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I agree with all three of these points (that I highlighted)!

I used the "dog thing" because that frustrating poster has been repeating that nonsense all over the thread - especially praising USA's education system, college component, when it is not delivering while being ridiculously expensive. The K-12 is free, yes, but very bad with STEM to date.

Forcing USA to still import brain-labor!
K-12 sucks here, but the colleges are the best. And no, fully-tax-supported college is not a good idea. Just encourages the kind of laziness and idgafery K-12 students have (take a look at community colleges). Student debt is a problem with medical school and such, but undergrads always get by even if it means working a part-time job.
 
K-12 sucks here, but the colleges are the best. And no, fully-tax-supported college is not a good idea. Just encourages the kind of laziness and idgafery K-12 students have (take a look at community colleges). Student debt is a problem with medical school and such, but undergrads always get by even if it means working a part-time job.
The colleges are the best? For drinking and sex that is?
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Name One Corporation that does not get City, State, and or Federal Subsidies. The saying, Socialism takes all the risks while Capitalism take all the rewards, true. The way we roll in the USA.
Does Apple get federal subsidies? It should.
 
The colleges are the best? For drinking and sex that is?
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Does Apple get federal subsidies? It should.
Sure they do. Like cities giving away land, infrastructure, tax incentives to build a data center as one example.
 
Do you know what “federal” means?
They give their employees healthcare, correct. A Federal program heavily subsidized since WWII as one example. In fact All employers with healthcare are on a heavily subsidized Federal program. The list is very long and maybe you need to understand the word Federal.
 
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An idiot? That is a little extreme

Following up on my earlier post, if you needed any more proof (you shouldn't), just look at today's news. It would be hilarious if it weren't so damn pathetic and sad.
 
A Federal program heavily subsidized since WWII as one example. In fact All employers with healthcare are on a heavily subsidized Federal program. The list is very long and maybe you need to understand the word Federal.

Subsidies should mean concessions that are specific for a company or a specific group of companies - like oil subsidies for oil exploration that is given to Exxon, Chevron, etc.

The healthcare program is available to every company - no lobbying needed to get it. So is the tax break Drumpf gave to all companies to repatriate money from abroad, even though lobbied. Not the kind of subsidy we are discussing.

The state and city subsidy that Amazon received, or every sporting arena gets is the kind we are focusing on. I am sure Apple is getting something Federal somewhere that is unique to tech research, staying in the USA, or something similar.
 
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We only want engineers and scientists and artist - people that can create value with their minds.

Not completely true, you've left out 'cheap'. Once those "engineers and scientists and artist" become more experienced they become more expensive and get tossed, regardless of their skill. We then replace them with cheaper labor, usually imported from countries with sub par degree-mill educational systems.

New York, Silicon Valley and Hollywood are good examples of the kind of economy the US should be going forward.

California produces almost 15 million barrels of oil per year, and ranks as the #6 US state in annual oil production. Not a bad boost to any economy.

When was the last time anyone bought something designed/made in Russia?

The Soyuz spacecraft has been selling well, considering it's the only craft taking humans to space.
Also, the United Launch Alliance Atlas V uses Russian RD-180 engines for the first stage.
 
Not completely true, you've left out 'cheap'. Once those "engineers and scientists and artist" become more experienced they become more expensive and get tossed, regardless of their skill. We then replace them with cheaper labor, usually imported from countries with sub par degree-mill educational systems.
I know this happens sometimes, but there are also people who don't get tossed and end up becoming leaders. For those who are actually better than the cheap labor but get laid off anyway, I can't feel too worried about an experienced professional not being able to find a job.

Most of my knowledge is in my area, which is software tech. One other thing, there is definitely a shortage here still. I don't think they've found a way to get cheap foreign software engineers who are any good (a bad dev can easily be a net negative), and this is the field that works the best remotely.
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The colleges are the best? For drinking and sex that is?
Mainly for STEM fields. My guess is it's the proximity to industry. People come here for college from all over the world, both directly as international students and indirectly as immigrants. There aren't many STEM fields where you'd ask around and actually get the opinion that college is better elsewhere. The only one I can think of is theoretical math.

