U.K. Surveillance Powers Are 'Illegal', Rules E.U.'s Highest Court

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by MacRumors, Dec 21, 2016.

  1. MacRumors macrumors bot

    MacRumors

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    The European Union's highest court has ruled that the "general and indiscriminate retention" of electronic communications by governments is illegal, in a direct challenge to the U.K.'s recently passed Investigatory Powers Act, the so-called "Snooper's Charter" (via The Guardian).

    The U.K. bill requires that internet service providers retain a record of all websites visited by citizens for 12 months at a time, but today's decision by the European Court of Justice (ECJ) in Luxembourg ruled that the collection of data in such a manner puts citizens under "constant surveillance" and enables governments to draw "very precise conclusions" about their private lives.

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    The European Court of Justice
    It's unclear at this point whether the ruling can be used to overturn the United Kingdom's surveillance laws. The U.K.'s Home Office has said it will appeal the ruling, which could eventually prove academic once the country has withdrawn from the E.U. and the ECJ loses judicial authority over the U.K.

    Martha Spurrier, director of the human rights group Liberty, said the ruling "upholds the rights of ordinary British people not to have their personal lives spied on without good reason or an independent warrant."
    Apple has long opposed the U.K.'s Investigatory Powers bill, which originally required companies to build anti-encryption backdoors into their software, before an amendment to the wording meant that companies aren't required to do so when a government agency requests it, unless taking such an action "is technically feasible and not unduly expensive". The exact definition of those terms are set to be left to the decision-making of a British judge on a case-by-case basis.

    Note: Due to the political nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

    Article Link: U.K. Surveillance Powers Are 'Illegal', Rules E.U.'s Highest Court
     
  2. niun macrumors 6502a

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    Steady now E.U.
    The people of England (outside of major cities) have spoken and decided we'd like to become a soviet style snooper state that banishes basic human rights.
     
  3. ladeer macrumors 6502

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    #3
    The court house looks the most badass court in the world. Also, why would U.K. Care they will soon be out of EU
     
  4. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #4
    One of the things that will get left behind after Brexit will be civil liberties. It's sad.
     
  5. Stella macrumors 604

    Stella

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    #5
    The UK can re-introduce this after they've exited the EU.

    Must be great - living the book of 1984!
     
  6. JarScott macrumors 601

    JarScott

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    #6
    Sometimes I f**king hate this stupid country and it's ridiculous government. I didn't vote for Brexit and I didn't vote for Theresa May...what part of this is democracy?
     
  7. niun macrumors 6502a

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    We did manage to swap unelected officials in Brussels for an unelected official in our own country so... Progress?
     
  8. Chrjy macrumors 6502a

    Chrjy

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    #8
    This is clearly wrong and an invasion of privacy....having said that I think all our privacy went down the toilet a long time ago now we are in an internet age. Anyone who thinks different is very optimistic ;-)
     
  9. apolloa macrumors G3

    apolloa

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    #9
    Never mind, not long now and we can introduce it anyway once we've left the dictatorship EU.

    With all the terrorists being harboured in the UK this is a good idea. No one moans about being filmed several times a day by CCTV.

    No doubt the remoaners will complain.....
     
  10. niun macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    I'm thinking it's high time United was dropped from United Kingdom.
     
  11. robeddie Suspended

    robeddie

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    #11
    Yep, hate to be dramatic and jump on the bandwagon here but it certainly feels like the notion of a right to privacy is under attack more than ever these days.

    But all these oversharing tools on facebook and everywhere else probably dont give a damn.
     
  12. niun macrumors 6502a

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    Yeah, a dictatorship that actually looks out for Human rights violations.. Fancy that..
     
  13. SSD-GUY macrumors 6502a

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    #13
    Erm the former? I didn't vote for brexit either, but to call brexit undemocratic is slightly moronic. A free democratic vote was carried out and the leavers won?
     
  14. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #14
    I am just a resident in the UK, not a citizen, but I fell your pain, as do most people in Scotland.
     
