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That's because you don't need the speed. If I would love to play Pong or PacMac I wouldn't buy a Mac Pro for instance, a ZX Spectrum 48K will do the job. But if you're going to work with 4K resolution Film materials and need quick access to several files then USB is pain in the *beep* to put it mildly.

That aside, Thunderbolt provides so much more then USB 3. It's not only extreme faster then USB 3.0 but it also provides additional hardware with power and it doesn't slow down feedback transmissions. So you can drop large files while importing large files at the same moment. It's heaven for studio film producers.
On top of that you can continuously add new hardware on top of the previous Thunderbolt hardware. With USB your slots will be filled pretty fast and then you need to buy extra hardware just to enable more ports.

USB 3.0 is nice, but it's nothing compared to what Thunderbolt is capable of.

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That I believe. It's not that hard by the way.


it wasnt meant to be taken as being hard, anyone can literally put together a computer these days, its simple



as for your thunderbolt statement yes that would require YOUR needs in YOUR field.

that doesnt mean its going to be successful, the NEED for thunderbolt is limited to certain fields and not necessary

we develop code, for erp, apps, etc etc,

the only time we would need a thunderbolt or fireware external is to run virtual machines on it.



im just saying, i dont see thunderbolt getting big, just like how firewire was supposed to take over USB 2.0

USB is just too universal its going to hard to change, and the technology of the thunderbolt wire is just too complex and expensive.
 
Many Lenovo models run Ubuntu very well, so you can get all the benefits of a user-friendly POSIX system on the cheap.

I've never used Ubuntu. I will have to change that at some point.

Doesn't matter what is considered mass market, the poster I replied to was suggesting that "people" don't have money to buy high-end computers and that's just plain untrue.

I would agree with that. Oddly I don't disagree with much of this post.

Where the country is right now financially isn't nearly as bad off as it was 5 years ago and back then Apple was selling Mac Pro's, iMacs, 17" MBP at top dollar and OS X was at $129 so don't tell me that people don't have money to spend on computers. It's about what market of product is out there and tablets (namely the iPad) are taking over as the computing device that many people are buying.

I would agree with you there. The aura of doom and gloom is still around, but it picked back up for most people in my area around 2011. I'm not extrapolating that to a national level as I realize some places and industries sustained more long term harm than others.

The iPad is affordable, designed and packaged as a "luxury item" and not cheap junk, satisfies the needs of the masses. Along with the capabilities of Smartphones and the iPad, the need for laptops is fading a bit. The iMac is still doing well because at home people still want a powerful desktop with a large screen that infuses with their iPad... but not the old clunky Wintel PC.

I guess I could agree with that. They do pay a lot of attention to presentation. The iPad is interesting in that many more people can justify a $500 purchase when compared to a $1200+ purchase. I tend to skip over things like the 11" air for my comparisons.

You're argument isn't holding even an ounce of water. LV and Gucci are also competing in a commoditized market. Nobody needs a LV bag, purse or luggage. There are hundreds of cheaper alternatives that are perhaps built equally as well with beauty to match. Still it's about preference and people will spend their money on those luxury brands.

LV and Gucci make a wide range of stuff. Especially in the case of Gucci they sell the products based on the name more than anything. The name is supposed to be associated with luxury. It's currently owned by some corporation in France. I can't remember the name. My point about them was that they sell an image of owning what others cannot afford. Apple doesn't market their products that way. A lot of their ads are rather fuzzy but just show an entire range of individuals using them. They seem to market intuitiveness and integration at a somewhat personal level.

What's kind of interesting with Apple is that they sell products that are quite popular among younger adults, yet still purchased by wealthy individuals. It may include the demographics who buy LV or Gucci items, but it's not limited to them.
 
as for your thunderbolt statement yes that would require YOUR needs in YOUR field.

