ but I will take your comment of freaking out as pure flattery) because you got nothing, you go “i picked out 4 untruths in a quick scan, 2 more, but not gonna follow up”

... is that pathetic behavior or what? is anyone convinced you just wrecked it with your follow up? The fact that you have no clue or self awareness that’s pathetic, is pathetic!


I asked a lot of questions (In fact I would say I posted more questions than points which lent itself to self evident points) in my post you quoted, yet you could not answer one. I am impressed!
 
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This thread has been great for helping me pre-block a lot of members I will never want to read any opinions from in the future.
 
  • Like
Reactions: thadoggfather
If you get a good neighbor he will split the cost of the wall with him but if you get a bad neighbor he will not split the cost of a wall with him and an even worse neighbor will protest and object to you putting up a wall.
Wrong.
 
This thread has been great for helping me pre-block a lot of members I will never want to read any opinions from in the future.

I love these posts. Virtue signaling the silent mode. Like feeling an unnecessarily large victory for using the downvote button on reddit. Exercising your constitutional rights to thicken the echo chambers.

Seal Clap
 
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That’s not an argument

And your post about him “about to” go bankrupt is absurd. Wasn’t he supposedly getting rich off this whole presidency thing, it was a get rich quick scam, despite all media against him, his family smeared 24/7, and not making a salary as president compared to what he’s used to, (since he wasn’t just a useless and of his own admission, failure of a community organizer like the previous guy) vs. going back to what he knows best which is business (...where’s your name on a hotel building, or your face on television, wigby)? Now that pettiness has been dropped like a lock, free of responsibility or ownership that it was ever yours, and now the argument is... he’s going bankrupt? Wishful thinking. The tides always shift. Hard to pin you guys to any one thing, because you don’t keep at it with any sense of consistency.


You guys have nothing to present or examine that has already occurred, with any sense of rationality and fairness, and definitely no real coherent argument ever, so you obsess about doom and gloom in the future. Who can argue with your hypothetical never ending future scenarios? Is that an arguable stance? And When it doesn’t happen, when you guys pinpoint a time and date, you say “who cares why you obsessed about this issue I was obsessed with and then dropped like it didn’t happen and turned it around on you.” You’re acting irrationally, so how can we expect to have a rational conversation? *That* is an irrational thing to assume can and will happen.

Predictable and childish. “No time to reply. Got a life. Bye.” Lol. You are ridiculous. Reeeeeeeee along now. Freakish loser like mentality. Go sulk in your own self propagated anger. And blame orange man for your hate because he is crude. Totally Like a man baby. A carbon copy of one.

Rather than say nothing (which would Actually be smart, because your arrogance and lack of knowledge on anything forbids you from saying ‘you know what you make some decent points but i contest a b and c Because d e and f’ but I will take your comment of freaking out as pure flattery) because you got nothing, you go “i picked out 4 untruths in a quick scan, 2 more, but not gonna follow up”

... is that pathetic behavior or what? is anyone convinced you just wrecked it with your follow up? The fact that you have no clue or self awareness that’s pathetic, is pathetic!


I asked a lot of questions (In fact I would say I posted more questions than points which lent itself to self evident points) in my post you quoted, yet you could not answer one. I am impressed!
Just read your first line and already you got it wrong. Trump has bankrupted 8 companies, not about to go bankrupt. He's also not a billionaire according to...every billionaire ever asked that question. Not going to bother reading the rest of your response. Byeeee.
 
Except the amount of those jobs would pale in comparison to the amount of jobs lost to the robots that replace them.
[doublepost=1546702461][/doublepost]


Not really. It takes an entire factory with hundreds of employees to build one robot. Each component of the robot requires another factory. See where I’m going with this? If these factories that produce cams, arms, fixtures, etc are located in the US, then even better. Transportation of these parts is needed as well as the man power of maintenance and installation jobs.

It likely took thousands of jobs to create and implement one warehouse floor robot that Amazon used to supplement (maybe replace) a handful of employees.
 
