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tvOS 14 Brings Apple TV Support for AirPods Audio Sharing and Watching YouTube Videos in 4K

throAU

macrumors 604
Feb 13, 2012
6,851
4,517
Perth, Western Australia
I can't see Apple bothering to implement VP9 when
a) it is inferior to HEVC from a quality perspective
b) its only technical benefit, royalty free status, has been challenged by (admitted patent troll) Sisvel who have launched a patent pool with Dolby, Ericsson, JVC, NTT, Philips, Toshiba etc. patents behind them
c) its only practical benefit over HEVC is 4K Youtube...but they have already begun moving to AV1 for 1080p, 1440p, 2160p and 4320p.

I'd be pleasantly surprised to see it but I think Apple's general plan is AV1 > HEVC > AVC, and thats all there is to it. But they have been late to the open source party before (eg FLAC).

On the flip side, if Youtube "own" the app, they could very well have capitulated and done VP9 in software like in Infuse. But it seems odd for Apple to take credit for it at WWDC.

But speaking of which, also, AV1 software decode has been in Infuse for a good 9 months now.


Technical benefit aside, there are plenty of sites and plenty of content in VP9 and the *hardware* supports it, so they should support it.

Not supporting it just gives a far worse user experience, and apple are supposedly all about user experience...
 
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Wolfpup

macrumors 68030
Sep 7, 2006
2,821
84
I’m surprised it’s going to support 4K on YouTube. Glad, though not a huge deal to me since there’s diminishing returns on high quality content, and YouTube is not exactly a lot of high quality video lol

I’m not comfortable logging in with my real google, Apple, or Microsoft accounts on most of these streaming devices as I don’t trust their security, which is one of the reasons I’m seriously considering AppleTV, if they ever update it. Apple or an Xbox, okay, my tv, a Roku, or a FireTV, not really...
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Technical benefit aside, there are plenty of sites and plenty of content in VP9 and the *hardware* supports it, so they should support it.

Not supporting it just gives a far worse user experience, and apple are supposedly all about user experience...

It’s one of the ridiculous moves I expect from Apple. Makes zero sense, I have seriously no clue how it in any way benefits Apple not to support it, buuuut they like being difficult.

at least it doesn’t affect me much personally. At least not yet.
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I can't see Apple bothering to implement VP9 when
a) it is inferior to HEVC from a quality perspective

I think that’s kind of dubious, plus completely irrelevant. From what I’ve seen it’s similar, maybe beats H.265 under the right settings, and who cares? Apple isn’t paying for any extra bandwidth it uses, if it uses any.



I'm not sure. YouTube uses the VP9 video codec for 4k, which Apple doesn't use, so I'm not certain what has changed.

For some reason, the blame tends to somehow be that Apple is doing something to deny YouTube or that Apple isn't supporting VP9, but YouTub is the one using the non-standard standard (not many use it).

YouTube has not bothered to support the standard YouTube uses in their own app.

Keep in mind that Plex will play VP9 on the AppleTV, so it's clearly not anything Apple is stopping YouTube from doing. YouTube has made the choice to not support 4k on ATV.

I mean it is a standard, arguably more of a literal standard than H.265 is depending on your perspective. And while they might be able to do it, it would require doing it in software if Apple doesn’t support it, which at best is inefficient.

And presumably google isn’t wanting to store content in a bunch of separate codecs just to support one device who’s manufacturer randomly and pointlessly won’t support the codec.
 
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johannnn

macrumors 68000
Nov 20, 2009
1,860
1,638
Sweden
It must have been Apple. If Google caved, they would need to re-encode all their 4K videos to something the Apple TV supports.
The quote from Apple's page is "Watch the latest YouTube videos in their full 4K glory". Since they're including the word "latest", I'm guessing that Google don't bother to encode their entire massive library, but that they will start encoding every newly uploaded video.

So I'm pretty sure Google caved. Otherwise why include the word "latest"?
 
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rumormiller

macrumors regular
Aug 27, 2017
110
116
Now could YouTube or Apple do something about the audio on AppleTV? I can’t seem to get more than stereo.

Youtube only supports stereo - rubbish really. ATV outputs surround sound.
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Did anyone else notice a smaller HomePod next to the larger current HomePod during the HomeKit presentation Or am i just seeing things?!

In the picture there are two HomePods set up for stereo and an AppleTV in the middle. Does anyone have this setup? Can you comment on whether it's like a pseudo surround sound? Or is it just a flat wall of sound.

If only they could bring AirPods spatial technology to this setup you could have an acceptable home cinema experience without all the wires.
 
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FaustsHausUK

macrumors 6502
Mar 11, 2010
382
502
Chicago, IL
Make the next HomePod the tv. AirPlay 2 has gotten so reliable and lag free that a HomePod 2 with built in tv could stream wirelessly to any TV in the house with an AirPlay stick plugged into the HDMI port and to TVs with AirPlay already built in. HomePod is the centre of Apple’s home entertainment strategy. It now runs tvOS. The other shoe has yet to drop.

This is really what I’m looking for. I want one device that stores all my content, able to serve it even when the Internet is down. With its own dedicated network to talk to TV dongles, but still available over my main Wi-Fi too. Managing all my smart devices, whether or not my Internet is working. Learning mine and my girlfriend’s habits but keeping that knowledge secure locally.
 
