TSMC Details Potential iPhone 12 A14 Performance and Upcoming 3nm Process

[techwhiz]

I'm not really sure what they'll use considering the current nodes are more like a marketing term and not really representative anymore. TSMC going from 7->5 mainly points at "the next generation" instead of going from 7->5 literally.

For example AMD is currently on 7nm and Intel on 10nm (or 10+) but AMD's 7nm isn't smaller than Intel's 10nm, they're just measuring differently.

It's the smallest feature size and has nothing to do with density.
To truly compare you need the number of gates or transistors per square mm.

 

[fokmik]

This year Apple will focus little for the 5nm for the iphones and ipads, but much on the 5nm for the macs
They need it...i mean A12Z is working fine, and very nice..but still...they need that iGpu to be double the performance to meet the todays mid tier dGpu

 

[cmaier]

Once again.
A 5nm process just means the smallest feature is 5nm, not every feature in the process.
Intel 10nm is more dense that TSMC 7nm.
Smaller numbers do not necessarily translate to a denser process.

Design rules for TSMC 7 and Intel 10 look pretty similar to me. What are you referring to?

 

[Freida]

I wouldn't really want that. Why?

Well, simple logic tells me that what you fit in your phone could be much better and faster on a desktop and seeing that there is no such thing as computer fast enough then having dockable iPhone would just be another gimmick for kids.

We need power, not miniaturisation. My job is still not real time and won't be for a long time I guess and I'm sure there are other jobs that have the same issue. Being slowed down by the tech and waiting for the computation to happen is what makes us less effective.
So, pocketable computer with docking option is what I really don't want as its the same like tablet that attaches to a keyboard and turns into a laptop. No no no, too many compromises for little benefits.

The Apple's solution with iPad and Magic keyboard is way more elegant. Its just an option but it doesn't bring compromises.

Nah, won't jump on this one, sorry my king

There was rumour doing the rounds that Apple is secretly developing 'full fat' Mac OS for iPhone and iPad.

And?

You'll dock the iPhone/iPad to your 'Mac' or screen and have a 'Mac.'

That you'll have the ultimate in sycronicity this way. ie. A powerful iPhone 'Mac' (that blows my former 2012 iMac out the water...) that you can share full mobility with your 'base' Mac.

Imagine being able to harness a powerful iPhone and iPad at your Mac dock eg. to do 3d rendering or encoding video? A mini x-grid of power processing.

Far fetched?

I think it was Max Tech' that was demoing the iPad itself doing 8k encoding on some codecs that would bring a Mac Pro or iMac to its knees.

Regardless. The A14 will be quite the leap from the A12. In terms of 'X' power. This is the one I've been waiting for. And it should give a nice 'taste' of what's to come with AS...

...if AS doesn't beat the iPad A14x to market...

Azrael.

 

[iFan]

Once again.
A 5nm process just means the smallest feature is 5nm, not every feature in the process.
Intel 10nm is more dense that TSMC 7nm.
Smaller numbers do not necessarily translate to a denser process.

This gets repeated a lot on reddit and other comment spaces, but it's not entirely true.

Intel CLAIMED their 10nm chip is more dense than TSMC 7nm.
Then they had to make a lot of changes to actually get their yields up - hurting the density. TSMC has the density lead even in that comparison. And Intel has stated that their yields at 10nm are still poor and the ROI on this node will be worse compared to 14nm, etc. If you can barely produce it, how does it matter?

But even if you were correct, TSMC will have 3nm running in high volume in 2H 2022 before Intel even moves to 7nm. So you'll have TSMC 3nm chips competing against Intel 10nm chips for a short window. AMD tends to get on TSMC's latest process about 2 years later, so it will likely be Apple at 3nm and AMD at 5nm while Intel is still on 10nm.

I have no horse in the Intel/AMD/TSMC race, and I'd actually love for Intel to get it together so that the US has high tech manufacturing dominance in SOMETHING, but it's clear they are in the losing seat for the next few years when it comes to fabs.

 

[Hyperchaotic]

I'd prefer a 30% power savings over a speed increase, but then I want it in a phone not a laptop.

It'd be a whole lot less once you factor in other components still using their share of the juice like screen and radios.

 

[CarlJ]

Rumor sites: “Indications are the battery in the next iPhones might be slightly smaller.”

Forum members: “Oh noes! That has to mean shorter runtimes!”

Apple/TSMC: “Hold my beer.”

