U.S. House Judiciary Committee Subpoenas Apple for Info on Alleged Free Speech Suppression

[gaximus]

Ehhh, there is still a line. Not a lawyer, but I feel that context and jurisdiction may conclude that falls under the “fighting words” category.

My point is, you can say whatever you want, but there could be consequences, just not from the government.

 

[eas]

GOP led house again abuses power in order to bully tech companies into giving their lies and incitement to violence preferential treatment.

Their previous efforts manifest in stuff like this, which ironically, came up in the "expose" that was supposed to show Twitter supressing conservatives: The Anti-Twitter Files: January 6th Committee Report Shows How Twitter Leaned Over Backwards To Protect Trump & Conservatives

 

[NY Guitarist]

American Fascism is growing and the GOP is leading the way.

 

[Treq]

American Fascism is growing and the GOP is leading the way.

This is absolutely true. But how can we fight it? Those in it don’t see how they are being manipulated because part of the manipulation has been to discredit any source of information that would expose it.

 

[boyarka]

Oooooh, that sounds pretty right wing, according to some who have no clue what right wing means

Exactly what sounds "right wing"?

 

[boyarka]

None of this is true. The only thing Twitter took down was nude pics which went against the terms of service anyway. They would have done it for anyone. The only people banned were people breaking the terms of service by posting covid misinformation, hate speech, or inciting an insurrection.

May I propose a new term: a left-wing ostrich - a person who to quote Adam Savage "Rejects reality and substitues his own"

 

[Azathoth123]

Once again, time for a refresher on the US right to free speech. It applies to the government, not to Apple, Microsoft, or Google and other non-governmental entities.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

My man, you're all over the place with this horrible take.

While I certainly wouldn't have phrased it "rolling with the punches," I'm assuming you're trying to say that science learns as it goes, and that means not blindly holding on tight to whatever one would prefer, as opposed to what is. So in that spirit, let's examine your comment.

"In the beginning, masks were bad and you shouldn't wear them."

Masks were never bad, but at first they were deemed unnecessary for the public. This was partly because we didn't understand COVID"s transmissibility, and also because there were a lack of protective materials for health care workers who were going to be sustained close contact with people who were sick. Around April of 2020, when it became more clear that COVID could spread simply by talking or breathing, and especially by those who were asymptomatic, they were recommended for people. Cloth masks were recommended as protective materials for health care workers were still in short supply, and I don't think anyone ever made the claim that a cloth mask was all that likely to protect you from getting sick, as much as it was to protect others, by blocking larger droplets being expelled by a person. It wasn't perfect, but it was something. This is I believe you would call "rolling with the punches."

"Now, evidence suggests that wearing them didn't actually help."

I'd love to see that evidence. Unless you're specifically talking about cloth masks. Go to any hospital in the country right now and you'll find doctors and nurses and hospital staff all wearing masks. Most of those hospitals will also require visitors/patients to wear masks also, and in many cases, they will require you to wear the mask that the hospitals provide (something of higher quality than a cloth mask). I was going to ask you why medical professionals would continue to wear masks if new evidence suggests that wearing them didn't actually help, but your wording of that statement tells anyone all they need to know.

"New evidence SUGGESTS." This is the problem we've been dealing with since 2020. "New evidence suggests" sounds like a personal opinion more than anything else, and doesn't in any way sound like something that's been peer reviewed or proven.

"Unfortunately, the scientific community has a habit of vilifying anyone who suggests science that goes against the prevailing theories"

No, the scientific community remains open to theories being disproven in favor of new theories, because people who actually value science want to understand the truth, as opposed to needing something to be true. If a person wants to suggest that evidence has arisen to disprove something, then they need to actually prove that, and have their data peer reviewed. If you're some yahoo MMA podcast host and you found a video on YouTube telling you that COVID can be cured by taking horse dewormer, I mean, bully for you, but if you want to be taken seriously by the scientific community, then you need to conduct the proper studies, make data publicly available for peer review and see what comes of it. If you're unwilling to do that, that doesn't mean the scientific community is vilifying you. You aren't a victim because you refused to actually engage in science.

