U.S. Government Orders Apple and Google to Identify Users of a Gun Scope App

[Kabeyun]

Not bad...

Tangentially, looking through that list is seems so me that hunting is getting less sporting. Look at all that insane high tech. Like putting an NFL quarterback on a second grade dodgeball team. Not surprised many friends hunt with arrows or black powder. Back to the old school!

 

[hagar]

There is 0 reason for apple to give this information. People in the US Have the right to have as many assault weapons as they want, for whatever reason they want

Horrible, isn’t it.

Right...like pay your taxes, limit your factories emissions, follow regulations with regards to opioid dispensing, have adequate protections in the workplace, hire without regard to race or gender, and on and on forever.

The govt might not have the authority for this....but the US govt has crazy authority to order us all around.

You make it sound like it’s a bad thing? You want a society without rules? Where people can exploit each other? Pollute without end, just for short term profit?

I can’t imagine you’re that naive thinking this could work and that we should rely on the goodness and honesty of all people to always do the right thing.

Money talks. People do anything for it. Exploit, pollute, kill, ...

 

[gnasher729]

why wouldn't the Gov't go "after" the app owners or the company the scopes are from and NOT the app stores themselves?


Doesn't make much sense....then again government.

I have an app on the app store, and I have absolutely no idea who is using it. It doesn't phone home. I don't collect data from users. All I know is the number of downloads split by regions which Apple provides me with. So assuming that with "app owners" you mean the people who created the app and put it on the app store, they may have no information whatsoever.

If by "app owners" you mean people who downloaded the app and possibly paid for it, well, that's what the government is asking for.

 

[gnasher729]

This sounds liek Trump administration is moving forward with their demands that social media companies and big tech "find" criminal shooters before they exist. This sort of ask REEKS of government making lists of people based on legal behaviour.

This App itself causes no harm, and unless there's evidence that it was used in the committment of a crime, than should not be providing such over reaching private data to the government.
(HA, bet many here didn't see that coming from me)

I think they are looking for people who use the app outside the USA, which means the gun would have been exported, and likely illegally exported. If the company isn't allowed to export the gun, then using it on a gun range outside the USA may be illegal already.

 

[harriska2]

Good Call Apple. Americans are Crazy. and can not be trusted. As a Brit. you are ALL our Slightly Retarded Cousins..we love you...but you all need to stop shooting each other. you have NO IDEA how stupid you look to the rest of the planet. all this NRA is good is just CRAP. you need the ** right to bear arms ** removing from your constitution, it was based on the times when it took 3 MINUTES TO RELOAD A WEAPON for christ sake ! .. sort your selves out ...

I’m with you. It seems to me the reason why the app is targeted is because the 4chan/8chan forum peeps are using the app to livestream the killing of people and building up excitement to stream and beat death records.

uck. I need to take a shower now.

 

[realtuner]

I thought the info apple tracks is anonymized.

Don’t be ignorant and try to derail this thread into one of your Apple bashing BS posts.

Apple (and Google) absolutely know who purchases Apps. They are tied to your account. Just like Steam knows which games you own or your cable company knows which movies you’ve rented. It’s a transaction where money is exchanged for a product, and by law companies are required to keep such records.
[doublepost=1567867718][/doublepost]Apple and Google will both deny this request, and rightly so.

They both will comply with court orders to hand over evidence (say in a criminal case involving a specific individual where their phone might contain details of the crime).

However, no specific crime has been committed here. They’re on a fishing expedition to try and find people who may have done something wrong.

That’s the key difference and why I fully expect them to defy this.

 

[gnasher729]

I’m not pro gun by any means (never owned one and never will) but this seems weak. Using this app shouldn’t be illegal.

You can buy assault weapons and your fine but download an app and they are coming after you.

Maybe it’s another reason everyone should be using vpns ?

VPN would make little difference. When you download an app, you use your AppleId. So Apple will know that the AppleId downloaded the app. And Apple remembers it, which makes it possible for you to redownload apps years later.

I just checked: Apple has a Visa debit card number and an address for my account. Now what I don't know is whether Apple can access that information (and hand it to the government) without me entering the password for my AppleId; Apple doesn't have that password (not even in encrypted form, unless their IT is run by criminally insane idiots, which I doubt). But whatever Apple does, VPN wont help you.
[doublepost=1567868574][/doublepost]

You see criminals usually obtain their guns illegally and when people can no longer own guns they become defenseless.

When people can no longer own guns legally, the police can just put everyone owning a gun into jail, and the problem was solved.

 

[btbeme]

It’s bad enough that the Feds are demanding this information, regardless of why. What is much more concerning is that they feel comfortable and warranted in doing so.

 

[jkcerda]

Good Call Apple. Americans are Crazy. and can not be trusted. As a Brit. you are ALL our Slightly Retarded Cousins..we love you...but you all need to stop shooting each other. you have NO IDEA how stupid you look to the rest of the planet. all this NRA is good is just CRAP. you need the ** right to bear arms ** removing from your constitution, it was based on the times when it took 3 MINUTES TO RELOAD A WEAPON for christ sake ! .. sort your selves out ...

funniest post every.......... you guys are under constant surveillance and are used to that level of intrusion from your GOVT........

