U.S. Airlines Warn of 'Catastrophic' Crisis With Impending 5G Rollout, AT&T and Verizon Agree to Delay Around Airports

[alchemistmuffin]

Edit: oops, forgot that T-Mobile can’t roll out C-Band yet till 2023.

But my original statement stands. They should’ve rolled it out anyway. It’s the airlines that needs to adopt quickly, like the European counterparts.

Like Steve Jobs said, “technology moves fast”

And this is why T-Mobile is still the “uncarrier” because they test rolled 5G near the airports, despite the regulations. They don’t bend to the disrupters.

(And yes, airlines hates this, but T-Mobile basically gave the airlines the middle finger and rolled it out anyway in the most secure manner yet)

 

[temende]

Seems like the right call. I'd much rather be able to fly safely than have sporadic increase in cellular data speeds (which are already fast enough for mostly everything).

 

[Black Belt]

Gee no other country has had this problem. Smells like a shakedown by the US airlines

 

[RONS67]

They’ve known this rollout has been planned for years. AT&T and Verizon have already delayed it twice over the past month. T-Mobile has already rolled out this spectrum.

No, T-Mobile has exclusive use of 600MHz, which was deployed a while ago. Only Verizon and AT&T have licensed C-Band, the deployment of which has already been delayed several months.

 

[ersan191]

And this is why T-Mobile is still the “uncarrier” because they test rolled 5G near the airports, despite the regulations. They don’t bend to the disrupters.

(And yes, airlines hates this, but T-Mobile basically gave the airlines the middle finger and rolled it out anyway in the most secure manner yet)

T-Mobile uses 2.5GHz for their mid-band, they have not deployed any C-Band - this issue is not relevant to them yet.

 

[Phil77354]

I don't know enough about this to know how serious it is, but if so many airlines are formally warning of this risk, then it sounds potentially serious to me.

And like others here I don't understand why this was not anticipated and planned for, fingers pointing in every direction doesn't help much.

I'm anxious to get better 5G speeds from my AT&T iPhone but I can wait longer if they need to get this done correctly.

 

[MrMichaelJames]

These articles are hilarious. Last week and prior weeks the response from the airlines was "it might cause" or "it may cause" problems. But now it is "catastrophic" problems. It has gone from we don't know if it will or won't cause problems to airplanes will drop out of the sky.

 

[iBluetooth]

As a pilot, we are seeing this NOTAM (Notice to Airmen/Missions) pop up at airports all across the country now:

"AD AP RDO ALTIMETER UNREL. AUTOLAND, HUD TO TOUCHDOWN, ENHANCED FLT VISION SYSTEMS TO TOUCHDOWN NOT AUTHORIZED EXC FOR ACFT USING APPROVED ALTERNATIVE METHODS OF COMPLIANCE DUE TO 5G C-BAND INTERFERENCE PLUS SEE AIRWORTHINESS DIRECTIVE 2021-23-12"

Is this something that the FAA couldn't prepare for? Or did they wait for years until the frequency was to be used for telecommunication? Has anyone at the FAA been held responsible? Or are the airlines to blame for not updating their equipment?
I have read so many articles about this, but none of them seems to answer these questions? Was it the airlines or FAA, that waited until the last minute to act on this foreseeable change in the spectrum.

 

[Nicky G]

Does anybody know if 5G’s C-band is used exclusively for ultra-wideband? Or is it used for “regular” 5G?

 

[jz0309]

The rest of the world focused on verifying the safety, auctioning, and deploying "pioneer" 5G bands, (e.g. 700 MHz and 3.6 GHz in Europe). Those frequencies are balanced between penetration and bandwidth. Ultra high mmWave frequencies would be deployed later down the road.

Due to politics, the U.S. focused on deploying technically infeasible 5G bands (above 24 GHz) as their pioneer bands. They finally realized the mistake in 2019 and began auctioning mid-band frequencies. The problem is, none of the groundwork had been done by any of the agencies.

And it’s actually the FCC who auctioned the C band off to ATT and VZ, so it looks to me that the FCC did not do its homework, yet we don’t read about that (yet)

 

[funandblindness]

Verizon and AT&T's upcoming rollout of new C-Band 5G technology could cause chaos and lead to widespread delays of passenger and cargo flights, major U.S. airlines said on Monday in a letter sent to the White House National Economic Council, the FAA, and the FCC (via Reuters).

"Unless our major hubs are cleared to fly, the vast majority of the traveling and shipping public will essentially be grounded," read the statement, penned by CEOs of American Airlines, Delta Air Lines, United Airlines, Southwest Airlines, UPS Airlines, Alaska Air, Atlas Air, JetBlue Airways, and FedEx Express. More than 1,100 flights could be cancelled, diverted, or delayed, stranding over 100,000 passengers, and airlines have called for "immediate intervention."

The Federal Aviation Administration has claimed that interference from the C-Band 5G could affect airplane altimeters, impacting operations in poor weather conditions. The FAA has already implemented buffer zones around 50 major airports with wireless transmitters close to runways, but the airlines have said that this is not enough and are asking for C-Band 5G to be restricted in a two mile area around airport runways at affected locations.