But I think you're underestimate this, suggesting that my need is explicit and not something widely common.... I all ready know lot's of people using Thunderbolt technology, simply because they work on Power Mac which are been delivered standard with thunderbolt technology now and because the external hardware isn't 'that' expensive as you think. For round about 200 euro's you already have a terabyte of thunderbolt external drives and for photographers users using RAW materials with collections of hundreds, even thousands, of photo's browsing true a drive connected with thunderbolt makes a huge difference when comparing it with USB. Yes, alternatives makes browsing also faster like with Lightroom 5 where you can make small thumbnails of your entire collection for use in browsing and even editing before you put any changes you've made on the original file.

But even with alternative techniques that makes browsing trough large collection more fulfilling you still have this issue of video. You state clearly that it would be "my field" but I disagree. Digital Video equipment becomes cheaper each year, also 4K camera's which are pricy still but in years they will become accessible for the common user. The camera's also getting smaller and smaller so soon you'll have "common" people shooting holiday scenes with a hand held 4K camera. Those files being generated requires massive data storage but also way fast editing possibilities. Internal lot's have been solved using SSD drives and especially Flash drives, but externally people will deman much faster speed then the current USB can deliver.

This doesn't mean that USB will be taken over, all tough Fireware was a flop (i agree) there is no intention to get USB out of the market with Thunderbolt technology, but thunderbolt is so much more then Firewire as you know when you know what Thunderbolt is capable of. It's not only the speed but it also enables to continually put on new devices without the new of new slots and provide those add on hardware devices with power as well. It also doesn't slow down transfers and is not limited to go one way. USB does limited transfer speeds.

Time will tell, but I seriously think that Thunderbolt is here to stay, not to push out USB but be aside with USB for users that truly need the speed and those users are growing since data storage and creating large data files is increasing as well each year for many users.

that doesnt mean its going to be successful, the NEED for thunderbolt is limited to certain fields and not necessary

That I disagree with. First of all, as said before, that "field" is not limited, for work I see lot's of editing studio's and they all work with this technology, but even more interesting is that more and more friends (both freelancers and professionals) working with one add one hardware thunderbolt technology because their computer has thunderbolt on it as a standard (they all work on powermacs)

Second, see my previous answer, when the demand for large data storage increases so will the demand for speed.

the only time we would need a thunderbolt or fireware external is to run virtual machines on it.

Not "only", you clearly missing out the fact of the ease of browsing trough large collections of files which contains large amount of data and the fact that small agencies are being connected with thunderbolt technology so when two people transfers files the network will not slow down, especially handy when even more then 2 people using the same network.

It's not just the speed, read what Thunderbolt is about, you'll see it's way more then just speed.

im just saying, i dont see thunderbolt getting big, just like how firewire was supposed to take over USB 2.0

That's called sophism, Firewire is a whole other story and even more important, you can't compare the two. You would know if you would understand what Thunderbolt is all about, it's not just about transfer where Firewire is.

USB is just too universal its going to hard to change,

True!

and the technology of the thunderbolt wire is just too complex and expensive.

Expensive, still, yes. But hardly complex. In fact, Thunderbolt is way less complex then USB because using USB requires to buy an external USB equipment to enable more USB ports because most computers only have 4 ports or less even. While for Thunderbolt just one connection enable to put a Thunderbolt hardware device on it and another connection on that device enables you to put another device on the previous device, and on and on without loosing speed or capabilities.
 
That's just the pattern that technology has always followed: convenience and portability inevitably win out over any other technical advantage. It just has to be "good enough" in the latter respect.

Camera technology is a great example of this. 35mm film could never match the quality of "medium" and "large" format films, but nonetheless it dominated because of how much smaller and lighter the cameras that used it were. Similarly digital sensors, at least until recently, couldn't capture anywhere close to the same amount of detail as film. And bigger sensors, like those in dSLRs, are still better than smaller ones... especially the tiny sensors in camera phones.

You should check out the 1020.
 
double the weight, well the MBPr weights 5.6lbs and my laptop weights 5.9lbs (fully loaded with SSDs), most people cant even differentiate 0.3lbs,

I must have grown stronger recently...