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Oberhorst

macrumors regular
Nov 4, 2010
110
48
Stockholm
That's a nice surprise. Some speculated support may require new Apple TV hardware. I wonder if tvOS 14 is adopting VP9 or AV1 or both.
Maybe using the new AV1 codec as they working together on this and recent YouTube videos are using that codec.
Google / YouTube are now supporting the AV1 codec for some 4K content so it is possible that is the 4K content that the AppleTV now supports as Apple is a top-level member of the AV1 group and could be rolling in support in their various OSes.
Neither. AV1 is intended to replace VP9, and both Apple and Google are members of the Alliance for Open Media, which advocates for AV1 adoption.
Note that Apple say we can watch "the latest" YouTube videos in 4K. That's because YouTube are planning to start encoding 4K content in AV1, which Apple support. It's unlikely to mean we can watch any existing 4K YouTube as they're all in VP9.
If I recall correctly does AV1 require hardware support which current Apple devices don't have. So either Apple support VP9 which I don't see them doing all of a sudden or this will indeed mean AV1 but only on the next generation of devices that bring hardware support for AV1.
Supporting it software-wise would be an indicator for a coming hardware support though. Either way, this is good news.
 
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FaustsHausUK

macrumors 6502
Mar 11, 2010
382
502
Chicago, IL
If I recall correctly does AV1 require hardware support which current Apple devices don't have. So either Apple support VP9 which I don't see them doing all of a sudden or this will indeed mean AV1 but only on the next generation of devices that bring hardware support for AV1.
Supporting it software-wise would be an indicator for a coming hardware support though. Either way, this is good news.

There are ways to decode in software, but hardware is more efficient. I believe this is the encoder/decoder used by Netflix: https://github.com/OpenVisualCloud/SVT-AV1/
 
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garylapointe

macrumors 68000
Feb 19, 2006
1,674
1,073
Dearborn (Detroit), MI, USA
Has it? I stopped using Infuse (wasn't worth the rental fee IMO). Will it play 4k HDR AV1 on the AppleTV 4K? Stutter free?

I think Infuse is awesome! It's the ONLY app I pay a recurring subcription.
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If I recall correctly does AV1 require hardware support which current Apple devices don't have. So either Apple support VP9 which I don't see them doing all of a sudden or this will indeed mean AV1 but only on the next generation of devices that bring hardware support for AV1.
Supporting it software-wise would be an indicator for a coming hardware support though. Either way, this is good news.

I don't understand why supporting in software means new hardware (wouldn't supporting in hardware mean new hardware?)
 
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gnomeisland

macrumors 6502a
Jul 30, 2008
899
485
New York, NY
Infuse plays anything....even 100Gb 4k HDR files flawlessly. The best AppleTV app and the best video playing app on any platform IMHO. Don't use Plex any more as it struggles with big files and having to have server software can be a pain. Basically if Infuse can see a file, it will play it in my experience. If Apple allowed Atmos playing within the files it would be perfect.
I’ve used it. It is a nice app. I agree it played back every media type I had on hand to throw at it. I just didn’t use it enough to justify the subscription needed to play 4K. So I use my TV apps to handle local media. Not knocking InFuse.

My question is just about AV1 playback. In previous testing the A12X barely managed 4K playback. But this looks like a feature on the current A10X model. Not impossible that Apple came up with a better decoder but impressive.
 
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Oberhorst

macrumors regular
Nov 4, 2010
110
48
Stockholm
I don't understand why supporting in software means new hardware (wouldn't supporting in hardware mean new hardware?)
Because hardware support is way more efficient then mere software support. So if they already support it software-wise it would definitively be an incentive to also support it on the hardware side in the next iteration of devices.
 
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garylapointe

macrumors 68000
Feb 19, 2006
1,674
1,073
Dearborn (Detroit), MI, USA
Because hardware support is way more efficient then mere software support.

Definitely!

So if they already support it software-wise it would definitively be an incentive to also support it on the hardware side in the next iteration of devices.

I suppose. But if it works in software and the machine can keep up and processing power isn't an issue, then it's not a major concern either.

I could see this being a larger benefit on mobile devices (assuming it's used for lower resolutions).
 
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John.B

macrumors 601
Jan 15, 2008
4,148
655
Holocene Epoch
No, 24.000 and 23.976 are seperate (and valid) frame rate standards, both in Blu-Ray and Streaming. Apple TV does not handle 24.000 well.

This is an issue for eg. Netflix. For some reason, all of their original films are 24.000 when their original TV tends to be 23.976.
The ”24fps“ standard is really 23.976 fps. Netflix (and some others) aren’t following the standard, it seems like your beef should be with them.
 
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upandown

macrumors 6502a
Apr 10, 2017
729
619
John B and Erik Grim. It doesn’t matter what the standard is or should be. Content is created in all types of frame rates. The Apple TV should be able to play any of them with out frame skipping, period.
 
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mikevangorkom

macrumors newbie
Jul 8, 2014
24
16
I’m now getting the 4K option on iOS AND iPadOS betas. Wasn’t on iPadOS after initial install. Still not showing up on AppleTV after beta update. HDR showing up on iPhone 11 Pro, not on iPad Pro 12.9”.
 
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ErikGrim

macrumors 603
Jun 20, 2003
5,059
3,598
Brisbane, Australia
In the picture there are two HomePods set up for stereo and an AppleTV in the middle. Does anyone have this setup? Can you comment on whether it's like a pseudo surround sound? Or is it just a flat wall of sound.
It’s very much just stereo. Also still just as frustrating to use as a setup in the beta as before. Have to select the HomePods for every time you want to use them.
 
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Futhark

macrumors 65816
Jun 12, 2011
1,200
149
Northern Ireland
Has anyone tried watching a movie yet with someone else using two pairs of AirPods? A feature I’ve wanted for a long time.
 
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