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U.S. Antitrust Legislation Would Require Users to Be Able to Delete All Pre-Installed Apple Apps [Updated]

matrix07 said:
How exactly that will help users when iPhone won't work out of the box?

Now users, after purchases, have to do all the works themselves it'll be like building your own PC in the 90s. What a drag.

Such a great idea.. NOT! 👎
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It won't help users, and that's never the actual point of so-called anti-trust regulations. Of course, the legislators and regulators dress it up in language, pretending it's to protect you and me.

But the truth is, it's to protect the interests of companies like Spotify, Epic, Pandora, and Sonos (who also pretend to be concerned about the little guy). Why are politicians and bureaucrats responding to the wants of companies? Because those companies are the ones with the motive and money to lobby. Concentrated benefits, dispersed costs. It's rather pathetic that our main hope is that Apple's lobbyists can beat up the other companies' lobbyists, because politicians don't care about our feeble voices even if they could hear them.
 
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This is why we can’t have nice things…

Someone should hand the committee members iPhones with all apps removed, escort their staff from the room, and time how long it takes them to send their first text message.
 
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FWIW, Pages, Keynote, Numbers, GarageBand (and many others) doesn't come pre-installed.

This reminds me of EU VS Microsoft on pre-installing Internet Explorer early this century.
 
levitynyc said:
Microsoft was almost broken up because they installed IE on Windows PCs 25 years ago. What Apple, Microsoft, and Google have gotten away with the past 15 years or so is incredibly far beyond that.

This legislation makes total sense and I support it.

Monopolies are a bad thing folks.
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Microsoft won the case... and then simply made their APIs available to competition. Something they do to this day, along with Apple and Google. The playing field is level when the same APIs are used.

Monopolies are a good thing when regulated, like AT&T and Standard Oil. Breaking them up was all about the almighty dollar, which the child companies now make far more of thanks to deregulation.
 
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I think we can all figure out what mobile OS they're using!

Seriously though, I wonder if Apple has metrics on how many of its customers use other apps in place of the built in ones. Several people at work use Outlook for their work email instead of Apple's own Mail. I've been using Apple's Calendar for 15 years and have seen no reason to change. I can see how a newer user might want to if the alternative did what they needed.
 
jimothyGator said:
Oh I grasp it. I point out that Apple can't impose whatever rules they like, because customers and developers will reject them. And you reply, "You're wrong! Apple can impose whatever rules they like, but customers and developers will reject them," and somehow, you think you've refuted my point by repeating it.
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I see the problem now, you have no understanding of nuance and ignore critical details. I never said Apple has the power to impose any rules that they want. The opposite in fact. I explicitly said Apple doesn’t have the power to impose absurd rules because developers would balk at them. Yes, this part is similar to what you are saying. However I also said that they do have the power to impose arbitrary rules. Customers and developers will not necessarily reject arbitrary rules, or even unfair rules. Especially if the alternative to not accepting those rules means no longer having access to the market or even half the market. That is not the same thing as what you’re saying and is the center of our disagreement. Do you understand that yet?

Just because developers have accepted and live with the existing rules does not automatically make them fair or not arbitrary. Can we move on from you pretending that we’re saying the same thing now? Unless of course you’re saying that you agree that developers will accept arbitrary and even unfair terms in certain scenarios, including scenarios that exist today. If that’s the case then you’re right, we fully agree.
 
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Wonderful.

so now I will be able to walk into a Ford dealership and get a Mustang with a Nissan R35 engine.
 
adib said:
FWIW, Pages, Keynote, Numbers, GarageBand (and many others) doesn't come pre-installed.

This reminds me of EU VS Microsoft on pre-installing Internet Explorer early this century.
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When is the last time you bought a Mac / iPad / iPhone? Every single one of those as well as iMovie is installed out of the box.
 
levitynyc said:
Microsoft was almost broken up because they installed IE on Windows PCs 25 years ago. What Apple, Microsoft, and Google have gotten away with the past 15 years or so is incredibly far beyond that.

This legislation makes total sense and I support it.

Monopolies are a bad thing folks.
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Microsoft went so much further.

They added code to make it seem that DR-DOS was incompatible with Windows 3.x, even though it worked just fine. They started contracts with software development companies and canceled the contracts when they had what they needed. They inserted function interfaces that were not known outside the company to make MS Office appear much faster. They inferred that there would be extra discounts for manufacturers that only sold equipment with Microsoft products, and slashed typical discounts for those who didn't.
 
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Sometimes I don't like Apple for her choices but for sure making a smartphone, like the iPhone, that is the most reliable, safe, smooth to operate in the market is something that I will always say "thank you Apple". Last, but not least, it's not even the most expensive when you consider that an iPhone can last many and many years ( I'm still using an iPhone X that works like it was new and I can still make all the day long with battery) and it has some resale value.
I don't need bloatware, I don't need it becames a piece of trash like Androids phones.
 
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Makes sense. That's what they forced Microsoft to do.

I'd support this completely. Especially if it included alternatives for the app store and a default music player for Siri to use.
 
_Spinn_ said:
How is this a win for consumers? Shipping a phone that is missing basic functionality because you have to hunt for the apps in the store is a terrible experience.
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Do what Microsoft does.

During the OOBE, you ask the user which app they want. Part of setting up your new iOS device is a selection screen; select your app store, your web browser, your music player, and your messaging app.
 
thejadedmonkey said:
Do what Microsoft does.

During the OOBE, you ask the user which app they want. Part of setting up your new iOS device is a selection screen; select your app store, your web browser, your music player, and your messaging app.
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Mail app, weather app, notes app, photos app, camera app, clock app… I mean seriously where do you draw the line. Do you really want to spend hours choosing all your app alternatives? And what get added to the list? Should we have every web browser available in every App Store as an option for the user to choose, so they can spend ages scrolling through them all?

I know we don’t expect those in Congress to use their brains, but we really should try harder here.
 
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ryanmp said:
Mail app, weather app, notes app, photos app, camera app, clock app… I mean seriously where do you draw the line. Do you really want to spend hours choosing all your app alternatives? And what get added to the list? Should we have every web browser available in every App Store as an option for the user to choose, so they can spend ages scrolling through them all?

I know we don’t expect those in Congress to use their brains, but we really should try harder here.
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You’re only the 154th person to make this same point. The best way to implement this admittedly poor solution to the problem is to only have it apply to apps where Apple offers a subscription or service for a fee. Most native apps would be unaffected. Relatively few, including the Music, TV, iCloud apps, would be affected.
 
vipergts2207 said:
You’re only the 154th person to make this same point. The best way to implement this admittedly poor solution to the problem is to only have it apply to apps where Apple offers a subscription or service for a fee. Most native apps would be unaffected. Relatively few, including the Music, TV, iCloud apps, would be affected.
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In that case, the OS is a subscription service.
 
It’ll be easier if Apple just refuses to comply and pays whatever fines are levied. Cost of doing business
 
BJMRamage said:
I’d rather have this than have a “blank” iPhone and need to download each app.
And if Apple had to do this then surely the other platforms would as well.

basically Congress doesn’t need to but it’s head into things this deep.
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Can’t wait for every phone to come with a 30 day trial of McAfee anti virus….
 
Apple should make the iPhone a subscription. Period. But I’m confident their lawyers know how to make iPhone exempt from whatever garbage comes out of the US and Europe. And I thought unelected EU autocrats were bad…
 
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