U.S. President Joe Biden to Direct FTC to Draft Right to Repair Rules

[boswald]

I can see it both ways.

You pay for your device, you’re responsible for the parts. HOWEVER, if you allow non-certified technicians to install third-party parts in your phone, and it breaks, YOU’RE responsible. Not Apple.

Apple disapproves of repairing your own device for the reasons above, so they recommend you to take it into an Apple Store so certified techs get it done the right way (even though the costs can be ridiculous).

What Apple should do, in my opinion, is support more "authorized retailers” by training them and supplying OEM parts. That way, it makes everybody happy.

 

[Analog Kid]

Where did you get the idea that such a majority of people don’t want user replaceable batteries?
Keep in mind there’s a big difference between you personally not wanting something and no one wanting it.View attachment 1803213

Sure, but ask the question more accurately, “Would you prefer a larger, less reliable device with removable batteries to the device you have today?”, and I think you would see a different skew in the results— and even that wouldn’t fully account for the people who irrationally think they can have everything.

 

[fhopper]

As a former Apple Certified Macintosh Technician, we didn’t really “repair” anything. We swapped defective “modules” like bad logic boards, top cases, display assemblies, ram modules, etc.

I’d like to be able to perform board level repairs. I do board level soldering (both SMD and through hole) at work under a microscope. I’d like to be able to purchase the custom proprietary amplifier IC used in the HomePod or the custom proprietary charging controller IC used on a Mac and solder it in myself (and also be able to have access to service manuals to properly diagnose and repair friends and family’s machines)

You are telling us that you are qualified to do repairs on boards that are multiple layers?!! I doubt it. We are not talking about single layer circuit boards from Radio Shack.

 

[Analog Kid]

If we do nothing then Apple will have their way, making it harder to repair devices and creating more e-waste so it takes people standing up for what's right and if the government has to get involved then I don't think that's a bad thing.

There is no support for this argument at all. Making things easier for amateurs to mess with and install shoddy 3rd party components into leads to more device failures, a less satisfying user experience driving more rapid replacements, and undermines recycling efforts.

 

[Mac_tech]

benshive said:
I wonder how much waste would be avoided if manufacturers were required to make batteries easily removable and provide batteries for sale at a reasonable price. It could be a good first step. It deals with the part that degrades the quickest and there'd be nothing tricky about the repair.

No one wants this. Well, 99.7% of the population doesn’t want this. Get over it.

What do you mean no one wants this? Having batteries easily removable when it comes time to replace it is a good thing no?

 

[Nuno Lopes]

Of course not, there are laws that prevent that. So it seems that - assuming you agree that the speed limits are OK - you are fine with rules governing what is done with privately owned property when it is the GOVERNMENT telling you what you can and can't do...but when it is the company that actually produced the product...that's wrong somehow?

Sorry to budge in. But haven’t heard auto makers complaining about regulation over the fabrication of cars including constraints in power. So I assume that they are quite happy with the limits that they can establish themselves to their customers besides the commercial and production regulation/laws they need to follow.

Yet it seams that when it comes computing devices and software, which regulation is mostly absent, any kind of regulation is a violation to the American way, property rights of the maker so on and so forth.

If you consider the standard regulator practices across many markets and products, this is quite a farcical POV lead by tech shareholders. I put this to comparatively imature views over things.

I think what it may be at the table is nothing close to what can be done in the auto industry, housing, washing machines, TV sets … you name it. Just not as contrived/limiting as computing devices and software makers like Apple are pushing the customers to. To the point that fixing lightning port according to Apple requires a complete new“ handset due to whatever, give or take 550 euros + your device … a thing that a non certified shop fixed for 50 euros … Tim Cook would say its a miracle … prai$e the lord.

 

[Mac_tech]

There is no support for this argument at all. Making things easier for amateurs to mess with and install shoddy 3rd party components into leads to more device failures, a less satisfying user experience driving more rapid replacements, and undermines recycling efforts.

That's not what I was getting at. Apple or there could be some kind of certification where once undergoes scrutiny to make sure they know how to perform component level repairs and the like and to do it right, not some shoddy 3rd party place in a mall. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Shirasaki]

If we keep devices around longer then less e-waste in the landfill which is a good thing. Apple just needs to be able to offer more repair services such as component level repair for example and shouldn't charge you insale prices to repair their devices if they break.

