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Can you imagine that you could only buy your PCs from your ISP?

Can you imagine if you could only buy certain PCs from a specific ISP?

Why should we have to do this for cell phones?

Yes we will need to pay the full price of a cell phone but we already pay full price for PCs.

I would like to be able to buy cell phones from the manufacturer where the device is sold as it was designed and not crippled by the cell service provider. Also it can be serviced by the manufacturers or other authorized repair services that hire technicians with at least half a brain…..lol.

Viva la freedom and choice.
 
What I declare as anti-competitive is provider locking. That should be illegal. Heck, US cell providers are selling no-contract phones at full price that are still provider-locked! Mind boggling.

You're damn right!!! I'm with your thinking!!!

Would you buy a computer that is locked to Comcast?

Never!!! But my cable broadband is locked to comcast. :( Those bastards. :mad:
And my Mac OS is locked with Apple hardware :( Those b**** (no comment).

Would you buy a landline phone that can only be used with QWEST?

My landline is locked to SBC which is now owned by AT&T. :( Those bastards. :mad:
I loved SBC but ever since it was taken over or merged with AT&T the service has gone to the toilet. :mad:

Why cellphone should be any different?

Dude, I'm with you all the way :) But that IDA policy has some shady practices with gift returns.

http://www.ida.gov.sg/doc/Policies%2...licConsult.pdf
 
Why do you think Apple went to each and every country and chose 1 wireless provider? To get less money?......no to let the highest bidder win!

Well that's just not true, in Sweden we have 4 big providers, in two weeks only one of them is not selling the iPhone
 
Well this is just scary, that Americans think that this is cool. In the rest of the world the lack thereof would be outrageous.

Dude, is it not true? I cannot switch my phone without calling my service provider regardless of whether I have a contracted phone or a pay as you go phone. You have to call in to get it activate. Once I bought a pay as you go phone and it broke on me. So I went to buy another phone but the stupid chip wouldn't work in it. I had to call to get it activated. Why do I need to call in to get a pay as you go phone? That's so silly.

Maybe my friends in Singapore spoiled me :D
 
So AT&T had them by the short and curlies.
But it is not all beer and skittles.
Aussies :cool:
yanks :rolleyes:
twinkle in daddy's eye or still in their nappies back then :confused:
Euroweenies :D
Real countries like the USA and Australia ;)

Man you're one funny dude. I love your reply.
 
The complete and utter ignorance of people that believe that somehow the government is actually going to solve a problem in a way that actually works just never ceases to amaze me. The government should just stay out of it and let the market decide and work it out for itself.

How many times does the government have to step in and try and "fix" something that more times than I can count made it worse. far worse than if they left it alone. In actuality, name something that the government has actually fixed in recent history?

This is just more bad news; and for those of you who are so short sighted to think that somehow government is going to make the iPhone appear on your carrier of choice, without making it more expensive, or more difficult has their head in the proverbial sand.

And for those of you that whine the loudest about the poor coverage in your area, chances are if you looked at a coverage map. you might have known this up front and elected to go a different way. Even if the map didn't accurately point this out for you, there are people on every service in existence that winds up living, working, or going some place that does not have cell coverage or good cell coverage, so get over it.

Exactly.
I'm not sure I can trust my elected representatives to distinguish between their butt and a hole in the ground, much less wireless technology.

Yeah, good luck with placing these types of decisions in the hands of politicians.
 
You're "when you say whining" you aren't debating anymore is a very weak straw man. I have yet to see you put forth a reasonable argument. Put one forth and maybe we can talk.

And again, to call whining anything other than what it is, is intellectually dishonest. What would you call it? If I remember correctly, I asked you this question before.

Now you're just being obtuse. If you truly believe that to call someone's opinion whining represents a valid form of debate I can only conclude that you were given a poor education. I have put forth arguments and you have covered your ears and resorted to insults. I could write a full 30 page essay and you would look at the first sentence and if it didn't agree with your views you would call it whining. You shouldn't be posting on messageboards as you seem to have no idea what they are for.
 
