U.S. Bills Allowing Sideloading Would Cause Consumers to Be Hit With 'Malware, Ransomware, and Scams,' Says Apple

[huge_apple_fangirl]

I see it as people are purposefully ignoring apple’s philosophy and are confused over the talking points.

If Apple truly cares about the App Store purely from security, they should recognize that the high commissions they charge are causing regulators to want to open iOS up. If, as Apple claims, this would be disastrous for their customers, they should quickly lower commissions and stop anti-steering provisions in order to appease regulators and protect their customers’ security and safety. Except… they aren’t doing that.

Apple makes some good points about the safety of a single App Store vetted by them. But they undermine their own argument by treating the App Store primarily as a cash grab for themselves rather than a service for customers or developers.

 

[Wollombi]

You dont have a computer? Weak argument.

Sure he does. It's just in his pocket and called an iPhone.

 

[Wollombi]

And what about the free and open workd of macOS? Does macOS have relentless malware and ransomware attacks? It's not like you need to be a genius to see that it doesn't.... or maybe you do. ?‍♂️

And has been stated numerous times over and over and over again whenever the subject of sideloading and an alternative app store to Apple's comes up, if you don't feel comfortable using an app store not operated by Apple, you're free not to. You will not be forced to do so.

Do you understand what that means?

I don't think they do. There are a significant number of commenters here that are fully invested in and are true believers in Apple's FUD campaign.

We used to bash Microsoft for this very same thing, but of course in these peoples' minds, Apple would never tell them a lie for the sake of enormous profits...

 

[Wollombi]

Report: macOS malware boomed in 2020, but still a fraction of Windows threats - 9to5Mac

A study looking at new malware found in the wild during 2020 says that threats developed for macOS saw a...

9to5mac.com

macOS is not as large as Windows. I guarantee you that if macOS and Windows flipped, macOS would be a malware riddled mess like Windows is.

Windows isn't a malware riddled mess, as you put it. Yeah, malware exists, but the only way you are going to fall victim to it is if you are not computer literate at the most basic of levels, are careless, or are doing something stupid.

30 years on PC's and not a single virus on my Windows machines. Mac, either, for that matter.

 

[Wollombi]

Who gets to decide the percentage? Is 20% too much? What about 10%? What are the reasons? Why is 30% too much? Why not complain to Steam, PlayStation and Xbox and other stores that take 30%?

Are we really at a point where we cannot allow a business to price their own products? Should Apple be allowed to sell their laptops for the price they do?

Normally, the market would provide that, but Apple has excluded all other players. Hence the bills in progress.

 

[Wollombi]

If Apple truly cares about the App Store purely from security, they should recognize that the high commissions they charge are causing regulators to want to open iOS up. If, as Apple claims, this would be disastrous for their customers, they should quickly lower commissions and stop anti-steering provisions in order to appease regulators and protect their customers’ security and safety. Except… they aren’t doing that.

Apple makes some good points about the safety of a single App Store vetted by them. But they undermine their own argument by treating the App Store primarily as a cash grab for themselves rather than a service for customers or developers.

Apple can talk about app security when they stop allowing scam apps and other malware into the App Store they already curate. Otherwise, they don't really mean any of these arguments about security and malware. Put their money where their mouth is first, then they can credibly take that stance. But for now, it's just hot air and sleight of hand.

 

[Wollombi]

I would not be comfortable downloading apps from other app stores.

Then don't, and leave the functionality turned off in the settings. See how easy that was?

 

[I7guy]

If Apple truly cares about the App Store purely from security, they should recognize that the high commissions they charge are causing regulators to want to open iOS up. If, as Apple claims, this would be disastrous for their customers, they should quickly lower commissions and stop anti-steering provisions in order to appease regulators and protect their customers’ security and safety. Except… they aren’t doing that.

Apple makes some good points about the safety of a single App Store vetted by them. But they undermine their own argument by treating the App Store primarily as a cash grab for themselves rather than a service for customers or developers.

The commissions are historically based. The government can do what it wants. It broke up AT&T and today in 2022 where is the US cell phone service in terms of coverage and price with respect to the rest of the world.

