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In response to a couple comments.

When you get your license, you're consenting to all stops and searches whilst driving.

"Legal" detainment, and "legal" searches with "probable cause".

Regarding Michigan; I lived there for 8 years. The state with No-Fault insurance, you hit my car and I pay for it, bumper to bumper 70+ mph in the middle of snowstorms, and the famous Michigan left turns (where they never look for on-coming traffic first)... you might want to read this as well:

On the other hand, dissenting Justice Stevens countered that "the findings of the trial court, based on an extensive record and affirmed by the Michigan Court of Appeals, indicate that the net effect of sobriety checkpoints on traffic safety is infinitesimal and possibly negative."
 
I actually agree. Pull 'em. It may be censorship, but it's dangerous not to.

If someone has the clearness of mind to check their DUI app, then I imagine they can probably drive home. DUI related deaths used to be in the 50,000 range, now they are way down due to increased vigilance and public pressure to use DD's and taxis. Those that still kill are more than likely so intoxicated that they barley know their own name, let alone have the state of mind to check an app and adjust their route home. Living in Arizona, I am witness to DUI laws out of control. Check points and use of pull over traffic violations (taillight out or your right turn was a little wide) have made enforcement a revenue machine for the state and a life destroyer for people that had 2-3 beers after work. I image the statistics for death from DUI would show that those blowing a significant level of alcohol are the ones killing others on the street. They will still get caught in the roadblocks, since they probably have no idea where they are, let alone where their phone might be. I drive home from work late at night and have had to call in severe DUI's drives several times. Sadly, it takes around 20-30 minutes before I can get an officer to respond. They are probably out checking so many people randomly that they miss many of the drivers that are actually dangerous. In Arizona, these pull overs allow the officer to check more than the driver's alcohol level. They have become de facto search and seizer operations for pot and guns. It amazes me that this is considered efficient policing. The dozen or so times I have called in specific threats of burglary or other crimes in my neighbor hood, the response time is 30 minutes to several hours. I do not blame the individual cops, rather, I blame those that design the policies behind the enforcement.
 
But that's the thing - surprise checks are illegal. So while you think it's reasonable, it is in fact illegal. You must either consent to the search, or they are required to have probable cause to force a search. Period.

The difference between "reasonable" and "unreasonable" searches is probable cause. Probable cause meaning they have witnessed you violating a law, found some physical evidence that you've violated a law, or have received information from another source (a 911 call for example) indicating that you may be violating the law.

Good for you for reading the 4th amendment, and wanting to know your rights.


See Michigan v. Sitz, 496 U.S. 444.
 
No one likes drunk drivers. No one. Period. That being said, Apple should not pull the App. Speed trap apps will be next (Trapster)... Keep the app store open to everything thats legal. This is no different than a friend calling you telling you to avoid a check point. Neither is illegal.

I agree. Apple should not pull this one. If you do not want or like the application then don't download it!
 
In response to a couple comments.

When you get your license, you're consenting to all stops and searches whilst driving.

Not true. Unless you are being arrested for a criminal act, or the officer has probably cause (he smells pot smoke emanating from you car) you have a right to refuse search. You cannot be searched just because you have a drivers license and you were pulled over from something non-criminal. A DUI arrest does allow for search based on my above statements. Actually, an officer must ask permission to search unless he has reasonable suspicion of a felony. One should always say no when asked if it is okay to search your person or property without probable cause.
 
Ridiculous - Don't Pull It!

First of all, if they are concerned with the content of these apps they should contact the developer, not the third party distributor. Second, unlike porn apps which creates an argument that there is a possibility that a child could use the app thereby creating a direct negative consequence, there is no such risk here. Basically, someone is asking Apple (since they are the most affected by the negative publicity) to pull an app which requires SO many steps for someone to really potentially cause harm to another, here is what would have to happen: (1) someone would have to personally know of a DUI checkpoint, (2) they would have to get out their iPhone, (3) open the Trapster app, (4) enter in the information (which there is no incentive to do and takes a little while, while on the road much less), (5) the information has to update with the Trapster servers, (6) someone else who is assumably intoxicated has to consciously think of opening up the app on their iPhone (which, if they're intoxicated is unlikely SINCE THEY ARE APPARENTLY NOT THINKING CLEARLY), (7) they have to load up their area/route, (8) then avoid the trap by taking another route, (9) they still have to avoid other normal police officers, (10) get in to an accident and injury another party.

So, are you really telling me that it is worth Apple pulling an app to potentially avoid some extremely unlikely scenario like I previously mentioned? Has anyone ever used Trapster? It has been out for a long time and depends on other user's input, which not very many people do therefore making it extremely unreliable. I highly doubt that someone is going to rely, and correctly so, on information that someone else has to enter and gets them no benefit for doing so. Besides, most of this information is publicly accessible. I'm not sure about DUI traps, but I know that speed traps are announced in the paper on a daily basis, BUT NO ONE READS IT! This is just stupid, a dumb request ESPECIALLY to be making to Apple out of all people.

