U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee Approves Another Antitrust Bill That Would Allow Sideloading on iPhone

[Analog Kid]

This is a common answer, but it speaks to monopoly power and thus monopolistic practices.

If there were only two stores to sell your goods that's a bad position to be in. And any kind of authoritarian behavior should be monitored. You know ... like this.

And all of that is subjective because while there is an alternative, you can say that Apple has a majority market in the USA, so if you're making a USA-specific app, are you saying it's perfectly viable to sell it solely on Android as your secondary solution, with no other option whatsoever?

I like how people will say that there's always Android to sell to but never really answer the monopoly power problem.

It's a common answer because it's true. The courts have already ruled that there isn't a monopoly here under current law. So we can change the law to encircle Apple, but to what end?

Anti-trust law isn't there to protect developers, it's to protect consumers. You're focused on who to sell to, but anti-trust law is focused on who to buy from.

If there are only two stores to buy your goods from-- one you like and one you don't-- do you think the purpose of Government is to mandate that the one you like must be made more like the one you don't? That because one store is making more money through customers willing to pay a premium for the services provided, that it should be made illegal?

But, of course, there aren't two stores. There are two primary platforms to choose from, but there are many stores to choose from, not just two. There's nothing stopping another platform from coming to the fore-- a challenge for sure, but nobody thought Nokia or RIM would fall to a boutique computer company in Cupertino either. Even given that, one of the major platforms is quite open, allowing customization including adding whole new stores.

So there are a number of existing app store options to choose from and the barrier to entry for creating new App Stores for consumers is quite low. In addition, it's possible to market and purchase products outside of any store and install it yourself. Not a lot of monopoly power there.

And are consumers suffering under the Apple model? If they truly have a majority share of the market then the answer is they've chosen that ecosystem among competing options and made a choice different than that of people elsewhere in the world with the same array of options-- that's not a sign of suffering.

Now what Congress is saying, apparently to a majority of Americans if your data is correct, is that they may like the store they're using and they may be benefitting from the fact that it's integrated into the platform in a way differently from the alternative stores and platform, but they are now going to make that illegal.

In effect they're saying they want to let Facebook and Epic's demand for profits supersede customer choice.

 

[vipergts2207]

The courts have already ruled that there isn't a monopoly here under current law.

“A court has already ruled that there isn't a monopoly here in mobile gaming transactions under current law.”

Fixed that for ya. You’re welcome.

I could get even nit pickier here, but I’ll refrain.

 

[ender78]

It doesn't matter if I or you have a problem with it or not, it's a far broader term.
That's market related anticompetition rules companies have to follow, specially when they become big as Apple.

So they should be punished for their success?

 

[turbineseaplane]

So they should be punished for their success?

I was wondering how long until we came full circle to an argument like this..

 

[AndiG]

This is all Apples fault. It is hapening just because Apples iron grip on iOS. It is happening just because of Apple taking fees from Spotify, Netflix, Prime while competing with Apple Music, Apple TV+. It is because „you are not allowed to do this and you are not allowed to do that“.

Even free speech is not allowed on Apples platform. Just look what has happened to e.g. tumblr, just because it didn‘t comply with Apples rules.

No matter how, Apple has to change.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Even free speech is not allowed on Apples platform. Just look what has happened to e.g. tumblr, just because it didn‘t comply with Apples rules.

Yep -- same with the Chinese government forcing Apple to pull apps that citizens were using to organize and coordinate protests.

Shameful really in that case

 

[ender78]

Frankly, I think you have become unfocused on what an exclusive is. The game makers can choose to sell only to Epic (exclusively) and Epic can choose to market those games wherever they want and charge accordingly.

What I want to avoid is that on my chosen store, I can’t buy an item because it’s available exclusively on another. Why does Epic or another party get limit my freedom of where to buy something.

Today I have the ability to buy any app available for my platform. No limits, ultimate choice.

 

[turbineseaplane]

What I want to avoid is that on my chosen store

With respect, the wishes of the developer to release their IP on their store and method of choice really should have the highest precedence.

We are but mere customers.
Devs are trying to run a business and have many more layers of concern when it comes to the where and how of offering their products to us.

 

[vipergts2207]

So they should be punished for their success?

Punishment would be a fine. Nothing about this bill is a punishment. Making sure Apple operates fairly in the market place is not a punishment.

 

[Seoras]

I don't care about your attitude. No one is focucing you to distribute your software into alternative app store. You are more than welcome not distribute your software in other way.

But what do you make you think that I should not sideload app that not available on app store?

Because, in all likelyhood, it has been stolen. That's theft. You don't seem to get that it 'aint your software. It's mine, or whoever wrote the bit of binary code that you seem to think you have some constitutional right to. You don't.
Write your own and side load it with Xcode. You can do that today without having to bribe a congressman/woman.

 

[ender78]

what about an app called Checks and Balances? it helps protect the privacy and security of all citizens.

We already have one, App Store Review. Works great, not perfect but great.

 

[ender78]

Punishment would be a fine. Nothing about this bill is a punishment. Making sure Apple operates fairly in the market place is not a punishment.

Courts so far have ruled that they are, at least from an antitrust perspective.

 

[ender78]

Well - the Developer made the App
It's their IP

It should be up to them where and how they distribute it

Some of you have some really strange ideas about "choice" and "rights" and who is entitled to what, when, where and why.

I like the power I hold

You can choose not to buy an Apple device.
Plenty of other choices.

But I like Apple and the current app environment. Why restrict a freedom I have today,?