The only thing is, how many people actually acknowledge this issue, mostly those billionaires.

 

[Analog Kid]

A properly written Right to Repair bill would force companies to be reasonable with pricing. If Apple charges $70 for an iPhone battery replacement service, Apple should sell the genuine battery for $40. If they charge $59 for a battery, why wouldn’t one spend $10 more to have the “genius” do it for them?

The fact that people just pick numbers out of thin air and call them “reasonable” is a large part of what scares the bejezus out me about these kinds of movements. Unqualified people driving policies with massive business, technical and environmental impact based on satisfying the uninformed gut feel of their less qualified constituents doesn’t lead to better outcomes. Then when things inevitably get worse, conspiracy theories form because it couldn’t possibly be a flaw in their initial logic— they‘re too smart to be wrong…

 

[fhopper]

Sure, Apple’s Services revenue. That’s about it. That number does not impact my daily life, but being able to obtain a battery, install it myself, and save $30 does impact my life.

If $30 makes an impact in your life then you should not own an iPhone or any other Apple products, you need to get a free Obama Phone.

 

[fhopper]

We have far bigger problems in the US, but this is something Biden wants to do? Neat.

The big Lie in this article is that title. Anyone here really believe Joe Biden has anything to do with this?

 

[fhopper]

People that pay big bucks for iPhones (like me) should have some choice in getting it repaired, but as an Apple Stock holder, I will trust any repairs to Apple, even if they are more expensive. I got stung once getting a new exhaust for my Audi 90, took it to a local mechanic who put on an aftermarket system that was awful, didn't fit right, didn't have the proper design which made run poorly. I bought a factory approved system for close to $700 and had him take off the crappy one and put mine on. Called the supplier of the crappy one and they said he could return it. It pays to know what you are getting. People need to do the necessary searches on the reputation person or company doing the repair.

I loved my Audi Super 90 back in the early 70s.

 

[fhopper]

And that is EXACTLY where non certified manufacturer trained people need to stay out of. Farm machinery is some of the most deadly equipment. 1 mistake can kill somebody.....followed by lawsuits. It is also the same on cars that have a system that stops the car from hitting the car in front....ie Subaru Eyesite....if the windshield needs to be replaced, the entire laser system needs to be recalibrated. done incorrectly, once again, you will kill somebody.

Actually I know how to drive. If your Nannies are controlling your safety then you should take an Uber.

 

[Shirasaki]

No one wants this. Well, 99.7% of the population doesn’t want this. Get over it.

Sure then. Just keep BAU until the landfill and environment issue spirals out of control.

 

[bousozoku]

I think by the 70s most newer TV repairs were done using modular assemblies instead of component level.

There was an advertisement for Quasar by Motorola--the works in a drawer. That brand had multiple circuit boards. No one else did. Most were a mess. Some were lucky if they worked on a good day. TV repair people were quite a group of personalities. Even with the repair manual from the manufacturer, they had to figure out a lot, as designs weren't all that well planned.

 

[Analog Kid]

That's not what I was getting at. Apple or there could be some kind of certification where once undergoes scrutiny to make sure they know how to perform component level repairs and the like and to do it right, not some shoddy 3rd party place in a mall. Hope that makes sense.

There is already a certification process that is part of what the r2r people are complaining about:

Repair shops have complained that Apple's program is too limited as it requires an Apple-certified technician to perform the repairs (available under a free program)

Mandating component level repairs are just going to make things worse— because of the cost and impact on reliability of reworking components of this type. It would also wind up being slower and more expensive to the customer because an hour of time from a qualified technician to debug and repair a complex circuit probably costs more than the module being repaired.

If e-waste is your concern, tax e-waste and let companies determine how to minimize it. I think you’ll find they gravitate to something similar to what Apple has done— focus on reliability and recycling— but maybe I’m wrong. Making a law about one thing (right to repair) hoping it will affect some other externality (e-waste) just isn’t effective.

 

[fhopper]

He's happy where it is currently, see

Thank God for this guy, I never knew before that all I need to do is think what ever this guy wants me to think (so he can make more money).