Didn't read all the comments so this may have already been said. Eliminating exclusivity agreements is BAD for the consumer and the product. Here's why: currently the iPhone is what all the other carriers want. They can't have it because it is tied to At&t, therefore they must find other companies to build "iPhone killers" to compete. If the iPhone was available on every carrier, there'd be no reason to do that. The carriers would all just get the iPhone and there'd be no new innovation. Could happen with any phone. The only ones spurring the competition would be the cell phone makers. Smaller companies would be run out of business and only the big ones would remain.

This wouldn't be good for the industry at all, and I think the government should leave it alone, like about 99% of the crap they touch. FYI, this is coming from someone who would almost kill for an iPhone on Verizon.

Isn't it enough that the cell phone makers compete with each other and the providers compete with each other?
 
Hurrah ! It is definitely overdue. Now maybe we will see some companies trying to accommodate the consumers instead of milking their pockets. Greed is no good, no good. ;)
 
if i want my company to have an exclusive deal with another company that's my right. the government needs to stay out. what private citizens do are of no concern to the government as long as they're not infringing on the rights of others.

Capitalism needs consumer laws and regulation in order to survive. Large monopolies tend to kill themselves in the long run. See how American banks and auto makers work.

Businesses want government to stay out as long as there's money to be made. When there are problems they all come crying for help like little babies.
 
I thought this would happen ... t is sucky for customers to not be able to choose
I don't agree at all with this. That's like saying Father can't choose Sons to create "Father and Sons Cleaners" -- why can't two businesses work together to create a great product?! AT&T and Apple are far from a monopoly. It's just a phone and there are many like it.

I think this would be ridiculous if the USDJ finds in favor of abolishing these types of business relations/practices.
--------

(DAMN --- I TOTALLY AGREE WITH "nkawtg72" BELOW THIS POST!!)
 
it blows my mind how many people seem to think this comes down to "their right to choose" who they do business with, but in the same breath are prepared to deny a private entity the same "right".

there is a difference between your "right to choose" and your "ability to acquire". i hate to break it to many of you, but at least in the US, you DO NOT have the RIGHT to own an iPhone. you don't even have the RIGHT to cell service. civics lesson for you all. in the US you have the RIGHT to Life, Liberty, and the PURSUIT of Happiness. notice it says the PURSUIT of happiness, not the GUARANTEE of happiness, or the RE-DISTRIBUTION of happiness. if buying an iPhone is what will make you happy, then you have the right to PURSUE that, but there is no guarantee that you will acquire it. if you wont be happy with ATT, you have the right to not get cell service with them, hence your FREEDOM to choose.

that takes us to your FREEDOM to buy an iPhone, NOT your RIGHT to own one.

what you do have is the FREEDOM to make a choice. i choose to purchase an iPhone because i CAN afford it and because i AGREE to the terms, or i can choose NOT to purchase an iPhone.

you also have the FREEDOM from someone telling you that you HAVE TO own a cell phone.

do i think it would be nice for the iPhone to be available to more people through more places, YES. but i also think it's Apple's FREEDOM TO CHOOSE who they do business with. a consequence of that will of course be that some people may not have the "ability to acquire" the product, but it doesnt mean Apple is violating your rights.

do i think service should be cheaper, yes. do i think service could/should be provided without contracts to the consumer, yes. do i think coverage stinks, and wish the carriers took their customers more seriously, yes. do i think there are a million other things wrong with the way cell carriers do business, that if corrected would make life a lot easier and cheaper for me as a consumer, yes. BUT, i have news for you, WE THE CONSUMER are to blame for a majority of these problems.

the cell carriers have adopted and maintained these business models because CONSUMERS have continued to buy into them, BY CHOICE. i dont like it anymore than the rest of you. read the paragraph above again, and you'll see that. BUT you wont get me saying that i DO NOT respect the FREEDOMs and RIGHTs that a private entity has to choose who they do business with.

