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Obama was also a state senator. I laugh when I hear community organizer used as an insult.

"Community organizer" as an insult is a joke.

The real insult and joke is Obama's record voting "present" as an Illinois state senator. He did so 129 times.

While 129 "present" votes may not seem like much (it isn't), the real motivation is that he avoided taking a stance on 129 issues that could damage his political career down the road. This is what Joe Biden meant when he meant Obama was "Clean":

 
The real insult and joke is Obama's record voting "present" as an Illinois state senator. He did so 129 times.

While 129 "present" votes may not seem like much (it isn't), the real motivation is that he avoided taking a stance on 129 issues that could damage his political career down the road. This is what Joe Biden meant when he meant Obama was "Clean":


If you want to blast Obama's voting record, do so. That's his political career and everyone has their view. People dumping on someone for being a community organizer is a bizarre thing to me, always has been. First, its as if caring about your city is laughable, then its as if he wasn't also a senator. You do realize most politicians had other jobs first? You usually don't go to college and get a job as a senator or congressman as your first job. Obama did many things... that he did some time working in his city is an odd thing to single out.

I'm not sure why conservative voters thought that Trump was in any way sympathetic or caring of them. He's never been poor, he takes advantage of workers (tried too stiff... get this... illegal immigrants laying the foundation for Trump Tower), rips off aspiring college-aged kids and young adults, skirts on taxes, goes bankrupt and calls it a success.. the list goes on. That is who middle and lower class Americans elected. Sorry, not seeing it. Factories shut down... it's about him looking bad.
 
Name One Corporation that does not get City, State, and or Federal Subsidies. The saying, Socialism takes all the risks while Capitalism take all the rewards, true. The way we roll in the USA.

You aren't using (because you have been poorly educated by intent) the correct terminology. US Corporations get tax breaks, not subsidies. There is a big difference. Subsidies are cash up front - this is how Airbus built a plane no one wanted: The A380 - its development was funded using EU loans, so the EU funded the risk. The A380 will never break even, and the EU taxpayer will pay for the failure. But, Airbus created jobs in the process so the EU will not care. This is like paying 2 teams of workers: Team 1 digs holes in the ground, and team 2 follows behind and fills them back in. This is why the EU has failed (BTW, the EU central bank just borrows money from the US fed, so we (the USA) earn interest on the cash they blow for these idiotic ideas!).

Yes Boeing gets tax breaks which would only be relevant if Boeing makes a profit. But Boeing must fund the risk up front. This keeps government out of the business of building (the wrong) planes. Yes, jobs are created, but workers pay taxes, so government gets their money anyway.
 
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I think we agree on some points, though I don’t have quite the fond memory you do of Clinton (who in his defense worked well with the both sides of the house) and certainly not the fond memory of Obama’s ability to do much of anything except massively expand government size, instate a healthcare law that nearly crippled the economy again, and basically regulated to oblivion, further stifling economic growth. I merely pointed to Obama’s rise from community organizer to darling of the Democratic Party in very short order, and really for what? He was present as a senator for a whopping 18 months of his senator seat, the rest he was campaigning. He did nothing to be deified the way he was by the left. The man did no wrong in the eyes of the Left and the media other than not be more aggressive with his progressive ideology. And I have by no means stated I support Trump’s character. I would say the only ‘good’ that will come out of a Trump presidency is the exposure of the corruption in Washington, and, as a non-trad medical student, something I can relate to, the elimination of the individual mandate of the ACA. To burden youth with essentially a tax to fund the bill was appalling. All the ACA did was redistribute wealth around. I don’t know a single person who’s health care improved or got less expensive. Nearly every plan I’ve seen has people paying hundred per month with absurdly high deductibles. Basically no insurance other than exhorbitantly high catastrophic insurance. What a joke.

And yet when you ask most Americans if they like the Affordable Care Act, they say yes. Ask them if they like Obamacare, and its more mixed. Wonder why? Insurance is a joke in this country overall, ACA or none because the entire system is rigged and broken.