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

A request from the DOJ does not have the force of law as a court order would. Apple can safely deny the request and will likely fight the DOJ in court. The government should not have the ability to obtain such information. If it did, nobody would use Apple's (or anyone else's) services. There is a crap ton of laws on the books that are not currently being enforced in this manner, but can be if the government so wished. This is why this is so dangerous. The government isn't coming for you or me right now, but if it can do this then it can come after any of us for anything. What do you think happened in Nazi Germany? We are on our way.

 

[Count Blah]

This surely has to be denied. Otherwise whats next?
How about USA determines the real problem and stop selling guns to anyone? How is it that that the rest of the world can see that USA has a gun problem and yet the NRA lobby still protects their "silly" amendment?
So no, please Apple deny this.

OK, I'll give up the 2nd amendment right, if you give up your 1st amendment right.

Where does it end? Oh that's right, we all end up like Uighur Muslims in China.

THAT'S WHERE IT ENDS if you go down this path.

 

[webbuzz]

Good Call Apple. Americans are Crazy. and can not be trusted. As a Brit. you are ALL our Slightly Retarded Cousins..we love you...but you all need to stop shooting each other. you have NO IDEA how stupid you look to the rest of the planet. all this NRA is good is just CRAP. you need the ** right to bear arms ** removing from your constitution, it was based on the times when it took 3 MINUTES TO RELOAD A WEAPON for christ sake ! .. sort your selves out ...

This has nothing to do with firearms, the NRA, the Second Amendment, or any of the other nonsense you wrote about.

Funny thing is you calling people slightly retarded.
[doublepost=1567876518][/doublepost]

A request from the DOJ does not have the force of law as a court order would. Apple can safely deny the request and will likely fight the DOJ in court. The government should not have the ability to obtain such information. If it did, nobody would use Apple's (or anyone else's) services. There is a crap ton of laws on the books that are not currently being enforced in this manner, but can be if the government so wished. This is why this is so dangerous. The government isn't coming for you or me right now, but if it can do this then it can come after any of us for anything. What do you think happened in Nazi Germany? We are on our way.

The DOJ filed for a court order, it isn't a 'request' for Apple or google, it will be a court order.

The U.S. Government charges people and businesses for ITAR violations all the time.

 

[Justanotherfanboy]

I think they are looking for people who use the app outside the USA, which means the gun would have been exported, and likely illegally exported. If the company isn't allowed to export the gun, then using it on a gun range outside the USA may be illegal already.

That seems to me like absolutely the LEAST likely scenario I could come up with, even if I had weeks to think about it.

Your belief is that the US government is not trying to get any information on the people that live here & that they can actually do things such as “keep an eye on”, or “level charges against”, but rather an attempt to pinpoint people using guns, illegally exported to other countries... that they’d have ZERO jurisdiction over?

Much, much more likely: they want to compile a list of anyone here in America, that has even the possibility (via this app) of videotaping/live-streaming a gun rampage.
So, they thought they’d try to get information on 10,000 people that use this app (the vast majority of which certainly purchased their gun/scope legally & do NOT intend to go on a killing spree).

To me it’s INCREDIBLY clear-cut. Don’t give them the information! If there is a law stating that when these scopes are purchased, you must voluntarily register your information (like gun purchases), cool... use that. If no such law exists, draw it up & put it up for a vote.
End of.

Scare-mongering shouldn’t be able to come into play, when the stakes are this high.

 

[webbuzz]

This sounds liek Trump administration is moving forward with their demands that social media companies and big tech "find" criminal shooters before they exist. This sort of ask REEKS of government making lists of people based on legal behaviour.

This App itself causes no harm, and unless there's evidence that it was used in the committment of a crime, than should not be providing such over reaching private data to the government.
(HA, bet many here didn't see that coming from me)

Sounds more like DOJ and CPI going after suspected ITAR violations. But, Orange Man bad!
[doublepost=1567878395][/doublepost]

That seems to me like absolutely the LEAST likely scenario I could come up with, even if I had weeks to think about it.

Your belief is that the US government is not trying to get any information on the people that live here & that they can actually do things such as “keep an eye on”, or “level charges against”, but rather an attempt to pinpoint people using guns, illegally exported to other countries... that they’d have ZERO jurisdiction over?

Much, much more likely: they want to compile a list of anyone here in America, that has even the possibility (via this app) of videotaping/live-streaming a gun rampage.
So, they thought they’d try to get information on 10,000 people that use this app (the vast majority of which certainly purchased their gun/scope legally & do NOT intend to go on a killing spree).

To me it’s INCREDIBLY clear-cut. Don’t give them the information! If there is a law stating that when these scopes are purchased, you must voluntarily register your information (like gun purchases), cool... use that. If no such law exists, draw it up & put it up for a vote.
End of.