Are you a wall architect for a living or know one you’ve been in advanced talks with concerning this? How can you possibly presume to know the amount required to build a wall?

Also how can you possibly presume to know the characters of strangers you don’t know and have never met, illegally coming into USA? Similarly how can you say you know where all trump supporters are coming from (if you
Do) if you
Haven’t met or engaged with any? That they’re all irredeemable uneducated pieces of Crap? That’s roughly half of this country? Half
This country is into race supremacist group? That math simply doesn’t add up.

Do you also presume no shady characters ever set foot in an apple store either with such definitive ness? If so, why are the devices shackled to the tables with theft sensors? Just to add to the
Marketing appeal?

...is that really how liberals feel? If shady characters are in fact invading our country (some are, at minimum, absolutely), like they have been with the caravan and illegals throwing rocks and inciting violence against our border security, on camera dont just take my word for it, thats what you would call actual grounds for war? Hmm

You’d be the very first liberal I’ve heard to say such a thing. And somehow wouldn’t hold you to it that that’s how you’d feel if you changed your mind about statement of facts that are already out there... But then again you guys hate when trump withdraws our troops bc there is no other explanation but for them to see their families again, and not have to be there, is evil and destructive. There is no consistency in “red lines” for you guys and definitive good acts and bad acts is my primary annoyance, despite rhetoric always indicating otherwise

How offensive is it to lawful legal migrants who came here and went through the process of citizenship, only to have people
Rush the border not pay their full share of
Taxes and go through no process except illegally circumventing that which we have? We can assume, without a Cast of doubt, 100% of people who break the law to come here, because rushing the border is not legal, will lawfully pay their share because they don’t respect a border and our laws but they do respect our much loved tax system? Someone who rips an apple
Product off the table and sprints away, surely will be back in a few days to purchase and pick up a top end MacBook Pro!

...That’s weird illogical leap of faith to make. I’m more concerned about the well being of Mexican Americans finding work here, than illegals who don’t live here. In fact that isn’t our concern at all considering we have tons of homeless vets, and yes still unemployed people who have been discouraged so long they need to get back on their feet. Put your oxygen mask on before assisting others,
Otherwise you cannot assist others.

It’s a privilege not a right to live in USA. If I feel like moving to any country, no matter how great my
Reasons/morality/intentions/passion may be, there is a process. But yet I don’t find that at all irrational racist or unfair. Why is that? We are one of the most generous countries in the world, but we have to have a country. Open borders doesn’t work. Look at Europe. How well is that working out for them? Hillary is concerned about European populism rising BECAUSE of open borders. And it’s Hillary Clinton who’s saying that so that’s something. Don’t you think democrats refusing to acknowledge national security is having some impact on people “fleeing” their party? They’ll find out

I know some (lawful migrants) and they’re mad as hell. More than these “racist” trump supporters

Why do liberals roll their eyes at and negative past clips
Of Bill Clinton and Barack Obama saying themselves we need border security and we cannot let illegals pour into our country? How is that not considered any longer but when cheetoh says the same thing, it’s as racist as humanly
Possible? Where is the distinction? Is it because he means action, and previous presidents didnt? It boils down to a preference of cult of personality and emotions rather than objectivity all too often, imo. Blinded by hate of
One man. And potentially all his supporters. Some make a distinction many don’t though The media has successfully convinced people that half of their fellow brethren are their sworn enemies. Seen that vape
Shop screeching dude refuse to sell a customer a vape! He wanted to pay, remained civil, offered to not upload the video if he could just pay
For the vape and leave. And the vape
Employee was ballistic and literally screeching worse than a baby! That sorta stuff is tolerance?

Why don’t you guys have any self awareness that coming from a place
Of
24/7 passionate emotional long winded vitriol isn’t at all love or anything resembling it. It’s 24/7 hate. No matter how morally justified you feel.