  15. robeddie, Dec 21, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2016

    robeddie Suspended

    robeddie

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    #15
    So this is how it works, put some fear into peole and they'll throw away their rights at the blink of an eye. Again, not trying to get cliche here, but tens of thousands of people fought and died to protect those rights (think WW2) and now, since youre a little nervous about terrorists, you want to throw away what they fought so hard for.
    Your great grandparents are probably rolling over in their graves right now.
     
  16. mixel macrumors 65816

    mixel

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    #16
    May well be inevitable anyway if England try to force Scotland and NI out of the EU. Stupid referendum. :confused:
     
  17. LV426 macrumors 6502a

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    #17
    Long-time EU hater and now Brexit Minister David Davis was the main character in bringing this to court. How deliciously ironic that the institution he is trying so hard to dismantle has come to the aid of the UK and rapped our knuckles for overstepping the mark on privacy. He must be feeling like a right fecking hypocritical idiot now.
     
  18. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #18
    Yes, in the referendum the Leave side won. However, the current polls are mixed, with some suggesting that the number of people wishing to stay is more than those wishing to leave, and others suggesting the opposite. This is such a massive change, not only in regard to economic circumstances, but as well to citizens' rights, that I would have thought it should have required at least a plurality of the people eligible to vote. But alas, those Tories really bolluxed things up by not specifying exactly how the referendum result would be treated. What a fiasco.
     
  19. mateytate macrumors regular

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    #19
    Ummm... what part of this is democracy? The part where there was a referendum that gave everyone a vote. Just because it didn't go your way it doesn't mean it's not democracy. That is democracy.
     
  20. mkeeley macrumors 6502

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    #20
    This wasn't a judgement on the new law it was a judgement on the outgoing 2014 Dirpa (Data Retention and Investigatory Powers Act). Of course it may well have a knock on effect.
     
  21. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #21
    And to think I already paid for a years' worth of VPN access.... :confused:
     
  22. mkeeley macrumors 6502

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    #22
    When will the remoaners give it a rest? Still don't think May even wants out and it will be a wishy washy exit not what we voted for but that will be the end of them.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 21, 2016 ---
    They only believe in democracy if it agrees with their ideals.
     
  23. niun macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    What did you vote for exactly?

    £350 million a week going to the NHS?
    Border Control?
    Not having to pay any cash to the EU?
    A few less immigrants taking all the jobs that nobody wanted to do in the first place?

    All of that was complete bollox.
     
  24. Lord Hamsa macrumors 6502a

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    #24
    I'm torn between flipping the UK government the bird for this invasion of privacy and telling the EU to go pound sand.

    I guess I'm just rooting for injuries in this fight.
     
  25. sp3k0psv3t macrumors regular

    sp3k0psv3t

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    #25
    Being an American, and living stateside, I don't have a direct dealing with this issue at hand per se, but I do find it interesting that so many are OK with the massive CCTV surveillance implementation within the U.K. where virtually EVERY move u make is recorded 24 hours a day but not ok with this. I understand the mass collection of all electronic data from all citizens is a breach of certain civil liberties yes, but I also understand the issue with the large amount of terrorist activities that are conducted within the EU as well as the large influx of both terrorists and terrorist indoctrination groups working within the border that pose a much larger threat to the safety of all.

    It for sure is a delicate balance of freedom of rights and personal security in which I don't think there can ever be one without the other. Sadly, the evidence points to more needing to be done to protect the citizens and how can that be done without collecting, analyzing, and acting upon actionable intel that would not have been present without programs like this?

    Again, this is just MY opinion and personal feeling of the issues and matter at hand.

    And as a military veteran, I personally do not feel that this action is a contradiction for the freedoms I fought to protect as a solider of the ended goal is to protect the nation. The trade off of more privacy for citizens doing nothing wrong in an attempt to identify threats to national and sovereign security is an acceptable trade off for me. Not saying this opinion is right or wrong, just mine ;)

    Be safe.



    Best,

    USVet
     

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