I only don't say anything about art school because I don't know about it. If this matters, you get the most artistic freedom here since other places (including Europe) have speech and thought laws.

(Irresponsible) drinking and sex in college: I know it's sad, but it's not a problem for a student who cares about learning. And it seems to happen in proportion to how little the students have to financially support themselves. The trend is decreasing; things were much crazier in the 80s.
 
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You can’t debate by changing the focus of what you originally claimed. Your original argument claimed that because you personally did not notice any material effect on your economic situation, the tariff is then justified at a societal level that impacts other people besides yourself.
I believe you’re replying to the wrong quote. I never changed my argument. Regardless, the tariff on China is absolutely justified.
 
You don't know what you are talking about.
It is absolutely possible to build an iPhone by robots in 2018 if Cook had been smart enough to start building robotic factories in the US back in 2016 when Trump told him so. Apparently, Cook didn't think Trump was being serious.

The first Apple-owned robotic factories would have been making iPhone XS and XS Max by now if Cook didn't waste all this time. And the price of the iPhone may have been lower due to more efficiency and higher productivity that robotic assembly lines provide.
Are you honestly trying to say that trump knows more about how to build iPhones than Tim Cook? WOW.

Just as a reminder, Trump bragged that he sold all his Apple stock on January 28, 2014. Since then, the stock price has more than tripled. So, I'll take my cues on how to make iPhones from Tim Cook rather than Donald Trump.
 
Trump is doing a great job against China.

Drumpf is a first term President, probably will last just that - Xi is for life! Who do you think can play the long game better?

Neither of these dictators care about the temporary or permanent pain that this will cause their people or the global industry.

I am for standing up to China, but not with show and pompousness. The "Art of the Deal" buffoon is all bluster, while fighting for ZTE jobs, so that Ivanka's SE Asia concessions can continue.

If Drumpf wanted to hurt China, he should've/could've started with what was ongoing - the ZTE standoff; apply this across the board to Chinese smartphones and electronics manufacturers.

Edited for PS -

New Zealand just joined Australia in limiting Huawei's access to their infrastructure. If Drumpf did just that with Huawei, ZTE, etc. the Chinese tariffs on USA imports will disappear overnight.

Instead, the humanitarian that he is, Drumpf quoted an inflated number of jobs he was saving in China, while destroying the existing economic balance of the world leading to actual loss of jobs and resources in the rest of the world. We can forget this year's Soy crop already and worry about starting on the next.
 
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Subsidies should mean concessions that are specific for a company or a specific group of companies - like oil subsidies for oil exploration that is given to Exxon, Chevron, etc.

The healthcare program is available to every company - no lobbying needed to get it. So is the tax break Drumpf gave to all companies to repatriate money from abroad, even though lobbied. Not the kind of subsidy we are discussing.

The state and city subsidy that Amazon received, or every sporting arena gets is the kind we are focusing on. I am sure Apple is getting something Federal somewhere that is unique to tech research, staying in the USA, or something similar.

Have to disagree:
What is a 'Subsidy'
A subsidy is a benefit given to an individual, business or institution, usually by the government. It is usually in the form of a cash payment or a tax reduction. The subsidy is typically given to remove some type of burden, and it is often considered to be in the overall interest of the public, given to promote a social good or an economic policy.

Socialism supporting businesses in the name of common good.



Read more: Subsidy Definition | Investopedia https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/subsidy.asp#ixzz5YAYVPpIl
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Have to disagree: What is a 'Subsidy'

A subsidy is a benefit given to an individual, business or institution, usually by the government. It is usually in the form of a cash payment or a tax reduction. The subsidy is typically given to remove some type of burden, and it is often considered to be in the overall interest of the public, given to promote a social good or an economic policy.

Socialism supporting businesses in the name of common good.

Yeah, Yeah, we know what a subsidy is. Read the specifics of the discussion - it was not about dictionary words.

Hate that jump to socialism, so quickly done. How about the corporate welfare handouts, also named subsidy, to Oil, Pharmaceutical, Sports, Military, Entertainment, Automobile, Airline, Aircraft, Yacht-building, and Agricultural giants of the industry?

