U.S. President Joe Biden to Direct FTC to Draft Right to Repair Rules

[Shirasaki]

Just rub this in here:
Landfill don’t care about how we argue about right to repair. If anything, apple should be the sole responsible company to handle their devices from design to manufacturer to service to minimise environmental impact. Right To Repair might not entirely fix that but isn’t reducing landfill our shared responsibility to ensure continuous survival?

 

[bigandtasty]

LOVE the headline credentials, way to go MR🤣🤣🤣 We, ABSOLUTELY, know where we're at, at this moment in time.🙃

 

[Karma*Police]

This is just silly. If you can’t bother to get certified in the repair you‘re doing, you don’t have the right to be in business.

I’d like the government to stay out of this, personally. If it’s just a question of who has access to parts, I’m less bothered, but if it forces design changes on Apple the we all suffer.

I agree... governments that interfere unnecessarily usually end up creating more problems than it solves... and sometimes these unintended consequences end up making things far worse.

 

[Sodium Chloride]

Government shall have no role telling companies how to run their business. If Apple or the like won’t let third party repair shops to get spare parts, let them. Let the consumers make their own decision.
Some consumers don’t care, some others, like my self, wouldn’t buy a MacBook for this very reason. I prefer to buy from Dell or Lenovo or other companies in which I can upgrade and repair myself.
But I don‘t want the government to do me a favor by forcing these companies to do something they don’t want to do. Let the free market decides!

 

[mariusignorello]

Disagree 100%. You should be able to start your small repair shop today. The government should be focused on making it as easy as possible to start up a new business.

You want deregulation? The government is making it happen, removing all of Apple's regulations.

Really, this is simple monopoly busting. Apple is free to compete with their repair shops. If you think Apple's repairs are worth the higher price, by all means go with them. If you think Apple's certifications mean something, go ahead and use an Apple certified independent repair shop. But personally, I like the 16 year old in high school who will fix my phone for $30. Kid is learning how to operate a business and gaining skills for a trade - it's far more valuable than anything else they'll get in high school, and I applaud efforts to make it easier.

I once took my phone to a third party shop for a screen replacement and after 3 swaps, the color was nowhere near OEM. I’ll never do it again. They didn’t care and I should’ve never bothered with a place that doesn’t offer refunds (these third party chop shops love to do this, often it’s sleazy impatient Indian guys with no customer service skills whatsoever running them). I’d rather pay the AppleCare deductible and just be done knowing it will be done right the first time.

 

[Whathappened]

There is also obvious limitations to what is repairable. It's like all recent technology, you can't repair everything about what you buy.

Nobody said that. It’s about having more options WHERE to have it repaired as long it is repairable.

 

[sw1tcher]

Can I repair my Sony TV? My router? My...[any product you own]. Ugh. This right to repair carp applies to tin cans connected by strings and electronics in the 1920s. I remember going to tube testers at the supermarket for TV issues. Oy.

Depends on what you mean by "Can I"

If you're asking if you have the ability (i.e. skills) to do the repair, only you can answer that.

If you're asking if you're permitted to do the repair, that may depend on the device. In my case, the answer would be yes as no one is going to stop me, not even the manufacturer of the router. Not only can I repair or upgrade my router (e.g. upgrade heatsink for better cooling and performance), but I can also flash it with a custom firmware (e.g. Tomato, Asuswrt-Merlin).

Unlike Apple, where iOS checks to see if a replacement part is OEM or not, or you're prevented from installing a different OS, Asus doesn't do anything like that or tries to stop people from tinkering.

Ah, tinkering, the thing that Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak did in a garage back in the early 1970s that led to the creation of Apple Computer Inc. Imagine if things were as locked down then as they are now. Where would we be?

 

[mikethemartian]

I'm OK with this as long as Apple is not required to warranty, repair, replace a battery, etc a device that's been repaired or opened by someone else.

While it is under warranty you would take to Apple anyway otherwise

 

[mikethemartian]

This is a cellphone or highly specialized electronic device, not a car. There is a world of difference between both.

It isn’t rocket science.

 

[the8thark]

This as a facebook comment on this article:

i can't wait to repair the individual transistors on an iPhone's SoC

I think we all get the absurdity of this whole thing and this comment sums it all up nicely.

Biden does not have a clue what day of the week it is. The right to repair though? Someone else is pulling the strings there, Biden is just the one who will sign the paperwork to get it done. Just like most things Biden has signed, Biden has zero clue of the details to what he's signing for.

--------

Note well, this article is in the political news forum so political talk is allowed here.

Due to the political or social nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Political News forum.

 

[ds2000]

Why do we have to use OEM parts?

I've used non OEM parts to repair and upgrade multiple cars without a single issue.

Requiring OEM parts is just a cash grab.