Liberal idealism and them insisting every issue is black and white and no room for discussion, is exhausting and not a good way to convince anyone not already convinced in and bought into the liberal cult, that it’s a sound argument, and we should
Walk away from not liberalism. In fact people
Walking away from the Democratic Party in DROVES! All walks of life not just the racist rednecks you depict as everyone who isn’t you. This will blow your mind but there are many Obama supporters or previous supporters who voted trump. I personally know some. After 8 years of coddling sound bites and no action on anything some rose above and put 2 and 2 together to realize speeches and skits aren’t everything. To be fair, they aren’t really even ANYTHING

Thanks for replying to my post. It’s the longest reply I ever got and I’m glad I struck a cord. I would love to reply back to you, but I honestly don’t know where to start. Because I have absolutely no idea what you’re saying.

All I’m suggesting is if your government plans on spending 5+ billion dollar on a project, it might as well make a thorough and independent fact and science based study before starting. Wouldn’t you agree that’s more efficient and rational than following the gut feeling of the Big Orange leader? If the study shows he’s right, good for you. If he’s wrong, than do other stuff to protect your borders.

Btw Democrats don’t want open borders either. Nobody in the USA wants open borders. Democrats are right wing and Republicans are far right. You almost have no left wing politicians.

Also, don’t forget, many refugees are fleeing their countries from war and poverty. The USA has a historic depth to many of these countries for interfering with their elections, getting rid of democratically elected regimes, starting wars, supplying regimes with weapons, etc. If you want to police the world, you better deal with the consequences as well.

Mind you, I’m talking about the USA now, but obviously many European countries have similar historic depths.
 
Are you a wall architect for a living or know one you’ve been in advanced talks with concerning this? How can you possibly presume to know the amount required to build a wall?

Also how can you possibly presume to know the characters of strangers you don’t know and have never met, illegally coming into USA? Similarly how can you say you know where all trump supporters are coming from (if you
Do) if you
Haven’t met or engaged with any? That they’re all irredeemable uneducated pieces of Crap? That’s roughly half of this country? Half
This country is into race supremacist group? That math simply doesn’t add up.

Do you also presume no shady characters ever set foot in an apple store either with such definitive ness? If so, why are the devices shackled to the tables with theft sensors? Just to add to the
Marketing appeal?

...is that really how liberals feel? If shady characters are in fact invading our country (some are, at minimum, absolutely), like they have been with the caravan and illegals throwing rocks and inciting violence against our border security, on camera dont just take my word for it, thats what you would call actual grounds for war? Hmm

You’d be the very first liberal I’ve heard to say such a thing. And somehow wouldn’t hold you to it that that’s how you’d feel if you changed your mind about statement of facts that are already out there... But then again you guys hate when trump withdraws our troops bc there is no other explanation but for them to see their families again, and not have to be there, is evil and destructive. There is no consistency in “red lines” for you guys and definitive good acts and bad acts is my primary annoyance, despite rhetoric always indicating otherwise

How offensive is it to lawful legal migrants who came here and went through the process of citizenship, only to have people
Rush the border not pay their full share of
Taxes and go through no process except illegally circumventing that which we have? We can assume, without a Cast of doubt, 100% of people who break the law to come here, because rushing the border is not legal, will lawfully pay their share because they don’t respect a border and our laws but they do respect our much loved tax system? Someone who rips an apple
Product off the table and sprints away, surely will be back in a few days to purchase and pick up a top end MacBook Pro!

...That’s weird illogical leap of faith to make. I’m more concerned about the well being of Mexican Americans finding work here, than illegals who don’t live here. In fact that isn’t our concern at all considering we have tons of homeless vets, and yes still unemployed people who have been discouraged so long they need to get back on their feet. Put your oxygen mask on before assisting others,
Otherwise you cannot assist others.