What burden is removed; what overall public interest is met? The politicians only fill the coffers of about 50-100 people at the top of the pyramid.
 
Seriously? The article says that the Canadian universal healthcare doesn’t cover cosmetic surgeries or dental care. Guess what? Overly expensive US health plans don’t cover either cosmetic or dental care either.

For dental care, Americans have to buy additional dental insurance. Canadians have to do the same - buy private dental insurance. How is the American system better again?

I’ve had to wait for a specialist appointment in the US with a private insurance for over six months too. It’s not unusual to have to wait for a specialist appointment for months in large US cities unless you want to see a “specialist” from a third-world country who practices here on the H1B visa.

When I couldn’t wait due to an acute unless and chose to see an Indian specialist in the US, his treatment almost killed me. I had to wait for an American specialist for months to get proper treatment.

I have a good friend who is a doctor practicing at a US hospital on the Canadian border (literally) in the Buffalo, NY area. He can see Canada out of his office window. The border crossing is less than a mile away. He told me there are fewer than a dozen Canadian patients in his hospital per year. So, Canadians flocking across the border to US hospitals is a myth.
I have a agree with this as a Canadian (with a green card) living California I pay a ridiculous amount for US medical insurance vs taxes in Canada. My Taxes and medical insurance in the US are tens of thousands more in California vs my home province. My coverage is about the same in Canada as the US except in Canada I have no copays or deductibles. Now if I could only convince my wife to quit her job and move back to Canada I would.
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Probably has nothing to do with the junk cars they make, huh?
Not true I sold my unreliable expensive to fix BMW and bought a Chevy Volt -its the the best car I have ever owned - on top on that there is zero to no maintenance and I have spent less than $200.00 this year on gas and have driven it and 10,000 miles. It's 5 years old zero maintenance issues and I am on my second set of tires - that's it. I would by another one in heartbeat.
 
The future doesn’t have to look ugly. You can just as easily put EV internals in a Dodge Charger/Challenger, Audi S5, or for a current actual example, BMW i8. It doesn’t have to look like a Smart Car and a VW Microbus from the 60’s had a rather unfortunate looking lovechild.

Lol. Oh man, couldn’t disagree more. It’s beautiful.

Looks like Audi did basically what I said.

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/11/28/audi-e-tron-gt-design-interview-marc-lichte/#slide-7475754

Now there's a damn sexy EV I'd buy, though it'll probably cost as much as a Model S, so still a no go on the pricing front.
 
For those who are actually better than the cheap labor but get laid off anyway, I can't feel too worried about an experienced professional not being able to find a job.

Experience has become a hindrance to finding jobs in tech. This is why there are so many incompetent "Script Kiddies" working in the industry (because they're cheaper).

And:

Trump's steel tariffs is why GM just laid off everyone.

Congratulations Trump voters, you played yourself.
New York, Silicon Valley and Hollywood are good examples of the kind of economy the US should be going forward.

Trump has decreased the number of H1-B visas, which has directly benefited experienced tech professionals in the job market. While you would never admit it, this is way more important to a Sillicon Valley techie than any one's job in "fly over" county.

Silicon Valley is well known for its level of apathy, no one there really cares about Detroit anyway. GM produces crappy products that NO ONE in Silicon Valley buys anyway.

Silicon Valley apathy also applies to San Francisco and Berkley. Why else would those cities have descended into such disgusting messes? Stepping over human waste has become just another part of the bay area tech life anyway.

Most people in tech take comfort when coworkers get laid off because it decreases workplace competition. This leads to less teamwork and a poor working environment.

In reality, it is normal for people to get used to "stepping over bodies". This is especially true when the persons stepping over were responsible for the knife sticking in the body.

Tech has become a brutal, apathetic industry.
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I know this happens sometimes, but there are also people who don't get tossed and end up becoming leaders.

The definition of leadership in tech has changed drastically. Most end up in those roles not due to their technical skill, but rather their ability to back stab and bully others. They "earned" their positions by the body count they left behind.