Don't get all pedantic on me. You know as well as I do that I was talking about the only available masks, not the N95 masks that even hospital systems couldn't get. But since you need some hand holding, here's some links:

Masks are bad, and the surgeon general is asking people to not buy them (march 2020): https://www.marketwatch.com/story/t...r-facemasks-because-of-coronavirus-2020-01-30

Masks made "little or no difference" (feb 2023): https://slate.com/technology/2023/02/masks-effectiveness-cochrane-review.html

And in case you want to see a modern example of a scientific body vilifying someone, there's always this gem: https://grahamhancock.com/hancockg22-saa

 

[Treq]

May I propose a new term: a left-wing ostrich - a person who to quote Adam Savage "Rejects reality and substitues his own"

That’s much more common among right wingers these days. The left usually has science and facts on their side, though there are a few… but they are mostly harmless organic/anti-gmo people. Not full on reality deniers brainwashed by the right wing propaganda machine.

 

[PrecisionGem]

What I find really embarassing on behalf of the GOP here is.. Intentionally siding with disinfo, like.. if "surpressing conservative thought" means supressing objectively false, dangerous information, its a bit of a red flag. Yes you should be free to be as wrong as you like but no company should be forced to spread the wrongness for you. The fact they're considering supression of info Re: covid19 particularly is hilarious considering various R states supressed and continue to supress information to make themselves look better. There's a reason y'all are getting hit harder, and dying in greater numbers; because they actually *reached* their base with the FUD. Having people angry is apparently more important than having them healthy and/or alive to these people.

I think the dangerous misinformation about Covid 19 was spread by the CDC and Biden when the claimed if you took the shot, you would not get covid, and you could not spread covid. Yet all the social media companies pushed the misinformation that has been proven millions of times to be wrong. If you pointed out it was wrong, you were censored.

 

[PrecisionGem]

That’s much more common among right wingers these days. The left usually has science and facts on their side, though there are a few… but they are mostly harmless organic/anti-gmo people. Not full on reality deniers brainwashed by the right wing propaganda machine.

Was the FACT that Hunter Bidens laptop story was "Russian misinformation" pushed by 51 former intel people a true fact? Seems the left was all on board with that lie. Was the science that cloth masks stopped the spread of covid, 6 feet social distancing and the vaccine if you took it prevented you from getting covid good science?

 

[Treq]

I think the dangerous misinformation about Covid 19 was spread by the CDC and Biden when the claimed if you took the shot, you would not get covid, and you could not spread covid. Yet all the social media companies pushed the misinformation that has been proven millions of times to be wrong. If you pointed out it was wrong, you were censored.

Never heard them say that you would never get it. They said that it would decrease the chances of getting it and keep people from dying if they did. That was absolutely true and still is. Maybe you heard the misreporting by the right wing media that twists everything to fit their narrative.

 

[jakey rolling]

I think the dangerous misinformation about Covid 19 was spread by the CDC and Biden when the claimed if you took the shot, you would not get covid, and you could not spread covid. Yet all the social media companies pushed the misinformation that has been proven millions of times to be wrong. If you pointed out it was wrong, you were censored.

Neither the CDC nor Biden claimed that taking the shot meant you would not get nor transmit COVID. Of course you would be censored for saying that "millions of studies have proven that to be wrong", because that was always a straw man that covidiots built up themselves so that they could sell their own misinformation on the efficacy of the vaccines.

The CDC were pretty consistent in saying that the vaccines reduce your chances of catching COVID, suffering serious effects, and transmitting COVID. They have never said that the vaccine would eliminates those dangers altogether. They also said that viruses mutate and, just like the Flu and other diseases, the vaccines are a gun pointed at a rapidly moving target.

I understand that the difference between "reducing" harm and "eliminating" harm altogether is somewhat more nuanced than certain people may be able to understand, but it is a distinction that you really aught to spend more time trying to learn.

 

[Treq]

Was the FACT that Hunter Bidens laptop story was "Russian misinformation" pushed by 51 former intel people a true fact? Seems the left was all on board with that lie. Was the science that cloth masks stopped the spread of covid, 6 feet social distancing and the vaccine if you took it prevented you from getting covid good science?

Wow, more misinformation. No one ever said that cloth masks stopped Covid, just that it reduced the chances of spreading it to someone else. Right from the beginning they were saying the masks were to protect others around you, not you. That was true then as it is true now. Cloth is not the best at it, but it does stop some and reduce the infection rates. Which was what they were always saying. All while the white house was undermining all the actual science and information because the president at the time thought he was smarter than the top infectious disease doctors in the CDC. As for the hunter laptop story… I just can’t even with that crap. Take the to the tabloids where it belongs.