It’s a privilege not a right to live in USA. If I feel like moving to any country, no matter how great my
Reasons/morality/intentions/passion may be, there is a process. But yet I don’t find that at all irrational racist or unfair. Why is that? We are one of the most generous countries in the world, but we have to have a country. Open borders doesn’t work. Look at Europe. How well is that working out for them? Hillary is concerned about European populism rising BECAUSE of open borders. And it’s Hillary Clinton who’s saying that so that’s something. Don’t you think democrats refusing to acknowledge national security is having some impact on people “fleeing” their party? They’ll find out

I know some (lawful migrants) and they’re mad as hell. More than these “racist” trump supporters

Why do liberals roll their eyes at and negative past clips
Of Bill Clinton and Barack Obama saying themselves we need border security and we cannot let illegals pour into our country? How is that not considered any longer but when cheetoh says the same thing, it’s as racist as humanly
Possible? Where is the distinction? Is it because he means action, and previous presidents didnt? It boils down to a preference of cult of personality and emotions rather than objectivity all too often, imo. Blinded by hate of
One man. And potentially all his supporters. Some make a distinction many don’t though The media has successfully convinced people that half of their fellow brethren are their sworn enemies. Seen that vape
Shop screeching dude refuse to sell a customer a vape! He wanted to pay, remained civil, offered to not upload the video if he could just pay
For the vape and leave. And the vape
Employee was ballistic and literally screeching worse than a baby! That sorta stuff is tolerance?

Why don’t you guys have any self awareness that coming from a place
Of
24/7 passionate emotional long winded vitriol isn’t at all love or anything resembling it. It’s 24/7 hate. No matter how morally justified you feel.

Liberal idealism and them insisting every issue is black and white and no room for discussion, is exhausting and not a good way to convince anyone not already convinced in and bought into the liberal cult, that it’s a sound argument, and we should
Walk away from not liberalism. In fact people
Walking away from the Democratic Party in DROVES! All walks of life not just the racist rednecks you depict as everyone who isn’t you. This will blow your mind but there are many Obama supporters or previous supporters who voted trump. I personally know some. After 8 years of coddling sound bites and no action on anything some rose above and put 2 and 2 together to realize speeches and skits aren’t everything. To be fair, they aren’t really even ANYTHING

Wow. Speaking of walls,,,, I've now definitely been outclassed as to walls of text. Here is my crown, please take it as it's clear you'd deserve it if you'd only had time to flesh out more of the flight of ideas in that post. See you around, big maybe.

Wall O Text Crown.jpg
 
Well, this is sort of true but when you have a neighboring country constantly sending shady characters illegally into your country then perhaps it’s time to build that wall. In the old days, major nations and countries did have walls to keep people out. Those walls DID have doors though so you could enter but it wasn’t a free for all.

I still don’t see what’s so bad about a wall between us and Mexico. Save the bleeding heart crap too....tell me why logically it’s not a good idea. Those that want to come here LEGALLY will still be able to. The wall is a deterrent for the low life’s and probably lots of people we don’t want here. I don’t see a problem with it.

Let's see...

Border security is just one part of immigration reform and no one seems willing to show all their cards on a comprehensive reform. This is due in large part to the fact that assorted industry segments not only depend on but prefer having a supply of cheap, disposable labor that can't afford to talk back, take a sick day, etc etc. Those industries are huge contributors to congressional re-election campaigns.

The USA has yet to have an honest national dialogue about the changes that reform of imported labor will have on our economy. Those changes include higher price of groceries (and the possibility of temporary subsidies to food retailers) but also related offsets via improved spending in local economies and higher tax revenues: some but not all immigrant labor wage taxes are currently withheld from paychecks, some of it is never turned into the government by companies who do withhold the taxes, and a lot of it never gets distributed as social safety net payouts either since the taxed workers may be using fake Social Security numbers and so cannot file for benefits.

All that and more currently gets shoved under the table in favor of scare mongering about drug gangs, jobs stolen by "real Americans", drains on social safety nets etc. Anyone can find a newspaper clipping to point out criminality of an undocumented immigrant... It's a little more work to find out net economic impact of underpaid illegal laborers with no recourse to our anti-discrimation laws...

Are there valid points to be made by those in favor of the Wall? Certainly, but the Wall that Trump promises is not a practical solution. Proponents of a wall would do better to agitate for real immigration reform. That would result in less winking and nodding about some of the financial shenanigans around illegal immigration that still goes on with approval by companies who hire that labor preferentially.