Not on a Telsa you haven't. They're the absolute worst with right to repair. RichRebuilds posted recently that they wanted to replace a whole battery pack at 16k for a broken coolant hose. The insurance wanted to write a brand new car off too. It's madness, we need to make things last

 

[mikethemartian]

A bit mixed on this one - personally I'll take the cost hit and use Apple where possible, but I believe there are other people who may prefer to use a third-party, lower-priced option. Where I'm annoyed though is that there are so many issues that need addressing at the federal level, I don't understand why the President is giving attention to this issue.

Probably because of farmers.

 

[genovelle]

This is just silly. If you can’t bother to get certified in the repair you‘re doing, you don’t have the right to be in business.

I’d like the government to stay out of this, personally. If it’s just a question of who has access to parts, I’m less bothered, but if it forces design changes on Apple the we all suffer.

Parts are at issue as well because black market devices are a real thing as well. The other huge problem is safety, security, and liability. Who will be responsible when a phone battery blows up or burns a house down after a poorly performed repair?

Companies should be given immediate immunity when the device has been breached by an uncertified party. They should have a mechanism for detecting being opened and for certified techs to record their access on device and in the cloud.

 

[One2Grift]

Depends on what you mean by "Can I"

If you're asking if you have the ability (i.e. skills) to do the repair, only you can answer that.

If you're asking if you're permitted to do the repair, that may depend on the device. In my case, the answer would be yes as no one is going to stop me, not even the manufacturer of the router. Not only can I repair or upgrade my router (e.g. upgrade heatsink for better cooling and performance), but I can also flash it with a custom firmware (e.g. Tomato, Asuswrt-Merlin).

Unlike Apple, where iOS checks to see if a replacement part is OEM or not, or you're prevented from installing a different OS, Asus doesn't do anything like that or tries to stop people from tinkering.

Ah, tinkering, the thing that Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak did in a garage back in the early 1970s that led to the creation of Apple Computer Inc. Imagine if things were as locked down then as they are now. Where would we be?

Hard prevention methods for alternate operating software in a smartphone is a different discussion than non OEM part replacement. Further, you compared an ASUS to a smartphone. No, That’s incongruous. Compatible comparison is of a MacBook with an ASUS. Both can run Windows, both can run Linux, one can run MacOS (running windows or Linux on a MB not a fun journey but it can be done), tinker-ability possible for both though very notably more on ASUS. (M1 MB may be an exception)
Using some non OEM parts in an iPhone, such as a battery, can be done. Does iOS (ummm, after 12?) check and give a warning, yes. Does the phone quasi-brick itself, no. Does it send a code red to Apple’s Parts Enforcement System (A.P.E.S.) for having a RonCo battery? No it doesn’t. Is a company wrong to alert a user that it’s not OEM parts in their very expensive smartphone? No, the Vast amount of users aren’t of the tinkering skill club and may (or may not) appreciate warnings especially when they’ve purchased a very premium brand such as Apple. That is a manufacturer’s call. (Btw, Linux on iPhone can be done)

You are permitted and no one is stopped from tinkering on any device they buy and outright own (APES is not summoned to your house). Take out your ohm meter, tweaker(a must have), needle nose, dykes, anti static strap and fire away (if newer you’ve likely voided the warranty but that is SOP for many, not just an Apple thing). Make better iPhone hardware in your garage, you’ll be MR famous if nothing else. Until then, is your contention that Apple modulates the iPhone final assembly more than other manufacturers, and you don’t like it? It needs to be stopped? You want the freedom to break it down below sub assembly components? Well Good news, get Back in that garage because you can do that also. You’ll need serious skills and some precision tools just to make it something more than the bride of iPhone Frankenstein. But if you’re invoking the Two Steves in their garage band days? You maybe can do this!

It sounds as if you’re not a fan of the Apple way: extra modulated, lock down os, over limit how a user can get themself in ‘trouble’, premium price etc etc. Nothing wrong with that. My issue is that some that share your view believe Apple must accommodate them. There’s lots who do like that way. Either way the accommodation is just not gonna happen.

 

[mikethemartian]

Lol louis rossman the guy who got caught smuggling a bunch of counterfeit batteries and whos entire web presence revolves around monetizing apple hateboyism? No thanks

Service should be directly through apple only. These are precision devices that only the mothership should touch, and its better for $AAPL that way too.

Im not taking my ferrari to jiffylube

Big difference between an iPhone and a Ferrari. You can’t buy a Ferrari at Walmart.

 

[mikethemartian]

That's not going to be useful if Apple prohibits anyone from getting those components. That's the actual problem. Independent repairers are creative and resourceful people, and they can get around whatever Apple designed, but their efforts usually ends because they simply cannot get the replacement parts since Apple prohibits the component makers from selling those parts to anyone else other than Apple.

If you force Apple to have user serviceable RAM and storage, Apple then can simply use proprietary connectors for their RAM and storage with the excuse of performance, making it impossible for users to upgrade them other than buying BTO from Apple.