Tech attracts sociopaths who excel at the "last man standing" game.
 
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Trump's steel tariffs is why GM just laid off everyone.

Congratulations Trump voters, you played yourself.

The US economy is a globalist one that seeks open borders and free trade. The quicker you understand that, the better off you will be in this country.

Apple is doing exactly that by designing products by brilliant engineers in Silicon Valley, while having them built by cheaper, lower educated people in China.

If a person in China can build something for cheaper than in America, LET THEM - that is economic efficiency. An efficient economy will always win over an corrupt, inefficient one. Americans should only do jobs that only Americans can do, like high-end services jobs. Our economy is based on massive higher-education - the best in the world. No other country has a university system like ours, and we should take advantage of that.

We don't want Americans to perform manual labor that oxen can do. We only want engineers and scientists and artist - people that can create value with their minds.

New York, Silicon Valley and Hollywood are good examples of the kind of economy the US should be going forward.

A good example of complete economic failure is Russia - their economy is entirely based on selling things they find on the ground. When was the last time anyone bought something designed/made in Russia?
Ok, I agree with 9/10ths of what you have to say regarding this situation—YES, Trumpty-Dumb-ty definitely played himself! and the entire U.S.A.'s economy. In short, we're screwed, and we should all expect this to get MUCH worse with significant impacts throughout our economy. The dominoes will fall, farmers will lose their farms to foreclosure, more auto plants will close factories or move them out of country, etc.
And while I also agree that the quality of U.S. products as conceived, designed, and produced here (as in creative media) is integral to our economy, and we do want more of our workforce to work non-Oxen-level jobs(!) LOL...our educational system, which does have some of the best schools, is failing a large percentage of the populace due to our elementary through high school system. If we really want a 'first world' workforce, they need to be educated as such.

That is where countries like China differ from us, they do actually aspire to improve educational resources for all citizens.

As to a corrupt and inefficient economy...well, our current situation (and the recession of 2008-2011) show that we do suffer from both corruption and stupidity at the highest levels. Also, 'efficiency' is part of what keeps wages for lower-skilled and service workers in this country at sub-living standards and requires public assistance to feed people who are working full time jobs (or part-time jobs, since companies SAVE so much MONEY by not hiring folks as full-timers).

As to Russia, I agree entirely. Is there anything out of Russia which is consumed in any other part of the world (excluding expatriate Russians)? and apart from some literature (I mean modern stuff, the classics are of course 'classic' and cannon, so popularity is assured).
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That sound you hear? That's the sound of shareholders running for the hills. Yikes!

I've been wondering if this is the real reason why Apple has been raising prices like crazy lately. They knew this was a possibility.

-- EDIT

I just re-read this article a day later. Does Trump honestly even know what a tariff is? Serious question. Trump's quote for context:



The point of a tariff is to put pressure on China to get a better trade deal, or to move manufacturing of these devices back to the U.S. A tariff would presumably make it less likely for people to buy phones and laptops that are made in China because the company importing them would have to pay the tariff and therefore raise rates.

However, if Trump thinks that "people could stand a 10% tariff very easily", then what's the point of said tariff if it won't accomplish either of the goals of a tariff? His statement says that people are going to keep buying phones and laptops regardless because they can "stand it", so essentially what Trump is doing is making it more expensive for American citizens and businesses to buy these crucial items that they need for personal and work reasons for no reason whatsoever.

Sure, I suppose the government will make some revenue from it, but that is not usually the goal of a tariff as a tariff usually drives down demand over time. By putting a 10% tariff on these goods, he is basically just taxing the American people for the most crucial item they use in their everyday life. It's fine if that's what they want to do, but they should just call it what it is and stop trying to be sneaky about it. It's almost like taxing water or food—just because it's more expensive doesn't mean people will stop buying it. They'll just stop buying other things and slow down the economy.
Except that the REAL point of a Trump Tariff is that is increases the price which U.S. consumers pay, and that additional price goes straight to U.S. government coffers. Trump IS sneakily taxing the American public (to pay for his $multi-Trillion deficit due to corporate tax cuts), who being the American public, mostly don't realize they are being taxed by their 'everyman' 'just-like-us' very stable genius (in his own words!). You are correct in that a tariff should be sparingly used as an economic tool to apply pressure—in a targeted and delicate and short-termed fashion. Trump does not understand any of this, nor does he care. None of these costs will directly affect him, so he is unconcerned. And I doubt he understands the further implications like an economic crash at all.