The trend can and does shift, but on balance net immigration from Mexico has been negative since 2007. Recovery of the global economy and what we've been doing to work with Mexican and Central American economies to develop labor forces that meet our skill requirements and work in place instead of immigrating here are both relevant. Trump claims it's more recent and just because of his NAFTA replacement efforts, but as usual he does not know what he's talking about.

Migration of other species becomes more problematic, not only for the affected animals but for the wall project itself since a number of conservation and environmental protection NGOs and private citizens enraged over eminent domain takeovers suggested by Trump will have it in court for decades.

Expense on a scale of justifiability vs other pressing needs puts building a wall near the bottom of federally funded projects... as Congress has repeatedly indicated. They've said "No!" even on his own side for a variety of good reasons, several times, so you'd think even Trump would get it, but then his side of the aisle still hasn't got a grip on his shirt collar or for that matter on their own caucuses in the House, as witness lately his suggestion he might declare a national emergency and shut down the whole border... which is probably illegal or at least an abuse of power.

Hate to mention it again but Trump said Mexico would pay for it before checking with Mexico, which situation has generated a series of more or less amusing or obscene ripostes from at least former prez Vicente Fox... and somewhat more decorous remarks from successor Peña Nieto and from the current president Lopez Obrador, who noted in December of 2018 that he has discussed immigration but not 'the wall' with the US president.

Finally, "The Wall" is thoroughly impractical, as noted in a stunning article by Dennis Wagner, Emmanual Lozano and Laura Gomez of the Arizona Republic published in USA Today:

 
Let's see...

Border security is just one part of immigration reform and no one seems willing to show all their cards on a comprehensive reform. This is due in large part to the fact that assorted industry segments not only depend on but prefer having a supply of cheap, disposable labor that can't afford to talk back, take a sick day, etc etc. Those industries are huge contributors to congressional re-election campaigns.

The USA has yet to have an honest national dialogue about the changes that reform of imported labor will have on our economy. Those changes include higher price of groceries (and the possibility of temporary subsidies to food retailers) but also related offsets via improved spending in local economies and higher tax revenues: some but not all immigrant labor wage taxes are currently withheld from paychecks, some of it is never turned into the government by companies who do withhold the taxes, and a lot of it never gets distributed as social safety net payouts either since the taxed workers may be using fake Social Security numbers and so cannot file for benefits.

All that and more currently gets shoved under the table in favor of scare mongering about drug gangs, jobs stolen by "real Americans", drains on social safety nets etc. Anyone can find a newspaper clipping to point out criminality of an undocumented immigrant... It's a little more work to find out net economic impact of underpaid illegal laborers with no recourse to our anti-discrimation laws...

Are there valid points to be made by those in favor of the Wall? Certainly, but the Wall that Trump promises is not a practical solution. Proponents of a wall would do better to agitate for real immigration reform. That would result in less winking and nodding about some of the financial shenanigans around illegal immigration that still goes on with approval by companies who hire that labor preferentially.

The trend can and does shift, but on balance net immigration from Mexico has been negative since 2007. Recovery of the global economy and what we've been doing to work with Mexican and Central American economies to develop labor forces that meet our skill requirements and work in place instead of immigrating here are both relevant. Trump claims it's more recent and just because of his NAFTA replacement efforts, but as usual he does not know what he's talking about.

Migration of other species becomes more problematic, not only for the affected animals but for the wall project itself since a number of conservation and environmental protection NGOs and private citizens enraged over eminent domain takeovers suggested by Trump will have it in court for decades.

Expense on a scale of justifiability vs other pressing needs puts building a wall near the bottom of federally funded projects... as Congress has repeatedly indicated. They've said "No!" even on his own side for a variety of good reasons, several times, so you'd think even Trump would get it, but then his side of the aisle still hasn't got a grip on his shirt collar or for that matter on their own caucuses in the House, as witness lately his suggestion he might declare a national emergency and shut down the whole border... which is probably illegal or at least an abuse of power.