Obama took plenty of flack from both sides of the aisle, as well as blacks. Many black people claimed Obama forgot them, left them, or just didn't do anything for them. Then there's the whole birther, Kenyan-born Muslim, he didn't actually graduate crap. He got hit from both sides.

"Almost crippled the economy" means he didn't, and the numbers at the end of his presidency show that. He increased the deficit - this is so multi-faceted I'd bore both of us by drawing it out, but what has Trump done to improve that? If you want to argue about deficit increases, that's fine. But that is something almost every president does, and the gridlock on taxes I believe is the single biggest reason why.
 
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If you want to blast Obama's voting record, do so. That's his political career and everyone has their view. People dumping on someone for being a community organizer is a bizarre thing to me, always has been. First, its as if caring about your city is laughable, then its as if he wasn't also a senator. You do realize most politicians had other jobs first? You usually don't go to college and get a job as a senator or congressman as your first job. Obama did many things... that he did some time working in his city is an odd thing to single out.

I'm not sure why conservative voters thought that Trump was in any way sympathetic or caring of them. He's never been poor, he takes advantage of workers (tried too stiff... get this... illegal immigrants laying the foundation for Trump Tower), rips off aspiring college-aged kids and young adults, skirts on taxes, goes bankrupt and calls it a success.. the list goes on. That is who middle and lower class Americans elected. Sorry, not seeing it. Factories shut down... it's about him looking bad.

Even Obama's "Community Organizer" title was a ruse. Obama was an attorney for crooked real estate developers, namely Tony Rezko, who is now a convicted felon:
http://barackobamafile.com/tony-rezko/

So Obama also made tons of cash from real estate! Funny!
 
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You aren't using (because you have been poorly educated by intent) the correct terminology. US Corporations get tax breaks, not subsidies. There is a big difference. Subsidies are cash up front - this is how Airbus built a plane no one wanted: The A380 - its development was funded using EU loans, so the EU funded the risk. The A380 will never break even, and the EU taxpayer will pay for the failure. But, Airbus created jobs in the process so the EU will not care. This is like paying 2 teams of workers: Team 1 digs holes in the ground, and team 2 follows behind and fills them back in. This is why the EU has failed (BTW, the EU central bank just borrows money from the US fed, so we (the USA) earn interest on the cash they blow for these idiotic ideas!).

So, the Airbus A380 is a flop, government funded experiment that wouldn't have happened in the private sector! Like the Concorde? The race to space, the Apollo fleet to the moon, the Space Shuttle?

Similar government projects are the railway system in the EU and Japan (leaving out China deliberately for obvious reasons), the Hoover Dam and similar irrigation/electric projects around the world.

Isn't it too soon to say that the A380 is a flop?

Yes Boeing gets tax breaks which would only be relevant if Boeing makes a profit. But Boeing must fund the risk up front. This keeps government out of the business of building (the wrong) planes. Yes, jobs are created, but workers pay taxes, so government gets their money anyway.

Boeing (and similar companies) are great in what they do, but they also bleed you dry with the bill and later the maintenance. See the cost of the F35! Lockheed Martin managed to "lobby" the governments (yes, another joint effort venture plane) to pay for the experiment and design phase while making the plane and still fixing the design. Even the USA doesn't use the plane in combat - just blobs of gold sitting in storage.

You are wrong in saying that Boeing gets no funds upfront! The Pentagon signs contracts and pays them money to develop and build (not just Boeing, even GE, LMT) these fighter jets. There are several examples thru history even in this decade where they shut down projects because the Pentagon stopped paying development costs. Same with battle ships.

You make it sound like no USA corporation gets "subsidies" per your definition and that it is all tax breaks; and that this government is not involved in building "private" planes. Not true.
 
Yes please Mr. Trump, would totally love it, Chinese Hegemony has been going on for too long. They have stolen all US Tech and use them in their Phones and other electronics regularly. The Chinese thieve companies should be taught a lesson.
 