--Just a note: If YOU have to tell people that A) you are 'stable,' and B) that you are a 'genius,' then C) You are NEITHER, and everyone is aware of your deficiencies!
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Is it me, or is does it seem that this administration is actively trying to sabotage our economy?

I mean, what sense do these tariffs make? So far they've only caused problems. What is the end goal here?
One end goal is to bolster the Russian influence and world presence (which directly results in increased Rubles for Russian oligarchs; there are fascinating charts showing the massive billions in wealth laundered out of Russia and into the West over the course of the last 25 years) while destroying America. Our Kremlin-backed Orange Leader is serving his business interests and following Vladimir Putin's directions—torpedo the U.S. economy, destroy U.S. world political and military hegemony, remove us from the European sphere of influence, and best of all, alienate ALL of our once-allies in Europe and soon in Asia as well.
 
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So much emotional drivel on here. Good grief. You guys give Trump too much credit, just like the Right gave Obama so much credit.

And it's not clear exactly how bad this sticks it to China as other countries have already stepped up with agricultural sales. We have soybeans in storage starting to go bad. But yeah, people are (I was going to say dumb) but that wouldn't be nice. Some people are intellectually challenged. The world is a little too complicated. That's why they like coal.
Your post reeks of liberal elitism. Like somehow equating Conservative to a lack of intelligence is in any way related. There’s morons on both sides, clearly. Take off the liberal blinders and recognize the complete failure of the American political system. We have Donald Trump as president because we had a disastrous 8 years of an incompetent community organizer, who we were blessed to have thanks to 8 years of GWB, who we had thanks to 8 years of Clinton. I can go on. The reality is a large part of America think Maxine Waters, Nancy Pelosi, Elizabeth (the Native American!) Warren are quality leaders so they continue to vote for them over and over and over. Appalling how “dumb” those three women are. And yet a large part also felt Trump was better qualified than anyone else. Also shocking. The reality is we have a largely “intellectually challenged” populace who doesn’t want to be accountable for their actions. They just want comfort and convenience, even if that means being screwed long term by not just China, but many other countries the US trades with as well. So long as their goods and services are cheap now, who gives a **** why costs are low and how sustainable those methods are long term. Damn the next generation, I’m comfortable and I’m saving money now! :rolleyes: I’m tired of seeing political ideologues blame one party and one president every 4-8 years. I wonder if those same folks are intellectually challenged to not see that America has arrived where it is because of the dispicible leadership we’ve had for decades on BOTH sides. Every president and every party led congress will somehow lead to the end of times...
 
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Wanting to enact policy that will hurt your neighbors because of their political views is beyond stupid. Good grief we have lost all sense of decency as a people.

"Lost." Take off the rose-colored glasses, please. American 'decency' is a fairy-tale. Just ask any of the underclass, or non-whites historically oppressed by the 'good' and 'decent' American people. Hell, ask those same 'decent' people about their massacres of American Indians. Or their current—CURRENT—attempts to disenfranchise American Indian voters in North Dakota this past few weeks!

Link: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/north-dakota-native-american-voters/

This law, created by 'decent' conservatives was implicitly conceived in order to deny these (liberal) voters their constitutional right (*privilege) to vote.

*I mention privilege since many conservatives attest that voting is not a right and should be taken away from the 'unworthy.'
 
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The USA used to be a "nation of laws", but that changed a long time ago. Don't believe me ? then tell your boss you'll be using a private email server to conduct all your company business - see how that goes!

It's now a free for all, "catch me if you can" society. If you don't have the stomach to "step over bodies", either you will learn how to get used to it, or you will be one of those bodies. It's just that simple.