Unfortunately, no. rMBP 15" weighs 4.46 pounds.
 
Desktops won't disappear completely. But they will become extremely niche. To a lesser degree so will notebook computers.

Of course as emerging technologies become practical in the coming decades... folding displays, wearable computers, etc etc... tablets and smartphones as we know them could eventually face a similar decline.

i agree with you, sir. but i dont think notebooks will also reduce because no one can easily type on a tablet for long periods.
 
I think we're seeing a dramatic decrease in Personal computer sales due to such a wide range of circumstances.

however, I think the #1 contributing factor behind the decline of PC's is the sheer amount of power available today.

back in the early days of computing, the hardware was very driven by the software that was running on top of it. often the hardware lagged behind what was required and needed for the performance expectations of the software. When new OS's came out, from Wind 3.1 to 95, to 98 to 2k to ME, each version pushed the hardware that was available to it's limits, requiring that new faster hardware be pushed out constantly just to be able to handle the basic tasks. PC sales were traditionally quite high, because it seemed almost monthly that the hardware you just bought was no longer good enough to run the new game / software that you needed to run for some purpose.

Fast forward to 2013. Today. This is no longer the model. Software is no longer the driving factor for the majority of users hardware updates. Virtually all of the software we are getting today will run on even older hardware quite well. Yes, newer hardware will always yield better results, but when you're average computer user's basic needs are already covered by 2-3 year old hardware that works perfectly, they have less need to upgrade. Previously as I mentioned when you had to upgrade from one version of windows to the next, you often needed to replace your hardware just for the ability to run it. Today, Windows 7/8 runs just as smoothly on a Pentium 4 as it does a Haswell for the majority of basic uses. That software driving factor for constant hardware upgrading is no longer there. Why replace your computer every 1-2 years if that computer thats 3 years old still can handle everything you're doing with the latest software?

There are still portions of the PC market that are being driven forward, but it's overall uptake has declined. it's become niche. the only people needing constantly increasing performance are those who are regularly pushing their hardware to the limits for work or play. Not the average user.

Toss in that Tablets have hit the performance point that they are comprable to Computer for your basic web tasks, many are switching to tablet world instead of being chained to their desks with a poewrfull desktop.

Is the world of Desktop Computing gone? No. But it will diminish more and more as less and less people require upgrading their computers.
 
since apple no longer allows upgrades of their machines and the parts they use inside are more or less bottom of the barrel (cheap ram, slow ssds, nics that dont support jumbo frames, some laptops dont even have lan anymore which is useless for large file transfers, no wifi AC until just now)

i got a lenovo y580 instead, for half the price of the retina macbook ($1279) i got the following

Intel i7 3630
15.6" 1920x1080 with 97% color gamut
16GB Corsair vengeance (upgraded)
512GB Samsung 840 Pro SSD (one of the fastest ssds you can buy)
256GB Samsung mSATA (for OS)
Bluray burner (optional HDD bracket option for tripple SSDs)
nVidia GTX660M 2GB ram
Intel 6205 2x2 AGN (but this laptop allows me to upgrade to any wifi card i want, so once intel comes out with an AC card i can just upgrade it for not much more than $20, i dont have to buy a whole new laptop)

Apple uses top notch components in its laptops; the SSDs are the fastest Samsung ones, the monitors are among the best, the keyboards, the touchpads, the speakers are all premium material... etc. Of course people will encounter some problems (as in any other mass-produced product), but the parts used are top notch.