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Experience has become a hindrance to finding jobs in tech. This is why there are so many incompetent "Script Kiddies" working in the industry (because they're cheaper).
Worst case, can't the experienced people just work for the same price as the newbies? It's not a bad thing to have experience.
The definition of leadership in tech has changed drastically. Most end up in those roles not due to their technical skill, but rather their ability to back stab and bully others. They "earned" their positions by the body count they left behind.

Tech attracts sociopaths who excel at the "last man standing" game.
I've never seen any of this while working in tech. In fact, I find tech employees to be the least aggressive and most focused on the job. If there's an idiot in charge, everyone will know immediately.

Even in school it was like this. The CS majors were the kindest, and all the unethically competitive jerks were in other things, especially business.
 
So, the Airbus A380 is a flop, government funded experiment that wouldn't have happened in the private sector! Like the Concorde? The race to space, the Apollo fleet to the moon, the Space Shuttle?

Similar government projects are the railway system in the EU and Japan (leaving out China deliberately for obvious reasons), the Hoover Dam and similar irrigation/electric projects around the world.

Isn't it too soon to say that the A380 is a flop?



Boeing (and similar companies) are great in what they do, but they also bleed you dry with the bill and later the maintenance. See the cost of the F35! Lockheed Martin managed to "lobby" the governments (yes, another joint effort venture plane) to pay for the experiment and design phase while making the plane and still fixing the design. Even the USA doesn't use the plane in combat - just blobs of gold sitting in storage.

You are wrong in saying that Boeing gets no funds upfront! The Pentagon signs contracts and pays them money to develop and build (not just Boeing, even GE, LMT) these fighter jets. There are several examples thru history even in this decade where they shut down projects because the Pentagon stopped paying development costs. Same with battle ships.

You make it sound like no USA corporation gets "subsidies" per your definition and that it is all tax breaks; and that this government is not involved in building "private" planes. Not true.

Wow, you're really confused:

Yes, the A380 is a flop. It will never reach "break even" required to recover the R&D costs. The interest on loans made to Airbus continue to accumulate while sales are tapering off. The airlines that bought the plane are taking them out of service. End of. Funny you mention the Concorde, the A380 and Concorde failed in exactly the same manner.

But you cannot compare commercial airplanes to a governmental space program. Apollo and the Space Shuttle were not revenue generating equipment built for businesses. Piling on government railway systems to your nonsensical ramble just demonstrates your lack of economic knowledge. An economy is segmented into sectors, which operate in different ways for different purposes. Public works projects are in no way similar to private business.

The F35 is a defense product sold to government military. Do you understand the difference between the United States Air Force, and United Airlines? And that United Airlines will NOT be buying F35s for "revenue service"? Your post suggests you do NOT understand these differences.

When a USA Corporation sells a military product to the US (or any) government, it is NOT a subsidy, it is a SALE of that corporation's defense product.
 
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You've been gone only two years, or twelve years?

The anger in the USA is about Obama winning the Presidency.

The angry nation found a succor in D T Drumpf!

Hah, so they re-elected him and then got angry afterwards? My impression was that everyone loved Obama personally. But he wasn't as much of a unifier as they thought he would be and he was a bit too much of a liberal ideologue. The country seemed more divided by the end of his presidency than it was when it elected him, which was the opposite of result of what everyone had hoped for when elected him.
 
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I have a agree with this as a Canadian (with a green card) living California I pay a ridiculous amount for US medical insurance vs taxes in Canada. My Taxes and medical insurance in the US are tens of thousands more in California vs my home province. My coverage is about the same in Canada as the US except in Canada I have no copays or deductibles. Now if I could only convince my wife to quit her job and move back to Canada I would.
[doublepost=1543443875][/doublepost]
Not true I sold my unreliable expensive to fix BMW and bought a Chevy Volt -its the the best car I have ever owned - on top on that there is zero to no maintenance and I have spent less than $200.00 this year on gas and have driven it and 10,000 miles. It's 5 years old zero maintenance issues and I am on my second set of tires - that's it. I would by another one in heartbeat.
Well, they made a single reliable car. You really proved me wrong.
 