Scare-mongering shouldn’t be able to come into play, when the stakes are this high.

Unfortunately, if the individual is a U.S. citizen, they do have jurisdiction. Again, this isn't about firearms. It is about ITAR violations for export of an NV scope.

No. I don't like what they are doing, or trying to do.

 

[blueflame]

You almost sound like you're in favour of that. Why do you feel that owning 'assault' weapons is okay? You wouldn't use them to hunt for deer, which this X-Sight scope is designed for.

I hope this request is squashed, as it does go too far.
[doublepost=1567805576][/doublepost]... meanwhile, selling weapons of war to other countries for profit. What a twisted world we live in.

Also. Assault weapons are already illegal and have been for 100 years. What is legal are one shot one pull rifles that look like assault rifles.

A Chinese made apple iphone knockoff that doesn't do the sale thing, isnt an iphone. Even if it looks like it.

Learn about what you fear and it becomes less scary

 

[macfacts]

Don’t be ignorant and try to derail this thread into one of your Apple bashing BS posts.

Apple (and Google) absolutely know who purchases Apps. They are tied to your account. Just like Steam knows which games you own or your cable company knows which movies you’ve rented. It’s a transaction where money is exchanged for a product, and by law companies are required to keep such records.
[doublepost=1567867718][/doublepost]Apple and Google will both deny this request, and rightly so.

They both will comply with court orders to hand over evidence (say in a criminal case involving a specific individual where their phone might contain details of the crime).

However, no specific crime has been committed here. They’re on a fishing expedition to try and find people who may have done something wrong.

That’s the key difference and why I fully expect them to defy this.

Apple brags that they use differential privacy, your tracked data is linked to a unique Id that can't be linked to your real Id. Guess it was just all lies.

 

[realtuner]

Apple brags that they use differential privacy, your tracked data is linked to a unique Id that can't be linked to your real Id. Guess it was just all lies.

No, your post is nothing but an outright lie. As usual.

 

[macfacts]

No, your post is nothing but an outright lie. As usual.

It's my guess of what the situation is. We won't know until apples response.

 

[realtuner]

It's my guess of what the situation is. We won't know until apples response.

Bull. We know exactly how it works. You need an Apple ID to install any Apps from The App Store regardless of whether they are free or paid Apps.

When you download an App it’s treated like a purchase/transaction. Apple knows which Apps are attached to an Apple ID. If they didn’t, then how could you re-download Apps after you’ve deleted them or if you got a new iPhone? The same holds true for subscriptions or content purchases (ebooks, music, movies). Google does the exact same thing with Google Play. So does Amazon.

You bringing in something completely unrelated (differential privacy) is just a pathetic attempt by you to bash Apple for tracking something about users (purchase history) so as to make it seem Apple has information about you they shouldn’t have.


What Apple uses differential privacy for is crowd sourcing data. Things like location, traffic conditions (if you’re in your vehicle), commonly searched items and so on. The types of data that let them know what users are doing in general terms with their devices without tying that data to specific users.

 

[lostngone]

Good Call Apple. Americans are Crazy. and can not be trusted. As a Brit. you are ALL our Slightly Retarded Cousins..we love you...but you all need to stop shooting each other. you have NO IDEA how stupid you look to the rest of the planet. all this NRA is good is just CRAP. you need the ** right to bear arms ** removing from your constitution, it was based on the times when it took 3 MINUTES TO RELOAD A WEAPON for christ sake ! .. sort your selves out ...

Retarded? I thought name calling wasn’t allowed here???

Anyway if it wasn’t for us and our guns you would all be speaking German.

 

[Macalway]

I'm going to have to try this ordering around thing. Everyone seems to be doing it. Who knows, maybe somebody will actually comply.

 

[btbeme]

Good Call Apple. Americans are Crazy. and can not be trusted. As a Brit. you are ALL our Slightly Retarded Cousins..we love you...but you all need to stop shooting each other. you have NO IDEA how stupid you look to the rest of the planet. all this NRA is good is just CRAP. you need the ** right to bear arms ** removing from your constitution, it was based on the times when it took 3 MINUTES TO RELOAD A WEAPON for christ sake ! .. sort your selves out ...

If it weren’t for these retarded cousins, you would be speaking German. You are welcome. No thanks necessary.

 

[djgamble]

Wow! I hate guns with a passion and often support governments in demanding data to convict criminals...etc.

However, this app seems to have a totally legit use. Why should the US government be able to track all of the users?!?

 

[dantroline]

Wow! I hate guns with a passion and often support governments in demanding data to convict criminals...etc.

However, this app seems to have a totally legit use. Why should the US government be able to track all of the users?!?

They must have heard of the quote, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." or something of the sort and worked out that at some point this will come to pass.

 

[makitango]

So I just download the app now and I will have loads of fun when I want to pass security on my next US visit. Sounds awesome.