Here is a comparison of the laptops:
- CPU performance is roughly the same
- The Lenovo you mentioned has a 91% sRGB (not 97%) coverage, and the rMBP has 99%. THe rMBP also has higher pixel density, higher brightness, and a much higher contrast ratio. So you definitely have the lesser display.
- The RAM used in the rMBP is on par with high-end offerings (though it is soldered, and that is a negative; but you can upgrade it to 16GB)
- The SSD on the rMBP goes up to 400 MB/s on a 128kb seq read/write (so again iirc around the same as 840 Pro; the rMBP model is also Samsung so probably something close to the 840 Pro)
- the Nvidia card on the rMBP, although a GT 650M, is overclocked to the same clock as GTX 660M (and since the 660M is essentially an OC'd 650, the GPU performance is the same)
- the rMBP is $2000 not $2500; and you could get it refurbished for $1800 or less
- the rMBP is half the thickness (1.4" vs 0.7"), and weighs nearly two pounds less
- the rMBP runs cooler and has better design
- you could install Windows 7/8 on it... the rMBP also has USB3...
- Windows 8 does not boot faster than OS X; I have a top-notch Windows 8 desktop (Samsung 840 Pro + 6-core i7) and my rMBP boots faster than it (I also had W8 on the rMBP and the OS X partition booted faster).
- the rMBP has better battery life, especially under normal load

So you are paying $700 more for a better display, better battery life and better design, cooling, speakers... maybe for OS X too (if that is your preference).

In the end, the performance of the internals are roughly the same (rMBP lacks a Blu-ray burner, but I have a Blu-ray burner on my desktop and can't remember the last time I used it)... but some people just don't want to spend $1300 to get a clunky Lenovo... and would rather pay extra for improvements and a much nicer looking and sturdier laptop.
 
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Why is Lenovo surging?

I must really live in a bubble. The number of Apple laptops I see around me on a daily basis makes them seem dominant. Maybe my shareholder eyes are just really good at picking them out of a crowd.

It depends on where you live, for example I have never seen an apple laptop in the wild here. Just stores.
 
Sure it does. Where is the entry level product for the Mac laptop line? $1000 for an 11.6" inch laptop isn't going to cut it. Apple needs to bring back the MacBook to address the entry level tier which they are currently not in.
THIS. I rarely see any apple products in the wild and that's because of price. Apple stuff is much higher here that in the us and with 90% of people making less than 500.00 a month and 50% making a couple hundred a month the market is small.

So if you build stuff people cannot afford do not expect to get their business. Simple. Hp, etc. have an open market here.

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Desktops are always cheaper than laptops.

You lost me here, the Lenovo y580 is a laptop.

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from other websites, it seems like this study does include tablet sales from windows

Are the tablet sales from windows significant?

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shhhh... Don't break their bubble with facts... Facts are for losers... :p

The comparison that was made was laptop to laptop. I guess you are right, facts are for losers.:p

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i can put together a much powerful computer than any mac out there

what are you talking about?

newegg bro

I've never owned a premade desktop since the 80's. Newegg is it, I have to make a trip north to pick up parts though.

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Congratulations. Half the price, and double the weight & thickness.

BS. A 15"mbp is 5.6 lbs and the y580 is 6.2 lbs. Thickness is .92 vs 1.4.

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You are spot on and I wish there was data to back this! The POS Dell I use for work are limping along after 3 years, and should really be replaced after 2 years.

My 2009 MBP is now 4 years old and I have no plans to upgrade for at least 2 years. The battery is still great and it runs fast now that it's maxed on RAM and have an upgraded hard drive. The only reason I will replace my MBP in the next few years is if it's stolen or destroyed. (Or the MBP incorporated a touch screen soon.)

The wife has an over 4 year old Dell laptop that she uses daily and it's still going strong.
 