According to the letter, the FAA has not cleared some of the airports that are "used by most of the traveling and shipping public," which is going to cause significant delays when C-Band spectrum goes live tomorrow.AT&T and Verizon have been planning to deploy C-Band spectrum to improve their 5G networks since December, but have faced multiple delays due to objections from the FAA and FCC. The two companies last agreed to delay the rollout until January 19, to give airlines more time to prepare to ensure fewer disruptions to air operations.

The two carriers paid billions of dollars for the C-Band spectrum to bolster their 5G networks, and have ensured customers that improvements are coming soon. Verizon last week announced plans to expand 5G Ultra Wideband technology to more than 1,700 cities in the U.S. using the spectrum, and the two carriers are reluctant to agree to further delays.

In response to the letter from the airlines, the FAA said that it "will continue to ensure that the traveling public is safe as wireless companies deploy 5G. The FAA continues to work with the aviation industry and wireless companies to try to limit 5G-related flight delays and cancellations."

Verizon and AT&T this morning said that they will voluntarily delay turning on a limited number of 5G towers to address the aviation industry's concerns. AT&T said that it is frustrated by the FAA's lack of action, given the time the agency has had to prepare.At the current time, it seems C-Band spectrum will indeed begin rolling out on January 19 as planned, but areas around some airport runways will not be activated at this time to avoid signal interference.

Article Link: U.S. Airlines Warn of 'Catastrophic' Crisis With Impending 5G Rollout, AT&T and Verizon Agree to Delay Around Airports

ECFS

Federal Communication Commission Electronic Comment Filing System

ecfsapi.fcc.gov

Why is this not a problem anywhere but the US?

 

[chewbaka]

These articles are hilarious. Last week and prior weeks the response from the airlines was "it might cause" or "it may cause" problems. But now it is "catastrophic" problems. It has gone from we don't know if it will or won't cause problems to airplanes will drop out of the sky.

I think the use of “catastrophic” is not reference to the safety risk, but rather the immediately operational snags if the bands are deployed before airlines and regulators deem themselves ready.

 

[jazz1]

Two weeks ago I was in a very nice, small town in Missouri. I checked my phone and saw my AT&T iPhone 13 Pro Max had 5G! I guess there are no airports close by.

Frankly, better safe than sorry cellphone carriers, but how can this potentially dangerous issue be such a surprise to all those directly involved???

 

[imlynxy]

Wait……
On the one hand The news tell me to consume less, drive electric, use solar and recycle ….
On the other hand same news tell me that “the worst is coming” … planes be landed. Confused ????

Planes are not green! I be happy if they fly 50% less above my place.

This is my only opinion, you can have the different and I respect you views.

 

[gknewell]

Just a reminder that these bands have been active in Europe near airports. Nothing has happened.

 

[bbplayer5]

Glad I switched to T-Mobile. Sure they may leak my personal information, but at least they bought the right bands not to bring down airliners lol. I don’t know if thats true, I just wanted to mock them

 

[NT1440]

If only such a thing as a government had the power to do something, instead of kindly asking Telecoms to just do whatever the hell they want….

 

[xxray]

T-Mobile has not rolled out any C-band as far as I know.

Thanks for the correction. I was thinking T-Mobile’s Ultra Capacity mid-band spectrum was C-band, but I realize now that T-Mobile uses 2.5GHz, which is not considered C-band.

 

[hirshnoc]

How are that many delays and cancellations any different from during covid?

 

[gaximus]

Because cellular companies are just now activating the c-band in broad regions of the country. It’s the c-band that interferes with altimeters.

But why now, c-band has been around since 2018, and has been approved for cellular use since 2020. Thats when the airlines should have started to complain about this.

 

[Hunter5117]

If they are so worried about the danger why not take it to the court and order an injection?

Correction on spelling: Injunction.

In light of the times I thought your first comment was very appropriate and funny.

 

[amorenog]

Remember the time when we couldn’t use our electronic devices during takeoff and landing because the FAA deemed that to be too unsafe? It seems to me that they have a track record of being unnecessarily conservative and slow to adapt to change.

 

[temende]

Gee no other country has had this problem. Smells like a shakedown by the US airlines

What's the incentive for US airlines to block 5G deployment? I'm not super familiar with the airlines and telcom industries, but there doesn't seem to be any obvious financial link between the two?

 

[Hunter5117]

If only such a thing as a government had the power to do something, instead of kindly asking Telecoms to just do whatever the hell they want….

It would seem that the telcos have a legitimate complaint. The FCC is always expanding and selling wavelength that ends up encroaching on some other active industry. The ever increasing need for cellular bandwidth is gobbling up everything.

 

[BrownyQ]

If this is already being used in other countries, and there's been no mass reporting of planes dropping out of the sky, why is there an issue here again? Just doesn't add up.

If, however, it's a matter of airlines failing to prepare for something that was planned so far in advance... well, that's on them, isn't it?