Well it is easy to calculate the performance of a connector using SI software so they probably wouldn’t get away with it if it was untrue.

 

[laudern]

Edit: LOL people disliking this because I am not a fan of Joe Biden. Do not read too much into this.

Who in their right mind would ever dislike a comment like that? Crazies probably. 🤮

 

[mikethemartian]

You reminded me of my experience in 1981 when I was working for an electronics distributor. I sold parts to television repair people. Some of the old timers told me about the circuit board swappers who didn't really fix the TVs but swapped the whole board and sent the board back to be refurbished.

I also remember an incident where our PC person replaced parts of an IBM PS/2 until the only thing left to replace was the case with the power supply. It probably wasn't properly shielded and was in a location picking up stray interference (maybe from the person using it) but our PC person never found a good solution.

I think by the 70s most newer TV repairs were done using modular assemblies instead of component level.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

As opposed to getting scammed by “Geniuses” who insist on replacing whole components or devices because they have limited to no actual repair skills. If the current situation wasn’t also bad, we wouldn’t need these laws.

Absolutely, the situation with Apple in the context of fixing out of warranty problems and others is close to extortion … Yes Apple Stores are lovely, people are nice, just because the nicer they are the easier it is to reach for the wallet.

Translation: Asking for 550 euros plus return your own iPhone X for a refurb just to fix a lightning port … that a third party fixed for 50 Euros. This is insane as it leaves you, the customer, in a position of either throw a good devices to “the can” (3 years old) or shell out xhundreds of euros … or according to Apple, adopt an unsafe and if not dangerous behaviour aka go to non certified shop.

They aren’t your friends, your tech gurus, they are your suppliers. That is why in certain cases intervention of regulators is necessary.

 

[ian87w]

Well it is easy to calculate the performance of a connector using SI software so they probably wouldn’t get away with it if it was untrue.

Wouldn't get away with it? Let's look at how much Apple charges for BTO options. They already are "getting away with it" even now.

 

[TVOR]

While I am sure this will be an unpopular opinion, this is a well enough publicised issue now for people to be able to make informed decisions. It staggers me that so many people will buy a product but then expect the manufacturer to change the terms of ownership of that product after the fact. Take some personal responsibility...do your research...and if (in this case) being able to have the product repaired wherever you choose is important to you then buy a phone that offers that option. As somebody on here mentioned that Samsung simply has a parts website where anybody can order anything then that seems like a great brand to choose if this kind of thing is important!

But that's not how it works is it?? No...people seem to have the attitude of "Oh I want an iPhone...but I want certain aspects of the experience to be more like Android...and certain aspects more like Starbucks...and certain aspects completely open to however I want it to be...which can change at a moment's notice..." and as a business owner there is only one thing that sucks more than this rampant, consumerism-led attitude of "I'm the customer so you should change to suit MEEEEEEEE"...and that is when governments step in and try to regulate the behaviour of a private legal entity. Slippery slope to state control and Communism if you ask me...but hey...

Also, what do all of you who support this think will happen if there is a free for all in terms of repairs? A race to the bottom in pricing? Is that the end game for this? Because it seems to be all about money. Not about convenience...but about money. And if history has shown us anything it is that a race for the bottom in financial terms always ends in a reduction in quality. Rampant consumerism and the emergence of cheaper brands in almost all areas has reduced quality. Actually, I can't say that for sure about everything, but think about "consumer electronics". I am old enough to remember when you would buy a TV or a washing machine or a fridge and you would probably get 10 years at least out of it. Most consumer electronics these days you will struggle to get more than 3 or 4 years out of! It's not because technology got worse...but simply because of forced competition on price and constant consumer pressure to push prices down can usually only be achieved by reducing costs...and therefore quality. It is most likely a hugely false "economy" to buy cheap in many areas...and yet people continue to demand it in the name of "Consumer Rights".

So to wrap up...caveat emptor. As I said, do your research, choose a brand/product that ticks the most boxes on your "checklist"...but please, for the love of (insert deity of choice)...stop buying products/services and then demanding that the goalposts be shifted to suit your whiney "I am the consumer...worship me" attitude! I am just glad that I operate in an industry and with a business where it is very easy for me to turn customers away so that I don't have to deal with the ones who I know are going to be endless trouble and expecting the earth...

 

[TVOR]

This will be wrapped in government red tape until the end of time. Any product should last 5-7 years without needing service and if it does need service you should be able to fix it quickly and inexpensively. It’s yours, you brought it. It’s not the manufacturers to decide what to do.

So what happens if I buy a car...should I be allowed to drive it at 100mph? After all...it's mine...I bought it...

