U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee Approves Another Antitrust Bill That Would Allow Sideloading on iPhone

[Analog Kid]

It's not simpler for you. Neither require any action on your part.

If you need to lecture me on how much better it is for me, then maybe it's not?

How to I install Microsoft Office when it isn't available on the Apple Store? How do I decide which stores are safe and which are not? How do I make sure that applications I install from one store can interact safely and cleanly with services provided by apps from another? Have you seen the number of switches and controls and privacy and security options in Safari now? There is no way opening the platform to third party nonsense is going to be simpler or even equally simple.

It's going to require research, it's going to require a set of controls, its going to require setup, its going to require exceptions, and its going to require continuous maintenance on my part. None of that is simple. It is a hassle I specifically pay Apple to protect me from and one that I'd like them to continue to restrict rather than loosen.

I understand some people want complete freedom on their devices. There are ecosystems that are closer to that ideal. There can be future ecosystems that get even closer. If this law passes, then the simpler ecosystem I prefer will become illegal. Not simply more expensive, but illegal.

 

[Analog Kid]

You guys wouldn't need to keep regurgitating all these bad analogies if your position in this debate wasn't so poor in the first place.

Us guys? Reductionist much? Address the argument being given to the person giving it, stop holding people accountable for other people's bad analogies.

 

[Erwin-Br]

I love how people go out of their way to focus on bad analogies while the underlying argument is not in their favor, which is keep the Government's hands off my technology choices.

I don't want Congress to legislate that Macs must buy through a common app store, and I don't want Congress to legislate that iPhone must not require apps purchased through a common app store. Personally, I would like to see Mac Apps more consolidated through one App Store and payment system and would support moving more in that direction but I also understand that the Mac is a different beast than the iPhone/iPad and may justify a different usage model.

With minimal negative externalities, and since neither I, nor Senator Soandso, should be making that decision for every consumer, then it seems a perfect parameter to leave to the great Free Market Innovation Engine. If sideloading and alternative app stores and payment systems in mobile devices is really a priority to the consumer, then we should see Android steadily gain market share. If people really want something that doesn't exist in the marketplace today, then a whole new ecosystem sounds like a great investment opportunity.

You are still free to keep buying from the App Store, the Government is not forcing you to side load. And if you say that developers will not sell anymore thru the App Store, then that would be only proof that alternative app stores and payment systems in mobile devices is really a priority to the consumer. If you have so much faith in what the Apple user wants, then surely side loading won't even be used and the App Store would remain the same... right?

 

[turbineseaplane]

How to I install Microsoft Office when it isn't available on the Apple Store?

They'd likely be available in the Apple App Store as well as direct.

Just like it is on macOS now

And if not, get it from MS direct
It will be code signed and checked for malware by Apple, just like on macOS

You're getting overly concerned - paranoid really - about things that really aren't the issue you think they are.

 

[Analog Kid]

just because YOU'RE happy with it, does not mean that others are as well. macrumors is a pretty biased forum. many of the people here are "apple fanboys" and many are also financially invested into this company. however, when you ask the majority of apple users about their opinion, many of them will be pro-sideloading. because sideloading is optional from the user's perspective, i don't see why it shouldn't be allowed.

If you have a survey of the majority of Apple users, please cite it. I'm guessing if you poll a cross section of America on the question of "Should Congress mandate that iPhones must allow sideloading", the leading response will be "what's sideloading?".

Don't pretend your view is for the good of all when most people don't even understand the issue, and don't fool yourself into thinking contrarian view is the view of the people just because the site you're on has "Mac" in its domain name. There are trolls and fanbois here in equal measure-- so stop assuming peoples opinions, and my opinion in particular, is motivated by some twisted allegiance and focus on the details of the policy being discussed.

 

[jmgregory1]

Again, this is a completely different situation. In your scenario, Target would be forced to sell a competitors product. With sideloading, developers would just be selling their apps directly.

Your example would be more applicable if this legislation would require iPhones to be able to run Android software and apps and the Google Play store. But it doesn't.

So the only change I would make to my example, is that Target would be forced to allow Walmart to include a kiosk in every Target and sell their products to consumers. The iPhone / iPad is not some official public device that has to allow anyone anywhere full access to the owner base.

 

[cosmichobo]

Anyone with Apple shares.... sell now... cos if this happens, I'll bet there'll be a huge downwards adjustment to Apple's stock price just from the knowledge of it happening, and then Apple's future revenue predictions are going to take a hit as well as big end of town app developers in particular find alternatives to giving 30% to Apple...

 

[StupidOpinion]

If you have a survey of the majority of Apple users, please cite it. I'm guessing if you poll a cross section of America on the question of "Should Congress mandate that iPhones must allow sideloading", the leading response will be "what's sideloading?".

Don't pretend your view is for the good of all when most people don't even understand the issue, and don't fool yourself into thinking contrarian view is the view of the people just because the site you're on has "Mac" in its domain name. There are trolls and fanbois here in equal measure-- so stop assuming peoples opinions, and my opinion in particular, is motivated by some twisted allegiance and focus on the details of the policy being discussed.

as you can clearly see in this thread, there are many people who are against apple with this matter. so your side is obviously not the only side. and because sideloading wouldn't directly affect you (unless if you are financially invested in apple, in which case, you should disclose this information to allow transparency and honesty), you shouldn't be concerned with the issue if the US forces it.

 

[Erwin-Br]

Again, if most people don't know what side loading is and if most people prefer to download from the walled garden, then what's the issue? Let those "few" free-spirits download from other sources and be happy they have an alternative.