Well, they made a single reliable car. You really proved me wrong.
Proved you wrong? You have it backwards: you have to prove yourself right. Considering your argument is "Probably has nothing to do with the junk cars they make, huh?" you have a rather large mountain to climb to prove that as true. As always, anecdotes don't count.



Mike
 
You aren't using (because you have been poorly educated by intent) the correct terminology. US Corporations get tax breaks, not subsidies. There is a big difference. Subsidies are cash up front - this is how Airbus built a plane no one wanted: The A380 - its development was funded using EU loans, so the EU funded the risk. The A380 will never break even, and the EU taxpayer will pay for the failure. But, Airbus created jobs in the process so the EU will not care. This is like paying 2 teams of workers: Team 1 digs holes in the ground, and team 2 follows behind and fills them back in. This is why the EU has failed (BTW, the EU central bank just borrows money from the US fed, so we (the USA) earn interest on the cash they blow for these idiotic ideas!).

Yes Boeing gets tax breaks which would only be relevant if Boeing makes a profit. But Boeing must fund the risk up front. This keeps government out of the business of building (the wrong) planes. Yes, jobs are created, but workers pay taxes, so government gets their money anyway.

If you are going to use a term in the language, understand its definition.

What is a 'Subsidy'
A subsidy is a benefit given to an individual, business or institution, usually by the government. It is usually in the form of a cash payment or a tax reduction. The subsidy is typically given to remove some type of burden, and it is often considered to be in the overall interest of the public, given to promote a social good or an economic policy.

If you want to diverse from the definition then clearly say so. All are subsidies by definition, payment method your diversion. Maybe not so poorly educated as you think?




Read more: Subsidy Definition | Investopedia https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/subsidy.asp#ixzz5YGQUz742
Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook
 
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Because other countries can do it for cheaper, and we train Americans to not do manual labor.

[doublepost=1543357529][/doublepost]

So you think raising prices on them due to raising steel prices is going to help GM sell cars?

If people liked GM cars, they would've sold more. Notice trucks are not mentioned. No issues there.
 
New Zealand just joined Australia in limiting Huawei's access to their infrastructure. If Drumpf did just that with Huawei, ZTE, etc. the Chinese tariffs on USA imports will disappear overnight.
Thank goodness we have more sense in the UK. Huawei are now one of the UK's largest telecoms infrastructure builders and suppliers. This is all politics and nothing to do with security. They even have a role working on security solutions with GCHQ. :)
 
If people liked GM cars, they would've sold more. Notice trucks are not mentioned. No issues there.

Weren't the shutdowns on plants making the Cruze and Impala?

It would hardly be shocking since I can count on one hand the number of current-gen Cruzes and Impalas I've seen. Odd since the previous (first) gen Cruze seemed to do pretty well.
 
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Are you honestly trying to say that trump knows more about how to build iPhones than Tim Cook? WOW.

Just as a reminder, Trump bragged that he sold all his Apple stock on January 28, 2014. Since then, the stock price has more than tripled. So, I'll take my cues on how to make iPhones from Tim Cook rather than Donald Trump.
Did Warren Buffett make a good investment with AAPL? I would say it’s a toss-up between Buffet and Trump when it comes to AAPL.
[doublepost=1543615896][/doublepost]
They give their employees healthcare, correct. A Federal program heavily subsidized since WWII as one example. In fact All employers with healthcare are on a heavily subsidized Federal program. The list is very long and maybe you need to understand the word Federal.
Good try. A standard across-the-board tax deduction is NOT a subsidy.
 
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Did Warren Buffett make a good investment with AAPL? I would say it’s a toss-up between Buffet and Trump when it comes to AAPL.
[doublepost=1543615896][/doublepost]
Good try. A standard across-the-board tax deduction is NOT a subsidy.

You folks have a real hard time understanding the word Subsidy in economics.
Another example, ones mortgage deduction a Government subsidy to encourage home ownership.