Apple and ATT exclusive agreements on the iPhone ARE NOT a monopoly. once again, its been stated a million times on this post already, you CAN NOT have a monopoly on a product. monopolies, as they relate to anti-trust law, relate specifically to a MARKET. otherwise, by the shear nature that Apple designed and built the product they would have a monopoly on it and could be forced to release ALL their intellectual property to their competitors (microsoft, sony, etc) so they could all have a stab at building iPhones too.

if Apple found itself in the unique position to demand of ATT, in a contract, that ATT not sell smartphones from any other manufacturer for the privilege of selling the iPhone, they could do that. and ATT could choose to agree. on the surface, that would appear to be monopolistic, but in actuality its not. ATT has the choice to turn down such a deal, which would send Apple packing and having to find somewhere else to do business.

what would be monopolistic, would be for Apple to enter into such an agreement with ATT, and then go out and begin to acquire more carriers within the MARKET, and enter into similar agreements with them. if they did this, they would be violating anti-trust laws, because they would be seeking to better their market position by effectively forcing competition from other smartphone manufacturers out of the market. at that point you would say, they were operating under monopolistic business practices.

exclusive agreements are all around us in our day to day lives. beverage companies make agreements with restaurants, theaters only show movies from specific distribution sources or production companies, etc etc.

going after the exclusive agreements IS NOT going to fix what ails us with regards to the gripes we have about our respective carriers. what it COULD do is take one more card out of the hands of carriers and manufacturers of phones to gain a fair advantage in the market over their competitors.

i guess thats about enough for now. ill wait for responses.
 
Capitalism needs consumer laws and regulation in order to survive. Large monopolies tend to kill themselves in the long run. See how American banks and auto makers work.

Businesses want government to stay out as long as there's money to be made. When there are problems they all come crying for help like little babies.

so you're saying our banking and auto industries have suffered and failed because they ARE monopolies?! also, explain the difference to me between a Large monopoly and a Small monopoly. a "pure" monopoly would be when there is only ONE entity in a market without competition, thus wouldnt that be considered large, since it possesses the whole market?

and its not just businesses that want their cake and eat it too. its also citizens who buy houses they cant afford and then when they go into foreclosure they want the government to bail them out too, or they run up too much debt, and CHOOSE to declare bankruptcy effectively running a FU stick up the butts of the people they owe all the money too.

as long as we keep electing politicians that are willing to pay out to businesses and individuals that dont want to take responsibility for their actions, we will continue to see these bailouts.

but i hate to tell you, none of that has anything to do with the exclusive agreements between carriers and phone manufacturers.
 
it blows my mind how many people seem to think this comes down to "their right to choose" who they do business with, but in the same breath are prepared to deny a private entity the same "right".

there is a difference between your "right to choose" and your "ability to acquire". i hate to break it to many of you…

<snipped out a bunch of smart shiz>

…i guess thats about enough for now. ill wait for responses.

This guy totally gets it. I agree in full with you, sir, and find this probably the best post of 2009 here on macrumors.com.

-----

It never ceases to amaze me that people will get all "up in arms" when they can't do so something and think they're "rights are being violated" -- case in point: the recent announcement that the iPhone 3GS would be $200 and then all the 3G Nancies out started pissing and moaning about having to pay several hundred dollars more because they wanted the new 3GS NOW and already had gotten their subsidized 3G phone last year. How they thought they actually DESERVED two phones subsidized within a 12 month period without having to fulfill their orginal bargain struck in 2008 is beyond me. Whenever people can't get what they want (generally), they cry and whine about it -- even if makes no sense. Fulfill your obligations and let us early adopters who bought the original iPhone get a discount, you Greedy b@$T@RD$!
 
while it's bad for the consumer, it's Apple's right to only do business with who they want... i'm sorry, an iPhone is not some device that has a monopoly. just because it's the best phone, doesn't mean other companies don't sell phones with similar features.

it doesn't mean that senators won't get their way and screw up with the free enterprise system.
 
if i want my company to have an exclusive deal with another company that's my right. the government needs to stay out. what private citizens do are of no concern to the government as long as they're not infringing on the rights of others.


They are not 'citizens' they are companies, and companies must comply with certain laws, such as not being anti-competitive.

p.s. Telco's MUST provide an unlocking facility by law in other countries such as Australia. Why should America be any different???
 
thank you for your response. i appreciate that. :D

similar to my various posts.

i wonder how long till you're called a commie supporter of oligopolies/monopolies, blah, blah, blah like I was :D




(and yes I agree with your post :) )
 
They are not 'citizens' they are companies, and companies must comply with certain laws, such as not being anti-competitive.

first in America, there is NO difference between a citizen and a private company. they both must abide by separate and unique sets of laws, HOWEVER they are the same in that they are BOTH independent of our government.

exclusive agreements between two companies are not in and of themselves "anti-competitive".

p.s. Telco's MUST provide an unlocking facility by law in other countries such as Australia. Why should America be any different???

i'll give you one good reason:
because this IS America, and not another country. we are a sovereign nation, and through elections our citizens choose who will govern us. from that we get our laws. and like it or not, sometimes things just arent perfect. and when they arent, we are free to voice our opinions come the next election.
 