That alone should be a red flag the government doesn’t always do the right thing. Thank goodness there is another branch to help balance out the power.

 

[I7guy]

Apple can talk about app security when they stop allowing scam apps and other malware into the App Store they already curate. Otherwise, they don't really mean any of these arguments about security and malware. Put their money where their mouth is first, then they can credibly take that stance. But for now, it's just hot air and sleight of hand.

Baloney. This is the throwing the baby out with the bath water argument. If it ain’t perfect then rip it down and start again rather than improve it.

 

[Ethosik]

Windows isn't a malware riddled mess, as you put it. Yeah, malware exists, but the only way you are going to fall victim to it is if you are not computer literate at the most basic of levels, are careless, or are doing something stupid.

30 years on PC's and not a single virus on my Windows machines. Mac, either, for that matter.

Good for you, you know what you are doing on your PC. My grandparents do not and I regularly need to clean their system out. That is, until we got them iPads. Yes, just look at the numbers. Windows is a malware infested mess. Why it is very unwise to run Windows without an anti-virus.

 

[dba415]

Good for you, you know what you are doing on your PC. My grandparents do not and I regularly need to clean their system out. That is, until we got them iPads. Yes, just look at the numbers. Windows is a malware infested mess. Why it is very unwise to run Windows without an anti-virus.

Windows has built-in antivirus and you don't even notice it running, but it's there.

 

[huge_apple_fangirl]

The commissions are historically based. The government can do what it wants. It broke up AT&T and today in 2022 where is the US cell phone service in terms of coverage and price with respect to the rest of the world.

That alone should be a red flag the government doesn’t always do the right thing. Thank goodness there is another branch to help balance out the power.

It’s irrelevant whether the commissions are justified or not. The reality is that they are creating developer anger and regulatory pressure. Given that App Store commissions are in no way integral to Apple’s success as a company, it would be wise to sacrifice them in order to retain better developer relations and avoid far-reaching government interventions into iOS that Apple believes would harm itself or its customers.

 

[I7guy]

It’s irrelevant whether the commissions are justified or not. The reality is that they are creating developer anger and regulatory pressure. Given that App Store commissions are in no way integral to Apple’s success as a company, it would be wise to sacrifice them in order to retain better developer relations and avoid far-reaching government interventions into iOS that Apple believes would harm itself or its customers.

Its my sincere hope the bill dies. I don’t care about developer anger. Let these devs go to android. We’ll see how this turns out.

 

[I7guy]

Windows has built-in antivirus and you don't even notice it running, but it's there.

Yes you do, even on fast cpus.

 

[huge_apple_fangirl]

Its my sincere hope the bill dies. I don’t care about developer anger. Let these devs go to android. We’ll see how this turns out.

I think this is a bad bill as well. My point is that Apple, through its refusal to compromise on its own terms over revenue it does not need, opens it up to far-reaching, poorly thought out bills like this from regulators.

EDIT: the bad bill I was talking about was the Competition and Innovation Act that bans self-preferencing services. That bill is disastrous. The anti App Store bill isn’t nearly as bad. Still, the same point stands.

 

[duffman9000]

This has always confused me, how have the game consoles gotten away with it for so long?

MS, Nintendo, and Sony are still the gatekeepers to their platforms. It doesn’t matter where you buy a game, they will get their cut. Their cut varies, but it’s been up to them to decide.

Epic wants to cut out Apple entirely. Something Epic can’t do to the game manufacturers.

 

[duffman9000]

It’s irrelevant whether the commissions are justified or not. The reality is that they are creating developer anger and regulatory pressure. Given that App Store commissions are in no way integral to Apple’s success as a company, it would be wise to sacrifice them in order to retain better developer relations and avoid far-reaching government interventions into iOS that Apple believes would harm itself or its customers.

I can’t wait to see the republicans do backflips trying to explain how government should determine what a business can charge as commission.

In their very next backflips they will have to explain how console manufacturers should be exempt from limiting commissions.

 

[ian87w]

You can bypass the games console store by buying the game on disc. Apple has no way around getting applications thru the App Store without jail braking the phone which voids the manufacturer warranty.