 

[fernelius]

This. With as absurdly buggy as iOS 15 and Monterey are, I do not have faith Apple can fully 100% secure this hook for the first couple iOS versions.

Due to the complexity of these platforms, I would NEVER have confidence Apple (or any developer) could fully 100% secure this hook for any number of future iOS versions. They might approach that with ADA/SPARK, but that’s incredibly expensive and time-consuming. This is the development language and annotation used for DO-178B levels used in commercial aviation (and information assurance platforms).

 

[ian87w]

It's sad news when my privacy and security are being compromised by a bunch of old white people.

Next should be automobiles. Tesla, you're next. Elon, you better start tweeting. Watch out for these vultures.

 

[Thebrochure]

If these politically-motivated, grand-standing fools in Washington DC are really determined to force businesses into doing their bidding for votes... why not go all the way and make it a law that Apple has to allow us to downgrade to any version iOS we want, as long as our device originally ran on it? Got a 4S you can't let go of? Go back to iOS 6, and enjoy the device you paid for. Don't like the way half your games don't work anymore, because Apple made the developers update their apps or else? Downgrade, and bring them back!

I mean, why stop at this chump change? Why not just have the government crawl up the behinds of every business, and do it right?

 

[Thebrochure]

It's sad news when my privacy and security are being compromised by a bunch of old white people.

Next should be automobiles. Tesla, you're next. Elon, you better start tweeting. Watch out for these vultures.

You want to know how to tell if something you said is offensive/racist? Replace the word White with Black (or another minatory group of your choosing), and see how it feels. Go on. Give it a shot. You'll be pleasantly surprised. I guarantee it.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Why restrict a freedom I have today,?

Adding more ways for developers to distribute their Apps ≠ restricting your freedoms

 

[ian87w]

You want to know how to tell if something you said is offensive/racist? Replace the word White with Black (or another minatory group of your choosing), and see how it feels. Go on. Give it a shot. You'll be pleasantly surprised. I guarantee it.

Go look at US senate.

 

[Seoras]

if any of you guys in this forum are defending apple in this case, can you at least do a solid and admit whether or not you are financially invested in apple? thank you.

I own no shares in Apple.
I am a developer who's published on the Apple App Store for about a decade now. Successfully too.
I'm defending Apple because what they created enabled many like me to make a good living without having to worry about local/regional/national tax and laws, credit card companies, refunds etc etc. OK 30% was a bit much but I'm happy now at 15%.
I'm also defending Apple because iOS is my preferred mobile platform and one of the reason it is my preference is the security and the PRIVACY that Apple is baking into the package that I'm paying for.
I don't want this changed either as an end user or as a developer.
I've not spoken to anyone I personally know who wants these changes.
So just as I've disclosed my interests I'd like those who have tried to shout me down on here to disclose what smart phone they are currently using? One person in particular is obviously firmly in camp Google and just here to pour fuel on flames.
No one wants this other Gov Spooks, Google, Facebook and Epic. Who Apple have bitch slapped in their privacy crusade.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I'm also defending Apple because iOS is my preferred mobile platform and one of the reason it is my preference is the security and the PRIVACY that Apple is baking into the package that I'm paying for.

What specific security and privacy features are they providing that wouldn't be available to any App that is code signed, but not distributed through the specific Apple App Store?

Please don't tell me you think App review itself is responsible for catching anything of real substance that is a threat..

 

[dk001]

….

if any of you guys in this forum are defending apple in this case, can you at least do a solid and admit whether or not you are financially invested in apple? thank you.

I own Apple stock.
I would like to have alternative app stores and direct buy from devs become available.

 

[ian87w]

I own no shares in Apple.
I am a developer who's published on the Apple App Store for about a decade now. Successfully too.
I'm defending Apple because what they created enabled many like me to make a good living without having to worry about local/regional/national tax and laws, credit card companies, refunds etc etc. OK 30% was a bit much but I'm happy now at 15%.
I'm also defending Apple because iOS is my preferred mobile platform and one of the reason it is my preference is the security and the PRIVACY that Apple is baking into the package that I'm paying for.
I don't want this changed either as an end user or as a developer.
I've not spoken to anyone I personally know who wants these changes.
So just as I've disclosed my interests I'd like those who have tried to shout me down on here to disclose what smart phone they are currently using? One person in particular is obviously firmly in camp Google and just here to pour fuel on flames.
No one wants this other Gov Spooks, Google, Facebook and Epic. Who Apple have bitch slapped in their privacy crusade.

Exactly. The fact that this has to be a "priority" for the senate shows how ill intent the bill is.

I chose Android for my primary driver because of its flexibility. At the same time I use an iphone for my banking apps due to the privacy and security. I don't want both platforms to be more of the same. I like the current choice because there's clear differentiation, an actual choice. Open platform (Android) and walked garden (iOS). Removing that differentiation means removing choice.

 

[vipergts2207]

Courts so far have ruled that they are, at least from an antitrust perspective.

U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee Approves Another Antitrust Bill That Would Allow Sideloading on iPhone

“A court has already ruled that there isn't a monopoly here in mobile gaming transactions under current law.” Fixed that for ya. You’re welcome. I could get even nit pickier here, but I’ll refrain.

forums.macrumors.com

 

[huge_apple_fangirl]

Thankfully Apple has taken off the blind fold already and we all know now that we were being digitally raped.

“digitally raped”?

It's war on Apple and us. Don't fool yourself that Apple is the target, they're just in the way to getting you.

That’s very, very wrong on many levels.