 

[metapunk2077fail]

Semantics. Technically it is exactly that. You're installing an unverified app from outside the curated walls of the App Store. It's just that the term didn't exist yet before the iPhone.


Hackers will always be two steps ahead and I'll tell you a secret: They will get you by opening an email or a website. Heck, they can even get you by viewing a picture on a website. A walled App Store is not going to save you. If you are really scared and want to be safe, just ditch your internet connection and use your phone for calls only. You know, what they once were used for.

In about 2 weeks days you'll understand more. You should have known already.

 

[vipergts2207]

Us guys? Reductionist much? Address the argument being given to the person giving it, stop holding people accountable for other people's bad analogies.

I mean generally I and others do. However you then had to go off about:

I love how people go out of their way to focus on bad analogies while the underlying argument is not in their favor, which is keep the Government's hands off my technology choices.

So why do you take issue with folks telling others when and how they are using bad analogies? If we apparently can't tell them their analogy is bad and we also can't tell you, I guess you'd simply like for all of these bad analogies to go left unchecked?

 

[NufSaid]

While we are at it, maybe issue a ban on Youtubers or rumor sites from complaining about ANYTHING related to apple phones unless they prove that they have sideloading disabled.

"Security on this phone is junk...I sideloaded this crappy app and now the Russian hacked my phone"
"The battery life stinks on thing" (While running 100 sideloaded memory hog apps)

We talk about freedom and choice...how does that apply when it comes to Apple's choice to create what they want?

 

[Grohowiak]

While we are at it, maybe issue a ban on Youtubers or rumor sites from complaining about ANYTHING related to apple phones unless they prove that they have sideloading disabled.

"Security on this phone is junk...I sideloaded this crappy app and now the Russian hacked my phone"
"The battery life stinks on thing" (While running 100 sideloaded memory hog apps)

We talk about freedom and choice...how does that apply when it comes to Apple's choice to create what they want?

Sounds like education problem.
Many in this thread share same logic when it comes to alternate stores and they don't even realize it.

 

[turbineseaplane]

While we are at it, maybe issue a ban on Youtubers or rumor sites from complaining about ANYTHING related to apple phones unless they prove that they have sideloading disabled.

Huh?
Who would be doing the "banning"?

 

[DelayedGratificationGene]

Yup. First Tuesday in November.

Yup vote’em out!!

 

[Analog Kid]

You are still free to keep buying from the App Store, the Government is not forcing you to side load. And if you say that developers will not sell anymore thru the App Store, then that would be only proof that alternative app stores and payment systems in mobile devices is really a priority to the consumer. If you have so much faith in what the Apple user wants, then surely side loading won't even be used and the App Store would remain the same... right?

No, it's saying that alternative app stores and payment systems are priorities to the developers. If you don't think the fact that Apple is able to apply the security and privacy provisions they do is because of the critical mass of users in the AppStore, then you don't understand market power.

Facebook supposedly lost $10B when Apple tightened privacy. Why don't they just pull FB from the Apple platform? Because they need access to that mass of users. Fragment that platform, and we loose our ability to focus our market power and Apple loses it's ability to control the behavior of the Apps we buy.

By your logic, if you really, really wanted these things you would have left for Android long ago, right? I have faith in what the Apple user wants because they continue to choose what Apple provides.

 

[haydn!]

Assuming this goes through, which it is looking ever increasingly likely something will have to give here, couldn't Apple simply lockdown certain areas of the OS and APIs to non App Store apps? At the end of the day, there is surely no law that says a piece of software MUST do XY and Z?

 

[Analog Kid]

Again, if most people don't know what side loading is and if most people prefer to download from the walled garden, then what's the issue? Let those "few" free-spirits download from other sources and be happy they have an alternative.

Again, they can.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Assuming this goes through, which it is looking ever increasingly likely something will have to give here, couldn't Apple simply lockdown certain areas of the OS and APIs to non App Store apps? At the end of the day, there is surely no law that says a piece of software MUST do XY and Z?

I think they'd need to be careful there to not run afoul of any specifics in the legislation

It's hard to make a great case for them locking out any specific APIs that isn't specifically to play favorites towards their own store. (and examples of what you might mean?)

Users should get to decide via prompts and settings what hardware features are enabled (as they do now).

 

[Wildkraut]

Again, they can.

Again, no they can't.

 

[eroslws]

Yup vote’em out!!

Who are you going to vote out? It’s a bipartisan bill.

 

[JM]

Just give users an option to download from the App Store-only or anywhere, like on a Mac. Put up about five warning screens (maybe seven for good luck). Done!

Wow I had no idea Mac did that ?

what is special about Mac vs. iOS? Is it more safe to download apps from places other than AppStore on Mac, and not iOS?

 

[Analog Kid]

as you can clearly see in this thread, there are many people who are against apple with this matter.

I suggest you and @StupidOpinion DM on this topic and see if you can come to an agreement:

macrumors is a pretty biased forum. many of the people here are "apple fanboys" and many are also financially invested into this company.

 

[haydn!]

I think they'd need to be careful there to not run afoul of any specifics in the legislation

It's hard to make a great case for them locking out any specific APIs that isn't specifically to play favorites towards their own store. (and examples of what you might mean?)

Users should get to decide via prompts and settings what hardware features are enabled (as they do now).

No specific examples in mind, just a general thought I guess. Was basing it off a (limited) understanding of the process they follow on Mac. Isn't there some kind of sandboxing approach in certain scenarios there?

 

[macfacts]

I can’t wait until I can buy Walmart branded products at Target. I’d also like to get an Impossible Whopper at McDonalds.

No one is trying to force apple to carry other products in their iOS app store.