In terms of how the USA will do geopolitically in the coming years, this is how it will go down:


Summary: The rest of the world is screwed, and we (the USA) don't need to care. Either you work with us on our terms, or you can piss off. Implementing a hostile foreign policy (tariffs, etc) in the near term will only accelerate the inevitable - AND - it will make other countries pick a side early in this new age. The USA can ride out any bumps in the road caused by tariffs, etc.. but putting China's nuts in a vice NOW is the best way forward. The only real way other countries have been able to harm the USA was to stay "on the fence" in an attempt to "fool" us into believing they were on "our side". Trump will not put up with this and everyone knows it, which is why the world hates him.

The possibility of any significant war with the USA is zero. We have a "blue water" navy with 10+ aircraft carrier groups. All other nations in the world combined amount to not even 2 carrier groups. China does not even have a blue water Navy, but Japan does :) Starting a war with the USA would be suicide for any country that tries it. And starting any war with anyone else has become way to expensive - no other country can afford the military they currently have.
 
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There’s morons on both sides, clearly. Take off the liberal blinders and recognize the complete failure of the American political system. We have Donald Trump as president because we had a disastrous 8 years of an incompetent community organizer, who we were lucky to have thanks to 8 years of GWB, who we had thanks to 8 years of Clinton.

Obama was also a state senator. I laugh when I hear community organizer used as an insult. Geez, can't imagine why common people would want a community organizer in office instead of a NYC elitist who ripped off his father, the state and federal government, employees and hopeful real-estate students who he bilked out of cash with his laughably lousy "Trump U".

With all due respect to George W. Bush, who looks like a worldwide brilliant scholar compared to the all-knowing "stable genius", this country prospered under Clinton and recovered under Obama.

The federal government has problems, and lots of them, but I simply can't get all the false comparisons and the belief they are all one and the same. They are not. If you want to call Clinton and George W. two sides of the same coin, I can kind of see the argument. If you want to say Obama had to use EO's and do some political strong-arming and Trump has done the same, sure.

"Community organizer" as an insult is a joke. Trump doesn't even walk around when he plays golf at the taxpayer expense.
 
Obama was also a state senator. I laugh when I hear community organizer used as an insult. Geez, can't imagine why common people would want a community organizer in office instead of a NYC elitist who ripped off his father, the state and federal government, employees and hopeful real-estate students who he bilked out of cash with his laughably lousy "Trump U".

With all due respect to George W. Bush, who looks like a worldwide brilliant scholar compared to the all-knowing "stable genius", this country prospered under Clinton and recovered under Obama.

The federal government has problems, and lots of them, but I simply can't get all the false comparisons and the belief they are all one and the same. They are not. If you want to call Clinton and George W. two sides of the same coin, I can kind of see the argument. If you want to say Obama had to use EO's and do some political strong-arming and Trump has done the same, sure.

"Community organizer" as an insult is a joke. Trump doesn't even walk around when he plays golf at the taxpayer expense.
I think we agree on some points, though I don’t have quite the fond memory you do of Clinton (who in his defense worked well with the both sides of the house) and certainly not the fond memory of Obama’s ability to do much of anything except massively expand government size, instate a healthcare law that nearly crippled the economy again, and basically regulated to oblivion, further stifling economic growth. I merely pointed to Obama’s rise from community organizer to darling of the Democratic Party in very short order, and really for what? He was present as a senator for a whopping 18 months of his senator seat, the rest he was campaigning. He did nothing to be deified the way he was by the left. The man did no wrong in the eyes of the Left and the media other than not be more aggressive with his progressive ideology. And I have by no means stated I support Trump’s character. I would say the only ‘good’ that will come out of a Trump presidency is the exposure of the corruption in Washington, and, as a non-trad medical student, something I can relate to, the elimination of the individual mandate of the ACA. To burden youth with essentially a tax to fund the bill was appalling. All the ACA did was redistribute wealth around. I don’t know a single person who’s health care improved or got less expensive. Nearly every plan I’ve seen has people paying hundred per month with absurdly high deductibles. Basically no insurance other than exhorbitantly high catastrophic insurance. What a joke.
 
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