Ahahahahahahahahah-

Ahahahahahahahahahah----

ive yet to hear of an apple product since ooo at least 2006 onwards that hasn't had issues from launch... Screen ghosting on the RMPs for example... (rest of list is Time Capsules 1st gen failing PSUs, Yellowing Screens on i-Devices, GPU failures in MBPs, Screens sucking in dust on iMacs, antenna gate, case cracking on iphone 3 and 3gs, ongoing issues with WiFi every generation , iPhone 5 "chipping of paint", lots of HDD issues)

Never ever buy 1 1st gen apple refresh, they use 1st gen purchasers as beta testers because their quality control and product testing SUCKS due to the attempt at product launch "secrecy"

Id like to see them release a product, which , from day one, lasts 18months without a trip back to apple for a fix

And you have had first hand experience with this? It does nark me when people just ream off a load of headline grabbers from the past several years. I had a first gen MacBook, it had problems. Apple fixed them without a hitch, and went the extra mile. I've had a Time Capsule (admittedly 2nd gen) for several years and its still going strong. I bought a 1st gen rMBP and have never had any problems. The ghosting issue affected a tiny portion of the people who bought them. How would you know if Lenovo had the same issues with theirs? Do you follow LenovoRumors.com website?

Please don't just moan unless you have something personally worth moaning about.
 
And you have had first hand experience with this? It does nark me when people just ream off a load of headline grabbers from the past several years. I had a first gen MacBook, it had problems. Apple fixed them without a hitch, and went the extra mile. I've had a Time Capsule (admittedly 2nd gen) for several years and its still going strong. I bought a 1st gen rMBP and have never had any problems. The ghosting issue affected a tiny portion of the people who bought them. How would you know if Lenovo had the same issues with theirs? Do you follow LenovoRumors.com website?

Please don't just moan unless you have something personally worth moaning about.

I have had, personally, MBP with GPU issue, had to fight to get it replaced despite the warranty being extended under Nvidia, battery issues with same MBP, again, had to fight for an in warranty replacement , 1st gen TC fried itself, again had to fight for a replacement, which i only got TWO YEARS later when the class action was going through and apple finally admitted a fault and replaced them, an iMac thats been back twice, once due to a faulty seal around the screen (not the glass front panel, the actual screen itself) so it was sucking in dust between the lcd and backlight, and again to have the HDD swapped, the HDD was under warranty, the screen, i had to fight for because they were trying to tell me i wasn't covered because i was obviously using it and smoking (i don't smoke, no one in my house smokes). Also had an iPhone 3Gs that cracked along the dock and around the buttons so badly at one point there was about an inch square of it missing from the dock connector upwards, and was told i was dropping it there was nothing they could do, this was 5 months into owning the thing... later discovered to be crappy plastic they used prone to splitting (ended up skipping the iPhone 4 and 4S completely because of this) Now i have an iPhone 5 and im just putting up with the fact that the coating on the edge is rubbing off by day to day handling (its been in a soft rubber type case, and the case is causing the coating to rub off, cant be bothered taking this back to apple for another string of excuses as to why they cant replace it, just to get another phone that does the same thing in a couple of months anyway)

Shoddy quality control ,

:apple: It Just Works, on the third or forth attempt

i Still like the stuff, Wouldnt trade my iMac as a productivity machine, or take an Android or windows tablet in place of my iPad mini, and after spending two years with Android as an OS, well, iOS and an iPhone 5 will do me just fine, i just wish they would put more time into testing than rushing to market to keep it "secret"
 
Ahahahahahahahahah-

Ahahahahahahahahahah----

ive yet to hear of an apple product since ooo at least 2006 onwards that hasn't had issues from launch... Screen ghosting on the RMPs for example... (rest of list is Time Capsules 1st gen failing PSUs, Yellowing Screens on i-Devices, GPU failures in MBPs, Screens sucking in dust on iMacs, antenna gate, case cracking on iphone 3 and 3gs, ongoing issues with WiFi every generation , iPhone 5 "chipping of paint", lots of HDD issues)

Never ever buy 1 1st gen apple refresh, they use 1st gen purchasers as beta testers because their quality control and product testing SUCKS due to the attempt at product launch "secrecy"

Id like to see them release a product, which , from day one, lasts 18months without a trip back to apple for a fix

Love the products after they get it right for the Rev 2 boards

Yet Apple products get top quality ratings in Consumer Reports, JD Power, etc....