The free market isn't providing enough freedom. We ought to be able to use the phone we want with the provider we want. I don't want AT&T. A prime example where government can create more freedom for its people.

That's why I support this. There's no downside to this. Other countries have legislation on this and they have no problems.
 
nkawtg72, thank your for that. I agree with you 100%. People seem to forget that restaurants and movie theatres also enter into these sorts of agreements all the time for lower pricing. This does not just apply to soft drink vendors but even vendors that supply basic supplies and meat for a restaurant.

I can't say that I'm surprised that there are a lot of young people on here who are socialist idealists but when they grow up and possibly start businesses of their own, they will begin to understand how business in the real world works. Some people live sheltered lives in the halls of academia or working in the public sector which causes them to grow out of touch with how the private sector of the economic functions.
 
The free market isn't providing enough freedom. We ought to be able to use the phone we want with the provider we want. I don't want AT&T. A prime example where government can create more freedom for its people.

That's why I support this. There's no downside to this. Other countries have legislation on this and they have no problems.

before you start using economic terms, maybe you should learn what they mean. you CAN NOT have a free market and also have government intervention. what follows is the definition of Free Market. if you don't believe me, look it up.

--------------------

A free market is a term that economists use to describe a market which is free from government intervention (i.e. no regulation, no subsidization, no single monetary system and no governmental monopolies). Within the ideal free market, property rights are voluntarily exchanged at a price arranged solely by the mutual consent of sellers and buyers. By definition, buyers and sellers do not coerce each other, in the sense that they obtain each other's property without the use of physical force, threat of physical force, or fraud, nor is the coerced by a third party (such as by government via transfer payments) [1] and they engage in trade simply because they both consent and believe that it is a good enough choice. In addition, in a free market, force is not used to prevent competition among buyers or among sellers (called free competition). Therefore, force is not a determinant of price, but rather price is the effect of buying and selling decisions en masse as described by the law of supply and demand. Free markets contrast sharply with controlled markets or regulated markets, in which governments directly or indirectly regulate prices or supplies, which according to free market theory causes markets to be less efficient.[2] Where government intervention exists, the market is a mixed economy. In the marketplace the price of a good or service helps communicate consumer demand to producers and thus directs the allocation of resources toward consumer, as well as investor, satisfaction. In a free market, price is a result of a plethora of voluntary transactions, rather than political decree as in a controlled market. Through free competition between vendors for the provision of products and services, prices tend to decrease, and quality tends to increase. A free market is not to be confused with a perfect market where individuals have perfect information and there is perfect competition.
 
The free market isn't providing enough freedom. We ought to be able to use the phone we want with the provider we want. I don't want AT&T. A prime example where government creates more freedom.

That's why I support this. There's no downside to this. Other countries have legislation on this and they have no problems.
Wow, just wow. Did you skip school or what? The free market is about "freedom" for entrepreneurs to start their own business without permission from the government. You too could be free to start a business. It does not mean that you have the right to dictate how companies should operate. It does not mean that companies should be forced to carry a product just because you want them to. Can you force a local store to carry a product. No. They why would you expect to be able to force a manufacturer to sell to a particular service provider at a potentially unfavourable rate or having to provide concessions such as disabling the app store and enabling the providers crapware instead.

What you people don't seem to get is that Apple's iPhone was a game changer in more ways than one. One significant change was the fact that iPhones are sold without carrier branding, without integration into their online ringtone/wallpaper store, without carrier bundled crapware and without a lock down preventing installation of additional ringtones or apps from iTMS. Apple had to concede disabling purchase and conversion of purchased songs on the Canadian iTMS within iTunes directly but I am still able create an ACC copy of a clip of any non-DRM'ed song, drag it to the desktop, rename the extension to M4R and double click to import it and sync with my phone.

Previous phones from Rogers that I owned had Rogers startup logos, integration with the Rogers ringtone and wallpaper store and the ability to use Mp3 ringtones disabled by Rogers even if I purchased the phone at full price.
 
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