 

[Marx55]

Great, but what after the nm limit for silicon is reached around 1 nm or so? That is around the corner.

 

[Piggie]

Please remember everyone this node size 10nm, 7nm, 5nm, 3nm is not what it seems.
One persons nm is not what someone else regards as that nm,
And just because one tiny part of the design is 5nm does not mean the bulk/rest of the design is the same.

This looks good from a marketing point of view but don't be fooled, and look into exactly what it means what a specific company says it uses x nm for their chips.

 

[cmaier]

Great, but what after the nm limit for silicon is reached around 1 nm or so? That is around the corner.

That’s not a limit

 

[mannyvel]

Apple's chips have prioritized power over performance. How fast could the B series be if they did the opposite ie: if there were no thermal or power constraints?

Intel doesn't have to worry, because Apple isn't going to license out the B-series (or whatever they're going to call them). But it'll give Apple the same performance advantage over Intel as it has over the Android chips. Not that it actually factors into anyone's buying decisions these days, but still.

 

[bmustaf]

There are many nuances well beyond die shrink in manufacturing in terms of IC performance, etc, but goddamnit, TSMC getting to 3nm and Intel's 10nm process node is barely viable.

Granted, they're very different measurements and processes, but it's just insane the level of progress TSMC esp has put up and the level of buffoonery* going on at Intel (well beyond process, but design/arch/quality/security). Glad to see them shown the door.

*No offense to any actual buffoons, yeah, that wasn't nice, I know.

 

[toke lahti]

Anybody knows do they still manufacture these in cleanroom10 or do they have tighter spec now?

 

[cmaier]

Anybody knows do they still manufacture these in cleanroom10 or do they have tighter spec now?

Not sure, but class 10 was standard years ago so by now I assume they have gone to lower numbers.

 

[lederermc]

I don't understand this statement in the third sentence. In two other places it says smaller = faster and more efficient...so what's up with this part? "When reducing the size of the manufacturing process, power consumption and performance improvements face a slight reduction."

Performance improvements reduction is still an improvement not a decrement. Mathematically: 1st derivative is positive and the 2nd derivative is negative. #WeirdLanguage.

 

[MacBH928]

" power consumption of up to 30 percent"

somehow each year Apple releases the same battery life without improvements really...

We are about to hit the atomic limit of process nodes.

Does this mean computers will stop becoming faster?

 

[cmaier]

" power consumption of up to 30 percent"

somehow each year Apple releases the same battery life without improvements really...



Does this mean computers will stop becoming faster?

Most power consumption on a phone is the radios and screen.

 

[JM]

You’re bored but want color leaks? common now

Yes I want color leaks so I can plan ahead and know exactly what I want so I'm ready day one of release/pre-order. (I take a long to decide on things if I'm going to be stuck with it for a while!)

 

[cmaier]

Yes I want color leaks so I can plan ahead and know exactly what I want so I'm ready day one of release/pre-order. (I take a long to decide on things if I'm going to be stuck with it for a while!)

You’re better off not knowing, so you will learn to make quick decisions.

(It’ll be very dark blue)

 

[jav6454]

Does this mean computers will stop becoming faster?

Not exactly. It means we’ll have to extract performance by other means.

 

[JM]

You’re better off not knowing, so you will learn to make quick decisions.

(It’ll be very dark blue)

I've read Pro will be dark blue to replace the dark green 11 pro. 12 non pro will likely get the 11 colors. Apple isn't dumb 😄 they know that dark blue will be something people will be willing to spend more money for. It'll be so beautiful.

But WHAT 11 colors will there be? XR colors? Easter egg pastel 11 colors?

 

[shansoft]

Once again.
A 5nm process just means the smallest feature is 5nm, not every feature in the process.
Intel 10nm is more dense that TSMC 7nm.
Smaller numbers do not necessarily translate to a denser process.

Exactly this...
I don't understand why people keeps putting up numbers without actually understanding the difference underneath.

 

[gnasher729]

I find it almost hilarious how far ahead TSMC (and by extension Apple) is compared to the competition in the ARM segment.

TSMC seems to be ahead of Intel, but they produce a lot of ARM processors, not only for Apple. What makes Apple's ARM processors faster than other TSMC ARM processors is the design, created by Apple.

 

[2013.1]

What happens when they run out of nm's?

Your iPhone will become a station in an intergalactic bypass and Apple will include a free towel.

 

[2013.1]

iPhone 5n