I mean, if someone is really that concerned in their area, you can just go post fake check points or report an error with correct ones posted. I mean, the software is only as effective as the people entering the information, and when that information changes on a daily or hourly basis, believe me, it is NOT reliable and, as such, people are not going to rely on it.
 
You know, I do !!!NOT !!! support drinking and driving.. With that said, Even worse then that is "Warrantless Searches" .. These cops get paid to be their, my time is JUST as valuable as theirs. When I have to sit in a line and wait, or answer questions with OUT "probable cause", that is LOST time to me and a CLEAR invasion of my privacy... Sadly I suspect Apple will fold but that does not make what Apple or RIM does right..

IMO
 
Seems like a violation of free speach to me.

I highly doubt these apps actually help drunks avoid the police. For one, someone must report the trap before the drunk who is also using the app gets to the trap. Also the drunk needs to actually have the app and use it at the right time to know to avoid the trap.

If these types of apps are to be banned they should pass a law that it is illegal to use them to avoid police then make it the polices responsibility to enforce. It isn't Apples job to filter this kind of thing.
 
We should probably just ban all mobile computing & cars all together.

And legislate off the neutrality of the Internet to the highest bidder.

Oh! And can we approve a merger b/w AT&T, Verizon & Sprint? It will be "good for the consumer."
 
(6) someone else who is assumably intoxicated has to consciously think of opening up the app on their iPhone (which, if they're intoxicated is unlikely SINCE THEY ARE APPARENTLY NOT THINKING CLEARLY)

How old are you? Have you ever been drunk?

You know it only takes two drinks to get the average person legally intoxicated, right?

I have been drunk plenty of times at the bar and using my iPhone to drunk dial, text, email, take pics, text pics, and call friends is totally par for the course. Sure, I make a lot of typos, and have had a few texts make it to Texts From Last Night, but my point is there's a difference between being drunk-and-functional and incompassitated, legally intoxicated and blackout city.

It is never a good idea to drink and drive, no matter how much or how long it's been since the last drink. It's always better to be safe than sorry.
 
Not only do you not know the legality of drunk driving checkpoints, you equate a person's sexual preference to pedophilia. On top of that, you call people at Fox News "capitalist pigs".

You truly are a perfect example of a dillusional left-wing scum bag.

Well done.

Haha! Dude, here's my quote...
So an app that shows paedophiles where the nearest school playgrounds are located would be ok. Who cares? Let everyone live their life in peace.
These types of app help you break a law that's designed to protect people, how could Apple ever defend the idea of putting the lives of people at terrible risk just to make a few dollars more?
I guess socialism has its upsides, even though the capitalist pigs at Fox say otherwise.
Where did I equate a person's sexual preferences to paedophila? Perhaps it awoke something in your darkest subconscious, idk.
 
Genuine question: how do people against the police being allowed to randomly check people in dangerous vehicles on the road feel about airport security? Isn't going through 'nude' X-ray machines or having an intimate 'pat down' more invasive than being checked for alcohol consumption? If Apple were carrying an app that let you avoid airport security, would that be a good thing? In fact if it should be legal that checkpoints for cars be announced and alternative routes provided, why is this not the case for a trip by airplanes, just road vehicles? Where is the difference in principle? And remember, air passengers aren't even driving.

I should say I think the world is way over the top about security in lots of places and way too lax in others. But I'm still having trouble seeing DUI checkpoints as anything like as big an infringement on civil liberties/rights as plenty of other things that go by all the time without anything like the fuss in this thread. Maybe it's a cultural thing, I'm a brit and the police don't have to tell us if they are waiting to catch speeders, though there are signs up for cameras. We don't tend to have checkpoints though, I think random stops probably are more effective, and make apps like these redundant.
 
Publishing is part of NHTSA guidelines

Are the senators unaware that publishing these locations is part of NHTSA guidelines for sobriety checkpoints?

A written sobriety checkpoint plan outlining procedures for the activity is required under current judicial guidelines (Stitz v. Michigan Department of Public Safety) in order to minimize intrusion and officer discretion, as well as establish site selection and publicity.
Link for above quote

4th Amendment Reference (supreme court ruling)

I wonder if the senators ever tried to contact the makers of the applications to ask them nicely to remove it?
 
Genuine question: how do people against the police being allowed to randomly check people in dangerous vehicles on the road feel about airport security? Isn't going through 'nude' X-ray machines or having an intimate 'pat down' more invasive than being checked for alcohol consumption? If Apple were carrying an app that let you avoid airport security, would that be a good thing? In fact if it should be legal that checkpoints for cars be announced and alternative routes provided, why is this not the case for a trip by airplanes, just road vehicles? Where is the difference in principle? And remember, air passengers aren't even driving.

I should say I think the world is way over the top about security in lots of places and way too lax in others. But I'm still having trouble seeing DUI checkpoints as anything like as big an infringement on civil liberties/rights as plenty of other things that go by all the time without anything like the fuss in this thread. Maybe it's a cultural thing, I'm a brit and the police don't have to tell us if they are waiting to catch speeders, though there are signs up for cameras. We don't tend to have checkpoints though, I think random stops probably are more effective, and make apps like these redundant.