I have a new 2012 iMac and I guess i'm a "beta tester". Not a single problem with my PC. Exaggerate much?

That line "1st gen purchasers are beta testers" is such a stupid thing to say. Apple wouldn't be the $150b company today if they had such terrible quality issues. Do you realize how many millions of Apple products people are using without issue right now?
 
Yet Apple products get top quality ratings in Consumer Reports, JD Power, etc....

You need to be very VERY careful with these sort of reports and statements. While I'm not saying they're not true, but there often is a lot of factors that attribute to this.

Apple is in a very unique place, and always has been. Often it's their brand name itself that garners the attention and the favour, and not necessarily product quality or features.

I don't want to say "fanboys". because it's not that level, But many people seem to grow emotionally attached to the Apple brand. If you're someone who really enjoys your apple products, Despite getting one or two "hiccups", you're still likely to report that your overall satisfaction is high.

you cannot take qualitative polling of people as true measurement of a quantitative measurement. Having high customer sastification does not prove that apple doesn't have defects. Just shows that Apple enthusiasts are often more forgiving and that Apple does right by their customers.

The simple truth is that Apple computers are nothing more than well designed personal computers. They will suffer the same problems and issues that any Personal Computer manufacturer faces with quality control. And Apple is not perfect. The fact that many of these issues make international news, indicates that often ti's not an isolated event, but often your typical (and completely ordinary) set of computer malfunctions.

The telling thing is how Apple handles these issues vs the rest of the industry that often sets them apart. though, their track record isn't perfect (Attenagate)
 
Whether or not users can upgrade these things themselves isn't going to have much of an effect on sales. The simple fact is that most consumers never do either.

They charge a premium price the priveledge of using their OS on an aethetically pleasing system that increasingly, is form-over function (iMac) or significantly crippled expansion-wise at the expense of a high resolution screen (Retina Macbooks).

When you get laptop systems with dual internal drives and an optical drive from other vendors for similar prices that use the same CPUs, they're not offering anything competitive in a laptop and with nothing between the Mac Mini and Mac Pro apart from a giant, glued together laptop for your desk, it's no wonder.

If the Mac Pro is priced low enough, I'll change my view.
 
You need to be very VERY careful with these sort of reports and statements. While I'm not saying they're not true, but there often is a lot of factors that attribute to this.

Apple is in a very unique place, and always has been. Often it's their brand name itself that garners the attention and the favour, and not necessarily product quality or features.

I don't want to say "fanboys". because it's not that level, But many people seem to grow emotionally attached to the Apple brand. If you're someone who really enjoys your apple products, Despite getting one or two "hiccups", you're still likely to report that your overall satisfaction is high.

you cannot take qualitative polling of people as true measurement of a quantitative measurement. Having high customer sastification does not prove that apple doesn't have defects. Just shows that Apple enthusiasts are often more forgiving and that Apple does right by their customers.

The simple truth is that Apple computers are nothing more than well designed personal computers. They will suffer the same problems and issues that any Personal Computer manufacturer faces with quality control. And Apple is not perfect. The fact that many of these issues make international news, indicates that often ti's not an isolated event, but often your typical (and completely ordinary) set of computer malfunctions.

The telling thing is how Apple handles these issues vs the rest of the industry that often sets them apart. though, their track record isn't perfect (Attenagate)

Perception is reality, and more importantly, perception is $$$. People vote with their wallets. If the product was that bad, they would not buy so many devices. IF the product was that bad, no amount of marketing would help sell the product. You can't sell feces. It's all about what the consumer enjoys.

Besides, can you name a better measure of quality? No one ever said Apple was perfect. Better than most, yes. Perfect, no.

"The simple truth is that Apple computers are nothing more than well designed personal computers." --- well that's the whole point of being in business, to make well-designed products.
 
you cannot take qualitative polling of people as true measurement of a quantitative measurement. Having high customer sastification does not prove that apple doesn't have defects. Just shows that Apple enthusiasts are often more forgiving and that Apple does right by their customers.