False understanding of facts. Regardless of the format, the game developer still have to pay Sony/Microsoft to make games for the respective consoles. The game still goes through the desk of Sony/Microsoft for approval.

The correct analogy is homebrew on gaming consoles, where you bypassed Sony/Microsoft completely, which is what an sideloading on iOS is. Guess what, no homebrew allowed on consoles as well.

 

[Wollombi]

Sideloading means you cannot verify what api's are being accessed. iOS has lots of hidden api's that only Apple can use. Some of these could allow dev's to circumvent the sandbox. There is no way of policing how the system will be able to be used. On top of that malware won't always be contained by sandboxes as there a numerous ways to get around that.

Further more, applications will be signed by the third party App Store, so the whole iOS install base is at the mercy of what that App Store decides to do.

I have in the past bricked an iPad (the first one) with jail broken software so it doesnt come without risk.

So you make a requirement that the installer for the app has to declare what API's the app will use and what hardware/software it will access when running on your computer, and be signed, before it can actually complete the installation and run. This is a trivial check thing to do, coding-wise.

 

[Wollombi]

I can’t wait to see the republicans do backflips trying to explain how government should determine what a business can charge as commission.

In their very next backflips they will have to explain how console manufacturers should be exempt from limiting commissions.

That's a nice straw man, but nobody is arguing rates of commission in and of itself. They are arguing that being forced to use a means of distribution that happens to also charge exorbitant commissions to developers is in effect monopoly power.

 

[I7guy]

That's a nice straw man, but nobody is arguing rates of commission in and of itself. They are arguing that being forced to use a means of distribution that happens to also charge exorbitant commissions to developers is in effect monopoly power.

Which hasn't been proven in a court of law. That bills have been advanced to force companies to do "x" or "y" doesn't mean the above either.

 

[Spock]

MS, Nintendo, and Sony are still the gatekeepers to their platforms. It doesn’t matter where you buy a game, they will get their cut. Their cut varies, but it’s been up to them to decide.

Epic wants to cut out Apple entirely. Something Epic can’t do to the game manufacturers.

Yeah... Thats why I said what I said. The game consoles have been blocking side loading for decades, Nintendo even put a chip in the NES way back in the 80s to make it harder to make games without Nintendo getting a cut.

 

[turbotech]

Its my sincere hope the bill dies. I don’t care about developer anger. Let these devs go to android. We’ll see how this turns out.

These devs, like myself, already develop for Android. Our plans are to use our hard work, investment, and IP in as many devices as possible around the world. That's the best for our businesses. Great tools like Unity let us develop a game once and deploy across all platforms.

This "iOS Developer vs. Android Developer" thing is a FALSE ARGUMENT. Most developers today are focused on their IP and want to deliver that IP everywhere. iOS is a HUGE part of the overall Device Ecosystem around the world, so it's not an option (business-wise) to plan to not have your IP on iOS and available to the huge % of the world that have iPhones.

So enough with this "then don't develop for iOS, you can go elsewhere" NONSENSE. Again, it's a FAILED argument that doesn't hold water. No developer today is going to be potentially successful as possible unless they're ALSO on iOS. Because of this... the "monopoly control" issues arise and that's what so many have problems with, including more and more governments around the world that are forcing Apple to allow more competition in how things are done in the App Store.

 

[sparkinstx]

Yet Apple allows the Chinese government's MY2022 Olympics app on the App Store:

SecureWorld News: Beijing Olympics App Has 'Devastating' Security Flaw

No SSL, no encryption of personal data transmitted, no problem!

 

[MacBH928]

I have to agree with Apple, having guidelines on how to do things gives consistency in GUI and app quality and insures Interoperability between software. Just look at the jungle that Linux is, there are no rules, everything looks different and works different with different set of rules all at the convenience of the user.

That being said, I do want to have the freedom of installing whatever app I want via sideloading and not force fed Apple dictated rules. Apple can mitigate this by burying the option of sideloading in the advanced settings and giving a warning saying "We are no longer responsible for the breakage of your phone or any viruses or malware affecting your device"

Most people will not know it exist or care to turn it on for their dearly expensive device and stay in the safe zone.