 

[MattA]

Apple specifically makes their products nearly impossible to repair yourself by requiring things like the battery and screens to be paired with the device. That's just ridiculous. If I have the skills necessary to replace my screen or battery, then there's no reason why I shouldn't be able to on MY phone. I actually switched to Mac's back in 2003 because I could do upgrades and repairs myself when necessary, but they're making it really hard to like them with this anti-consumer behavior.

Right to repair should be a thing, period. If you don't want to take the risk to repair your own stuff, then take it to Apple. They'll be happy to charge you $200 for that screen replacement.

 

[Mousse]

There is no support for this argument at all. Making things easier for amateurs to mess with and install shoddy 3rd party components into leads to more device failures, a less satisfying user experience driving more rapid replacements, and undermines recycling efforts.

This was the same attitude my boss had way back when I was an Apple tech. "Don't tell people how to fix a simple problem (ie how open an orginal iMac, remove stuck CD's) over the phone. Tell them to bring it in for repairs." Ugh.😑
We reverse psychology him into changing his tune by say, "If we tell them how to fix a simple problem and they screw it up, they'll have to pay for a bigger repair."😄 He got the ZOMG look on his face when the realization dawned on him. The sad thing was, we said it as a joke. He took it seriously.🤨

 

[Analog Kid]

This was the same attitude my boss had way back when I was an Apple tech. "Don't tell people how to fix a simple problem (ie how open an orginal iMac, remove stuck CD's) over the phone. Tell them to bring it in for repairs." Ugh.😑
We reverse psychology him into changing his tune by say, "If we tell them how to fix a simple problem and they screw it up, they'll have to pay for a bigger repair."😄 He got the ZOMG look on his face when the realization dawned on him. The sad thing was, we said it as a joke. He took it seriously.🤨

I'll keep this in mind next time I consider bringing my iPhone in to have a stuck CD removed...

 

[Nicole1980]

Apple paid an unknown multimillion-dollar sum to a woman after iPhone repair technicians uploaded nude photos from her phone to Facebook. The Telegraph reported the 2016 payment based on court documents recently tied to Apple’s name, and Apple confirmed the incident in a statement to The Verge.

The case involves an unnamed Oregon college student known as Jane Doe, who sent her iPhone to a major Apple repair contractor called Pegatron Technology Service.

This is why I don't store my nude photos on my phone. I load them all onto my external hard drive. That when if my phone goes on the fritz, my explix pix won't be seen by no dix.

Which makes me think ... time to get a bigger hard drive.

 

[jonblatho]

If $30 makes an impact in your life then you should not own an iPhone or any other Apple products, you need to get a free Obama Phone.

Not that I have anything to prove, but to be clear, it’s not a matter of being unable to afford it — rather, simply being unwilling to pay it.

I didn’t get to having more than double the average checking account balance for my age group by handing out my money for services I can and am willing to perform myself.

 

[benshive]

Sure, but ask the question more accurately, “Would you prefer a larger, less reliable device with removable batteries to the device you have today?”, and I think you would see a different skew in the results— and even that wouldn’t fully account for the people who irrationally think they can have everything.

I don't think there's any reason to think that the device would be less reliable. I also don't buy that they would need to be larger either. Just secure both the back panel and the battery without strong adhesives and bam, you're done. A couple of screws can be used to hold a battery in instead of a strong adhesive without taking up any extra space.

 

[bingeciren]

I wonder how much waste would be avoided if manufacturers were required to make batteries easily removable and provide batteries for sale at a reasonable price. It could be a good first step. It deals with the part that degrades the quickest and there'd be nothing tricky about the repair.

Some years ago, some phones had slide open backs with removable batteries. Not only it made battery replacement easy, it made carrying a spare battery possible. Apple on the other hand always made the battery inaccessible and unfortunately, over the years, other phone manufacturers decided take the same route.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

Don’t worry, no one likes Joe Biden. My post will probably be deleted because it hurts someone’s feelings and spreads misinformation.

You mean no one except the 81.2M people that voted for him? I doubt it hurts anyone's feelings because facts are facts (to most of us), but it is definitely misinformation (a lie).