 

[ninecows]

Don't get all pedantic on me. You know as well as I do that I was talking about the only available masks, not the N95 masks that even hospital systems couldn't get. But since you need some hand holding, here's some links:

Masks are bad, and the surgeon general is asking people to not buy them (march 2020): https://www.marketwatch.com/story/t...r-facemasks-because-of-coronavirus-2020-01-30

Masks made "little or no difference" (feb 2023): https://slate.com/technology/2023/02/masks-effectiveness-cochrane-review.html

And in case you want to see a modern example of a scientific body vilifying someone, there's always this gem: https://grahamhancock.com/hancockg22-saa

Well… to be fair conducting a trial to show the effect (or lack) of wearing masks in a pandemic is close to impossible. And the January ‘23 study you link to gives a long list of reasons why it’s hard to conclude. I think that one of the major factors was that normal people don’t have the training to use a mask correctly. It doesn’t work when people wear it on their chin

Does it hurt me to wear a mask? No. Will I consider wearing one if I have a serious cold/pneumonia/flu/Covid etc and need to go out in public? Yes.

Would I prefer that other did the same instead of sneezing my in the face? Yes.

Would you prefer a surgeon to wear a mask when doing surgery on you?

 

[PrecisionGem]

Never heard them say that you would never get it. They said that it would decrease the chances of getting it and keep people from dying if they did. That was absolutely true and still is. Maybe you heard the misreporting by the right wing media that twists everything to fit their narrative.

Did you watch his town hall on CNN? He said:

BIDEN: “You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.” — town hall.

Surly being on the left you watch CNN and watch Biden's town hall. Maybe you misremembered what he said. You may be able to find it on youtube.

CDC chief Rochelle Walensky said “vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don’t get sick.”

Of course later she needed to walk that back it became very clear that vaccine people were both getting sick and spreading covid.

CDC walks back claim that vaccinated people can’t carry COVID-19

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has walked back the claim made by its director that vaccinated people don’t carry the coronavirus. CDC chief Rochelle Walensky said earlier this week …

nypost.com

At this point, most of the people dying from covid are vaccinated.

 

[azpekt]

Now you’re trying to two-sides something where the sides are not evenly disconnected from facts. “Republicans” was the correct term in this case.

For someone who is foreign to USA politics, it's obvious to me that so called dems and so call reps *do not* have your best interest at heart, and are equally to blame for problems happening here.

D vs R is Pepsi vs Coke. Both are full of crap and not good for you.

 

[ThisBougieLife]

Right from the beginning they were saying the masks were to protect others around you, not you.

And frankly I think that messaging was always doomed to fall on deaf ears, because people don't care about protecting others (by and large and that's not a value judgment--it's simply human nature). Most people I knew who defended mask-wearing thought it was protecting themselves; that's why they were doing it.

 

[Treq]

Did you watch his town hall on CNN? He said:

BIDEN: “You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.” — town hall.

Surly being on the left you watch CNN and watch Biden's town hall. Maybe you misremembered what he said. You may be able to find it on youtube.

CDC chief Rochelle Walensky said “vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don’t get sick.”

Of course later she needed to walk that back it became very clear that vaccine people were both getting sick and spreading covid.

CDC walks back claim that vaccinated people can’t carry COVID-19

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has walked back the claim made by its director that vaccinated people don’t carry the coronavirus. CDC chief Rochelle Walensky said earlier this week …

nypost.com

At this point, most of the people dying from covid are vaccinated.

I don’t have cable. Haven’t had cable for 13-14 years. And if you want to quote a point where biden was mistaken but corrected himself… well can I point you to all the many, many times his predecessor was totally wrong and never even tried to correct his mistake. Or even doubled down on obviously incorrect information because his fragile ego could handle being wrong. Either way the message was incredibly consistent on how effective the vaccines would be and how they would slow the spread and lessen symptoms. If people were mistaken, it was probably because they were tuning into right wing media who, as I said before, twists things to fit their warped world view. They cherry pick quotes to make their opponents look bad and to support their narrative. And before you go all “what about…” it’s not ok no matter who does it. It’s not how the media is supposed to work. The right wing media twists things and it has a noticeable effect on what information people have. That is a fact and it is wrong. The social media outlets were trying to stem the tide of that misinformation by blocking it. Something they have every right to do, and is even in their terms of service. The Republican controlled house is just on a vendetta because their members were some of those blocked for spreading the misinformation.

 

[ThisBougieLife]

For someone who is foreign to USA politics, it's obvious to me that so called dems and so call reps *do not* have your best interest at heart, and are equally to blame for problems happening here.