This cuts both ways. Macs generally cost more than other PCs that are available. When people spend more, they expect more. Sometimes, every little thing that would be tolerated on a $250 laptop would not be tolerated on a $999 Macbook. A tiny scratch on a brand new Macbook Air can drive some users to swap out for a "perfect" model, whereas the same tiny scratch on a Best Buy Acer laptop would garner nary a sigh.

I have never heard of anyone swapping out a Dell POS because the screen had some yellowing or the SSD was manufactured by the "wrong" vendor. But I read about people going through multiple iPads or MBAs until they got one with the right parts.

To Apple's credit, they put up with these types of folks. Maybe Dell, Acer and Asus would as well ... just don't hear about it.
 
Apple uses top notch components in its laptops;

not really, have you cracked one open? same garbage as everyone else, but with apple you have no ability to improve it as its soldered on now.

- The Lenovo you mentioned has a 91% sRGB (not 97%) coverage, and the rMBP has 99%

im pretty sure anything over 85% is no longer noticeable unless you are doing specific photo editing.

. THe rMBP also has higher pixel density, higher brightness, and a much higher contrast ratio. So you definitely have the lesser display.

i cant see the pixels on a rmbp nor can i see them on my own laptop, my brightness is at 20% or lower. anything higher than 50% gives my a headache. not sure the extra brightness would help.

- The RAM used in the rMBP is on par with high-end offerings (though it is soldered, and that is a negative; but you can upgrade it to 16GB)

the max is 8GB from the apple website, 8GB cannot cut it when i run VMs and Labs.

- The SSD on the rMBP goes up to 400 MB/s on a 128kb seq read/write (so again iirc around the same as 840 Pro; the rMBP model is also Samsung so probably something close to the 840 Pro)

nope, the 540 pro does 560MB/s and 540MB MB/s write, it is one of the highest rated ssds for multi tasking as well,

- the Nvidia card on the rMBP, although a GT 650M, is overclocked to the same clock as GTX 660M (and since the 660M is essentially an OC'd 650, the GPU performance is the same)

i have 2GB of video ram for more textures, any game with lots of high reoslution textures will take advantage of this. i can also overclock my card safely by more than 15%

- the rMBP is $2000 not $2500; and you could get it refurbished for $1800 or less

no its actually more than $2500 on the website (CAD) with a 512GB ssd and 8GB of ram. my laptop has 16GB of low latency ram.

- the rMBP is half the thickness (1.4" vs 0.7"), and weighs nearly two pounds less

doesn't mean a thing, i still need a 15" bag for both of them, in my case i have a 15" backpack. even if the mac was 2 dimensional, you still need a 15" bag, it takes the same footprint.

- the rMBP runs cooler and has better design

actually the Y580 runs cooler at full load on average according to notebook check, also the Y580 is quieter (43dB vs 47dB) thanks to the massive copper heatsink on the side.

- you could install Windows 7/8 on it... the rMBP also has USB3...

pay again to make it usable for games? no thanks, i have 4x USB, and gig ethernet, wifi is not a replacement since no wifi tech can move my VMs at 120MB/s

- Windows 8 does not boot faster than OS X; I have a top-notch Windows 8 desktop (Samsung 840 Pro + 6-core i7) and my rMBP boots faster than it (I also had W8 on the rMBP and the OS X partition booted faster).

no it doesnt. no mac will boot this fast from power off. (7 seconds power button to desktop),

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVYTjk0yRt0

- the rMBP has better battery life, especially under normal load

i get 5 hours, the mbp gets 6 wifi surfing, however, lenovo included a battery conditioning tool which lets me keep the battery at 60% for longevity, i would rather have that since i dont use the battery too much.

So you are paying $700 more for a better display, better battery life and better design, cooling, speakers... maybe for OS X too (if that is your preference).

i paid $700 less for something thats faster and expandable (i have 768GB of SSD, 256+512 and i still have my BD burner)
 
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