Genuine answer: I hate it, it's a major inconvenience, but I would never compare drunk drivers to terrorist intent on causing as much collateral damage; the loss of hundreds (or thousands) of human "civilian" lives as possible. Also, airports are hubs for multinational travelers, it's not just Americans being searched.

I will concede to one thing though; I don't mind being patted down, if she's cute. ;)
 
In response to a couple comments.

When you get your license, you're consenting to all stops and searches whilst driving.
Not true. I've been pulled over before and the police have asked if it's alright for them to search my vehicle. I always respond with a firm "No you may not". They are then required to obtain a warrant, which they cannot obtain unless they have probable cause. Every single time I have declined to allow a search, I was let go and no search was performed. They aren't going to hassle with getting a warrant unless they absolutely know you've got something illegal hiding inside your car (which I do not).

How do you account for this scenario?
 
Genuine answer: I hate it, it's a major inconvenience, but I would never compare drunk drivers to terrorist intent on causing as much collateral damage; the loss of hundreds (or thousands) of human "civilian" lives as possible. Also, airports are hubs for multinational travelers, it's not just Americans being searched.

I will concede to one thing though; I don't mind being patted down, if she's cute. ;)

Yea, but she has to stop at your sack. A good tug above is off limits without a male cop. :(
 
I will concede to one thing though; I don't mind being patted down, if she's cute. ;)
Maybe you have better luck in your city, but here, it's tough to tell the female cops from the males. They are not very feminine, if you know what I mean. :eek:
 
Yea, but she has to stop at your sack. A good tug above is off limits without a male cop. :(

Overturn that one rule, and watch American men toss their Civil Liberties out of their car windows. We'd be competing for getting in line at checkpoints instead. How's that for principals? lol ;)

It would be like: "Hey Richard, there's a checkpoint over there today, let's go get a jiggle on the way home!"
 
Time for a RealityCheck!

Ok guys, it is time for a reality check.

The app is specific ONLY to Orange County, California.

Although the courts are dead wrong, so far they have ruled that the DUI checkpoints are only legal if they meet very specific criteria.

1. There must be advance publicity and notice when and where the DUI checkpoints that deprive you of your civil rights will be.

2. The DUI checkpoints must visually warn drives well ahead of time via signage well visible in such a manner that a driver can elect to not go through it.

3. The DUI checkpoint must have a means for a driver to lawfully turn around without violating any vehicle code sections so they can avoid the DUI checkpoint.

In its present state as typically executed, just about every DUI checkpoint fails on all court tests.

For starters, the term DUI checkpoint was a marketing term designed to lull citizens into complacency so that when your Constitutional rights are deprived unlawfully, and deprived under color of authority, the complaint chorus would be muted. This is an identical tactic to when the treasonous California state government proposed making it illegal to talk on your cellphone while driving but the fine was claimed to be less than $20. It currently stands at about $180, a REAL moneymaking shakedown by the criminal government.

The DUI Checkpoints are not "DUI" checkpoints, they are unconstitutional suspicionless stops looking for all manners of alleged law violations.

Secondly, the locations and times are rarely published in any manner of which constitutes reasonable notification.

Thirdly, I have not yet seen a checkpoint that gives citizens the means of avoiding it as required.

Fourthly, the police unlawfully arrest citizens who exercise their lawful rights to turn around and avoid the Constitution-busting checkpoints under sham guises of evading and "illegal u-turns".

Now I think drivers so drunk should be arrested and punished just as much as the next person, but the way that should be gone about is not at the expense of citizens Constitutional rights.

But is is rather ironic that the court rulings have held that there must be sufficient, proper advance notification, but when a iPhone app comes out that seeks to do just what the court required, treasonous, Civil rights busting thugs like Democrat party Harry Reid tries to pressure Apple to not allow an app that complies. You think Harry Reid is demanding police departments stop directing throw-away tiny newspapers to stop providing advance notice? Think he's contacted the newspapers to silence them too?

...If thousands can ask Apple to take down an anti-gay app]/b] then why not a few officials asking them to take down an app that gives drunken dicks an advantage?...


Oh and to the homosexual agenda enforcer (a written psy-ops admitted propaganda manifesto agenda available from Amazon books that was created after a Warendon Virginia homosexual political leadership war conference in 1973) who referred to the app by Exodus International that helps those who want to leave the chosen homosexual lifestyle as an "anti-gay" app, a scripted homosexual agenda tactic they call "jamming" modeled after a Communist Chinese mind control technique called "negative associative conditioning", why not let people who want to leave the chosen lifestyle exercise their rights to seek the support they decide without you trying to bigotedly, narrow mindedley, intolerantly and hatefully trying to censor, remove and violate their civil rights to choose what help they feel is best for themselves.
 
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Democrats trying to suppress free speech! ?Next thing you gonna tell me is that a democrat president will start a war without congressional approval!
 
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