D vs R is Pepsi vs Coke. Both are full of crap and not good for you.

Yes, that's because they're both corporate parties dedicated to defending corporate interests. They get in public fights over wedge issues like trans youth, but ultimately they agree on preserving all the major structures that keep anything from changing or improving in a meaningful way.

 

[Treq]

For someone who is foreign to USA politics, it's obvious to me that so called dems and so call reps *do not* have your best interest at heart, and are equally to blame for problems happening here.

D vs R is Pepsi vs Coke. Both are full of crap and not good for you.

No. That a false equivalency. The dems aren’t anywhere near as bad as the reps. The dems aren’t saints, but they don’t have the vast infrastructure of misinformation and propaganda the the right wing does, and they are at least fighting not for the people instead of the corrupt corporations. When people suggest that they are equally bad it helps the right wingers hide how bad they are and creates a stalemate where nothing gets done. That’s good for the right because they don’t want government to do anything for the people and they can point to how ineffective it is. This is why we can’t have any of the nice things like a national health care system or a decent minimum wage.

 

[Treq]

Yes, that's because they're both corporate parties dedicated to defending corporate interests. They get in public fights over wedge issues like trans youth, but ultimately they agree on preserving all the major structures that keep anything from changing or improving in a meaningful way.

But it’s a false equivalency. The dems are nowhere near as bad as the right. The right loves making government not work because it serves their purpose of promoting privatization over government programs. The left actually wants to do things for the people, but gets held back by the false equivalency myth.

 

[azpekt]

The dems aren’t saints, but they don’t have the vast infrastructure of misinformation and propaganda

MSNBC, CNN, ABC, NYT, Vice and plethora of left-leaning idiots on Twitter - that's not enough? So called "right wing" has Fox and some dark alleys of Internet like Parler or OAN. Not even close in terms of outreach for minds, craving for hysteria and blaming the "other side", as if there is one.

and they are at least fighting not for the people instead of the corrupt corporations

Politicians fighting for "the People"? Ahaha, wake up dude. They are not your friends.

When people suggest that they are equally bad it helps the right wingers hide how bad they are and creates a stalemate where nothing gets done. That’s good for the right because they don’t want government to do anything for the people and they can point to how ineffective it is. This is why we can’t have any of the nice things like a national health care system or a decent minimum wage.

I mean, I live in heavily dem place/city - and lemme tell you, I'd better have some rep running the show here (and "get nothing done"), as whatever dems are doing is descending into downward spiral of homelessness, **** on the streets, crime through the roof and idiotic pandering to whatever new reason to be "offended" is.

 

[PrecisionGem]

I don’t have cable. Haven’t had cable for 13-14 years. And if you want to quote a point where biden was mistaken but corrected himself… well can I point you to all the many, many times his predecessor was totally wrong and never even tried to correct his mistake. Or even doubled down on obviously incorrect information because his fragile ego could handle being wrong. Either way the message was incredibly consistent on how effective the vaccines would be and how they would slow the spread and lessen symptoms. If people were mistaken, it was probably because they were tuning into right wing media who, as I said before, twists things to fit their warped world view. They cherry pick quotes to make their opponents look bad and to support their narrative. And before you go all “what about…” it’s not ok no matter who does it. It’s not how the media is supposed to work. The right wing media twists things and it has a noticeable effect on what information people have. That is a fact and it is wrong. The social media outlets were trying to stem the tide of that misinformation by blocking it. Something they have every right to do, and is even in their terms of service. The Republican controlled house is just on a vendetta because their members were some of those blocked for spreading the misinformation.

How is it you have no idea what CNN is saying since you don't have cable, but you know what the right wing cable news is saying?

Biden and the CDC did not correct their misinformation for months until the lie of the efficacy of the vaccines was too obvious as too many fully vaccinated people had covid and yes some were dying.

If you had cable, you would have seen MSNBC most popular host Rachel Maddow telling you that the vaccine stops covid.
Here it is incase you missed it. Any why hasn't YouTUbe taken this dangerous misinformation down?

 

[ThisBougieLife]

Your daily reminder that "both sides are bad/I'm not political" just means "I'm right-wing".

Fox News has the largest viewership in the country. It's amazing that in a nation where narratives like "health care is socialism!" dominate (not that socialism is bad, but Americans think it is), right-wingers are still convinced they're oppressed underdogs just because trans people won't stop existing or their kid might learn about slavery or whatever.

CNN is corporate media, just like MSNBC and Fox. They all want the same thing, fundamentally.