What is a 'Subsidy'
A subsidy is a benefit given to an individual, business or institution, usually by the government. It is usually in the form of a cash payment or a tax reduction. The subsidy is typically given to remove some type of burden, and it is often considered to be in the overall interest of the public, given to promote a social good or an economic policy.



Read more: Subsidy Definition | Investopedia https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/subsidy.asp#ixzz5YNhn50ym
Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook
 
You folks have a real hard time understanding the word Subsidy in economics.
Another example, ones mortgage deduction a Government subsidy to encourage home ownership.

What is a 'Subsidy'
A subsidy is a benefit given to an individual, business or institution, usually by the government. It is usually in the form of a cash payment or a tax reduction. The subsidy is typically given to remove some type of burden, and it is often considered to be in the overall interest of the public, given to promote a social good or an economic policy.



Read more: Subsidy Definition | Investopedia https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/subsidy.asp#ixzz5YNhn50ym
Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook
If you want to use this definition, then EVERYBODY in the US receives a subsidy because EVERYONE takes deductions. Even if you don’t itemize, you take a standard deduction. Therefore, you personally are taking a federal subsidy. Shame on you unless you refuse to take deductions on your taxes for ideological reasons. I very seriously doubt that. How dare you get a free ride on the backs of the taxpayers?
 
If you want to use this definition, then EVERYBODY in the US receives a subsidy because EVERYONE takes deductions. Even if you don’t itemize, you take a standard deduction. Therefore, you personally are taking a federal subsidy. Shame on you unless you refuse to take deductions on your taxes for ideological reasons. I very seriously doubt that. How dare you get a free ride on the backs of the taxpayers?
Now you are correct. Very few if any are subsidy free. The issue then moves to intensity and balance. Are my 2 dollar subsidies equal to others 10 million subsidies. In some cases they are, others not so much.
 
Not good being Apple these days. Litigation hitting you over the whole 30 percent thing (that would cause a world of pain for Apple). Trump and his tariffs. One two punch. All on top of lesser demand as Apple moves prices over to the right.

But hey at least they’re still gonna make tv shows and original content. And there’s always that Apple car. Lol
 
Wow, you're really confused:

Yes, the A380 is a flop. It will never reach "break even" required to recover the R&D costs. The interest on loans made to Airbus continue to accumulate while sales are tapering off. The airlines that bought the plane are taking them out of service. End of. Funny you mention the Concorde, the A380 and Concorde failed in exactly the same manner.

But you cannot compare commercial airplanes to a governmental space program. Apollo and the Space Shuttle were not revenue generating equipment built for businesses. Piling on government railway systems to your nonsensical ramble just demonstrates your lack of economic knowledge. An economy is segmented into sectors, which operate in different ways for different purposes. Public works projects are in no way similar to private business.

The F35 is a defense product sold to government military. Do you understand the difference between the United States Air Force, and United Airlines? And that United Airlines will NOT be buying F35s for "revenue service"? Your post suggests you do NOT understand these differences.

When a USA Corporation sells a military product to the US (or any) government, it is NOT a subsidy, it is a SALE of that corporation's defense product.

I like the A380 been on it quite a few times. I think most passengers also like it. Business class on that plane is really nice if you take Emirates.
 
Hah, so they re-elected him and then got angry afterwards? My impression was that everyone loved Obama personally. But he wasn't as much of a unifier as they thought he would be and he was a bit too much of a liberal ideologue. The country seemed more divided by the end of his presidency than it was when it elected him, which was the opposite of result of what everyone had hoped for when elected him.
Plenty of people called Obama a Nazi for no reason. Now plenty of different people call Trump a Nazi for no reason. Each won roughly half the votes. The two parties design their strategies in a way that makes that so. Can't please everyone.
 
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China just agreed to cease tariff, buy additional u.s products, will sign a deal in 90 days. Trump took a big risk and now win, again.

This is a big win for everyone. if we wait a few more years to act, we have nothing left to leverage because China would dominate everything.
 
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