Hate to mention it again but Trump said Mexico would pay for it before checking with Mexico, which situation has generated a series of more or less amusing or obscene ripostes from at least former prez Vicente Fox... and somewhat more decorous remarks from successor Peña Nieto and from the current president Lopez Obrador, who noted in December of 2018 that he has discussed immigration but not 'the wall' with the US president.

Finally, "The Wall" is thoroughly impractical, as noted in a stunning article by Dennis Wagner, Emmanual Lozano and Laura Gomez of the Arizona Republic published in USA Today:


I was just looking at that image for where the border wall would need fo go. It is pretty long. There are a few ways of looking at it though. Would be like having a highway or railroad system from point A to point B. This is something governments normally provide for their own citizens or their own security boundaries like a wall around one’s house.

Perhaps put it up in key locations only for a start.. Sometimes I think of it also as a wall or barrier in freeways that keep cars from opposite of freeway traveling in opposite direction from coming on head into your lane.
 
I was just looking at that image for where the border wall would need fo go. It is pretty long. There are a few ways of looking at it though. Would be like having a highway or railroad system from point A to point B. This is something governments normally provide for their own citizens or their own security boundaries like a wall around one’s house.

Perhaps put it up in key locations only for a start.. Sometimes I think of it also as a wall or barrier in freeways that keep cars from opposite of freeway traveling in opposite direction from coming on head into your lane.

I read your post with interest, but I also read it as a former New Yorker who understood for a very very long time that the fabled Second Avenue Subway line would be open "real soon now" way back in the 1960s when I first landed in the city. Digging for the first phase of it (discounting an earlier effort that was abandoned in the 70s when the city nearly went bankrupt in a recession) began in 2007, well after I had retired and left town!

In fact that line was proposed way back in 1929 (and every decade after that except for the 1980s), and a 1.5 mile stretch of it finally opened not long ago after a ten-year construction period.

That's right, ten years for 1.5 miles of track, and three new subway stations. The rest of it amounts to about 7.5 more miles and a bunch more stations to be done in three more phases, yeah, more phases... and more billions. Total cost is now estimated at around $17 billion, but some of that's way down the road so it's a fairly phantom number. Unfortunately the skinny on even the next round of billions looks like this:

The state and city are now facing a major dilemma about beginning the second stage to 125 Street. The MTA is facing a massive $14 billion hole in its five-year capital program and already has over $34 billion in outstanding debt even before it begins the next phase of the Second Avenue. The MTA cannot afford to continue building the new line without outside financial help.​

So even barring legislative and judicial difficulties "The Wall" at the southern border sounds like pretty much of a crock to me. Not even as good a crock as the Second Avenue subway, which actually if ever completed will serve a fairly practical purpose of getting hundreds of thousands of people transported between Brooklyn and the upper tip of Manhattan twice a day without all the hassle that that such a fraught experience currently provides.

Maybe Tim Cook should give up on iPhones and invest some billions in rapid transit for NYC. Who knows, the city might give him some tax bennies and let him build a Cupertino East while Apple waits for its next great vision to come from the mind of some designer and land on a greenlit Apple drawing board.
 
I read your post with interest, but I also read it as a former New Yorker who understood for a very very long time that the fabled Second Avenue Subway line would be open "real soon now" way back in the 1960s when I first landed in the city. Digging for the first phase of it (discounting an earlier effort that was abandoned in the 70s when the city nearly went bankrupt in a recession) began in 2007, well after I had retired and left town!

In fact that line was proposed way back in 1929 (and every decade after that except for the 1980s), and a 1.5 mile stretch of it finally opened not long ago after a ten-year construction period.