Of course not, there are laws that prevent that. So it seems that - assuming you agree that the speed limits are OK - you are fine with rules governing what is done with privately owned property when it is the GOVERNMENT telling you what you can and can't do...but when it is the company that actually produced the product...that's wrong somehow?

So, sticking with cars...you buy a new car...the manufacturer has fitter a speed limiter which prevents you from going over whatever the national speed limit is in your country. The car itself is easily capable of going faster. So do you remove it? Because you are militant about not wanting the manufacturer to tell you how you can use the thing that you just bought? And if you do remove it out of anger at the manufacturer...would you then stick to the speed limit anyway?

I just don't get this "it's mine...I bought it...I should be able to do what I want" when people obey often ridiculous laws and government regulations like a bunch of sheep...

 

[Abraxsis]

I prefer to buy from Dell or Lenovo or other companies in which I can upgrade and repair myself.

It's only a matter of time before they do EXACTLY the same thing, they are already on that path with many systems. These companies are designed to make money, nothing else. They don't care if you are a literal electronics designer who could fix a cellphone blindfolded, they will jump through any and all hoops to control the product after the sale. Why do you think so many cellphone companies have moved to permanently locked bootloaders (which should ABSOLUTELY be illegal)? They heavily restrict warranty repairs while controlling the 3rd party repair, thus forcing people to use their own certified repair places. This has nothing to do with protecting the consumer, it is maintaining revenue streams and suppressing the used device markets. Plain and simple.

Go watch the youtube channel Strange Parts some time. If some Chinese dude can repair/mod an iPhone on the side of the street, the idea that Apple will implode if someone with a legit electronics lab does it in the US, without their permission, is utter poppycock. They know that too, which is why the lobby. If you can't convince them with your illogic, pay them off with your profits.

 

[Abraxsis]

So what happens if I buy a car...should I be allowed to drive it at 100mph? After all...it's mine...I bought it...

Of course not, there are laws that prevent that. So it seems that - assuming you agree that the speed limits are OK - you are fine with rules governing what is done with privately owned property when it is the GOVERNMENT telling you what you can and can't do...but when it is the company that actually produced the product...that's wrong somehow?

So, sticking with cars...you buy a new car...the manufacturer has fitter a speed limiter which prevents you from going over whatever the national speed limit is in your country. The car itself is easily capable of going faster. So do you remove it? Because you are militant about not wanting the manufacturer to tell you how you can use the thing that you just bought? And if you do remove it out of anger at the manufacturer...would you then stick to the speed limit anyway?

This is a HORRIBLE analogy. That is NOT the same kind of use and you know it. I can't take my cellphone and throw it someone's face or stab someone with a knife I've bought. What kind of nonsense argument is that?? Driving 100mph can harm others, me fixing my own phone isn't harming Apple or anything.

A better analogy would be you buying a NEW car and the manufacturer putting a DMCA-protected padlock on the door or using the GPS to setting limited predefined areas that you could drive to. So yeah, you could buy the car, but you wouldn't be able to treat it as YOUR property. Under US laws, yes Apple owns the software, but I legally own the hardware. It is mine to whatever the hell I want to do with it. That INCLUDES removing iOS/iPadOS/MacoS and installing some other OS on the device, just like I do with a Mac. Instead, Apple/Samsung/etc puts in a proprietary locked bootloader that is locked with DMCA protected code. So you can do whatever you like to the phone, legally, but if you try to remove their dumbass lock you violate the DMCA and can literally be jailed for it. Should be 100% illegal.

>So, sticking with cars...you buy a new car...the manufacturer has fitter a speed limiter which prevents you from going over whatever the national speed limit is in your country. The car itself is easily capable of going faster. So do you remove it?

YES. And it's COMPLETELY legal to do that in the US. Modifying cars is an entire industry here. You can find dozens of modifications, and I mean computer based mods, for just about any modern car. INCLUDING the ability to remove speed limiters. Generally speaking, auto manufacturers support it because it can increase sales. No different than Apple or Samsung. If they would unlock bootloaders to allow other OSs to be installed, some people would literally buy the phone JUST for the hardware. That's basically free revenue for the manufacturer.

 

[subi257]

You don't need to go to a dealer to have your cracked windshield replaced and forward collision camera calibrated. There are many outside companies who are capable of doing this such as Safelite.

ADAS Recalibration | Windshield Camera Calibration | Safelite

Does your vehicle have a windshield camera? After a windshield replacement at Safelite, the camera may need recalibration. Contact us to schedule an appointment for ADAS recalibration today!

www.safelite.com

And do I need to point out the fact that if you are personally uncomfortable with having someone who isn't the dealer perform the repair, you can go to the dealer? No one will be forced to use an outside party for repairs.

While that is true, it has changed the game and will continue to do so. Safelite will no longer come to your car, you go to them because if the equipment needed. There will be less shops that are capable of some of those repairs because of the entry level (cost of the equipment and space required for said equipment)