That's right, ten years for 1.5 miles of track, and three new subway stations. The rest of it amounts to about 7.5 more miles and a bunch more stations to be done in three more phases, yeah, more phases... and more billions. Total cost is now estimated at around $17 billion, but some of that's way down the road so it's a fairly phantom number. Unfortunately the skinny on even the next round of billions looks like this:

The state and city are now facing a major dilemma about beginning the second stage to 125 Street. The MTA is facing a massive $14 billion hole in its five-year capital program and already has over $34 billion in outstanding debt even before it begins the next phase of the Second Avenue. The MTA cannot afford to continue building the new line without outside financial help.​

So even barring legislative and judicial difficulties "The Wall" at the southern border sounds like pretty much of a crock to me. Not even as good a crock as the Second Avenue subway, which actually if ever completed will serve a fairly practical purpose of getting hundreds of thousands of people transported between Brooklyn and the upper tip of Manhattan twice a day without all the hassle that that such a fraught experience currently provides.

Maybe Tim Cook should give up on iPhones and invest some billions in rapid transit for NYC. Who knows, the city might give him some tax bennies and let him build a Cupertino East while Apple waits for its next great vision to come from the mind of some designer and land on a greenlit Apple drawing board.

When the government needs money they can print money and always have done so. When we need money we either have to work for it or borrow it from the government and pay them back with interest. If we print we go to jail. Many countries around the world printed to get things done and they work quite well. In many parts of Asia the transport system is good. Yes it cost them a lot of money but they will recoup it and profit from it.

I am half half on the wall thing but to be fair and neutral I can see some of Trump’s points of view on needing a wall for security. I don’t like Trump and don’t agree with him on most of the things he says but some things he has a point on. In my opinion US infrastructure is really really lagging behind other countries from poor roads,poor freeways,poor highways, poor public transport systems, outdated airports,etc.. The border issue does seem to be some sort of issue. Hard to deny that there is no issue. How he deals with it though is another story.
 
I love these posts. Virtue signaling the silent mode. Like feeling an unnecessarily large victory for using the downvote button on reddit. Exercising your constitutional rights to thicken the echo chambers.

Seal Clap

I wonder if you will ever see the tragic irony of virtually every political post you make. I doubt it, but one hopes eventually you do.
 
It may be unrelated, but its a coincidence China is Apple's biggest market...



lol.. i get it.

The market for the iPhone or Apple is not just the US and one should not look down on so called poor countries like China,India and Africa. If only 25% of each of their population bought or could afford to buy iPhones or Apple products that would be close to the equivalent of Everyone in America being able to buy one. Population numbers play a big role. Even if half or 75% of their people could not afford one it only takes 1/4 or 30% to make a difference. Then again in countries like that people are quite price conscious too so the 5% of the very welll off people can fork out $1200-1600 for a new iPhone but at these prices when they are the same as some laptop prices or above laptop prices they will not be buying new smartphones every year.
 
Not really. It takes an entire factory with hundreds of employees to build one robot. Each component of the robot requires another factory. See where I’m going with this? If these factories that produce cams, arms, fixtures, etc are located in the US, then even better. Transportation of these parts is needed as well as the man power of maintenance and installation jobs.

It likely took thousands of jobs to create and implement one warehouse floor robot that Amazon used to supplement (maybe replace) a handful of employees.



It's true it will take some amount of people to build the robots but the idea that it needs hundreds isn't necessarily true. Just as it isn't necessarily true that you need a separate factory for each component. One factory is more then capable of producing multiple parts. And as pointed out by the following post, once a robot is complete, it can work and produce for many years at a scale far faster and more efficient than it's human counterpart. It is possible for a small factory of robots to outperform an entire factory of human workers making the majority human element obsolete.

This has already been an issue in the automotive assembly line manufacturing and electronic industries where robots can replace x number of people who can do the job faster, better and cheaper. The move is also happening in the transportation business with auto driving long haul trucks and soon to be auto driving cabs. We are even seeing humans being replaced in retail like McDonalds and Amazon Go stores with computerized ordering systems. Those are day to day jobs that are no longer available to people.

And for the argument that it takes thousands to implement a factory, those are limited jobs that are not consistent. Factories dont have exponential growth and cnce those factories are finished, that's it for those in that community that required those jobs.
 
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